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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Pathetic JB3 stock turbo "melter map" dyno results :)



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      04-09-2009, 08:07 PM   #89
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I almost made this same post earlier. The same thing that he has done here almost certainly WILL be done for any upgraded turbos as well (ASR may have already been done on the max HP pass). Overall this stuff has too be done to figure out given turbo setups max potential. He's pushing the envelope to determine what the stockers are capable of and I commend him for that.

Ever heard of people clamping wastegates shut, tossing in race gas, and making passes.... well this is essentially it.

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Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
I love all the "brink of destruction" 18 psi talks. The fact of the matter is that I bet these turbos will do just fine at that boost level for quite a while, if tuners take the necessary steps to ramp down boost over 6k rpm. Mitsu turbos are quite resilient. People have been spinning the CRAP out of them for decades now, making more power than the compressor is even rated for. Is it pushing the envelope? Yes. Is it on the verge of coming apart, highly unlikely. The edge is there to be pushed, that's what the aftermarket does. It wasn't a year ago that 15 psi required race gas and was an "outrageous" tune for a lot of you guys. The number of armchair tuners in this forum with little to no experience outside the N54, and marginal knowledge even on that topic is amazing.
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      04-09-2009, 08:16 PM   #90
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I have my own ecu flash for the 335i.
Dyno charts please. Let's see how that big mouth stacks up...
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      04-09-2009, 08:19 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
I love all the "brink of destruction" 18 psi talks. The fact of the matter is that I bet these turbos will do just fine at that boost level for quite a while, if tuners take the necessary steps to ramp down boost over 6k rpm. Mitsu turbos are quite resilient. People have been spinning the CRAP out of them for decades now, making more power than the compressor is even rated for. Is it pushing the envelope? Yes. Is it on the verge of coming apart, highly unlikely. The edge is there to be pushed, that's what the aftermarket does. It wasn't a year ago that 15 psi required race gas and was an "outrageous" tune for a lot of you guys. The number of armchair tuners in this forum with little to no experience outside the N54, and marginal knowledge even on that topic is amazing.
Great post.
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      04-09-2009, 08:33 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
peep my location - homie.

I have my own ecu flash for the 335i.

watching terry grasp at straws as an outsider is hilarious though - i have to comment here and there.
How is he grasping for straws? Only a select few will be jumping on the 9ish thousand dollar ASR Turbo Upgrade bandwagon (5k for turbos + all the other parts and labor)

The ASR turbos and Canbus aren't changing the playing field for the grand majority. JB3+BT is still cheaper than a Procede and the BT Tool is handier to have than the Canbus feature.

I hate to take part in the tuner wars however I had to respond to this idiotic post.
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      04-09-2009, 08:38 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
I love all the "brink of destruction" 18 psi talks. The fact of the matter is that I bet these turbos will do just fine at that boost level for quite a while, if tuners take the necessary steps to ramp down boost over 6k rpm. Mitsu turbos are quite resilient. People have been spinning the CRAP out of them for decades now, making more power than the compressor is even rated for. Is it pushing the envelope? Yes. Is it on the verge of coming apart, highly unlikely. The edge is there to be pushed, that's what the aftermarket does. It wasn't a year ago that 15 psi required race gas and was an "outrageous" tune for a lot of you guys. The number of armchair tuners in this forum with little to no experience outside the N54, and marginal knowledge even on that topic is amazing.
+1 - Post of the week.
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      04-09-2009, 08:39 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
I love all the "brink of destruction" 18 psi talks. The fact of the matter is that I bet these turbos will do just fine at that boost level for quite a while, if tuners take the necessary steps to ramp down boost over 6k rpm. Mitsu turbos are quite resilient. People have been spinning the CRAP out of them for decades now, making more power than the compressor is even rated for. Is it pushing the envelope? Yes. Is it on the verge of coming apart, highly unlikely. The edge is there to be pushed, that's what the aftermarket does. It wasn't a year ago that 15 psi required race gas and was an "outrageous" tune for a lot of you guys. The number of armchair tuners in this forum with little to no experience outside the N54, and marginal knowledge even on that topic is amazing.
check with AA....they already blew them up at 18psi.
i think all tuners agree 15psi is safe limit.
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      04-09-2009, 09:02 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
check with AA....they already blew them up at 18psi.
i think all tuners agree 15psi is safe limit.
15psi is an arbitrary number that just seems to be taken by the crowd on here. Safe or not, tuners prefer to maintain a clean reputation in their name. The problem is that someone will go out there with a 18psi tune and stick 91 octane gas then excessively knock and blow their engine or simply just be limping and complain about it. Then someone goes out and makes a big deal out of it. Rinse and repeat.

Tuners are businesses that will do things to take your money. Edge the competition, get edged, and repeat. Old tricks in the book.
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      04-09-2009, 09:07 PM   #96
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This type of post makes it sound like if a turbo setup hits x psi, they automatically grenade. This is not true. They will spin to the point of a choke point, at which point they cant spin much faster, blow tons of heat, and yes will wear at a faster rate. But, its not like its instant death... it could take quite some time before anything happens. You wouldnt want to run like this during everyday events like heading to the grocery store or going to pick up the kids forever and always, but occasional blasts arent going to kill anything. Other factors; such as aftermarket/misadjusted diverter valves or leaky induction systems are just as likely to cause problems.

Rob

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check with AA....they already blew them up at 18psi.
i think all tuners agree 15psi is safe limit.
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      04-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayerischeMotorenWerke View Post
How long can you run this before the turbos explode?
terry says that with 100 octane, u can run this amp as a daily driver!

but he also said that if you do that: do not be surprised if not everything holds up past 100,000 miles
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      04-09-2009, 10:31 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Septro View Post
Are you insinuating vendors are charging us the 'BMW' premium?? I'm aghast at such an implication! lol
That's exactly what he's saying. IIRC, there was no price point on either the ASR or AMS systems yet. But at a $5k swag, that's definitely a BMW price (or any lux marque for that matter) which IMHO is stupid. The question will be, what is included in said kit. But that's another topic for another thread.
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      04-09-2009, 11:26 PM   #99
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That's exactly what he's saying. IIRC, there was no price point on either the ASR or AMS systems yet. But at a $5k swag, that's definitely a BMW price (or any lux marque for that matter) which IMHO is stupid. The question will be, what is included in said kit. But that's another topic for another thread.

the word floating around quite a bit is 5 grand turbos only : not tune no nothing.

but they are supposed to be custom garrett ball tearing turbos, enlarged on both the hot and compressor sides.
alot of - but not yet complete - info on the original ARS thread.

back to OT guys: imho, terry got alot of horses out those stock turbos.
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      04-10-2009, 02:34 AM   #100
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Thats good power with a nice graph but am I the only one that isnt happy with the AFR across the board. A bit too lean for my liking. I wonder what the EGT's are like.
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      04-10-2009, 07:55 AM   #101
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Definitely looks lean but he's on race gas and perhaps can get away with it (othewise it would be knocking and not making power). I do agree but whatever is happening seems to be working pretty good...
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      04-10-2009, 08:02 AM   #102
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Definitely looks lean but he's on race gas and perhaps can get away with it (othewise it would be knocking and not making power). I do agree but whatever is happening seems to be working pretty good...
Rob, isn't that the point of race gas though? We can run a leaner A/F and accept higher AITs?
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      04-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
How is he grasping for straws? Only a select few will be jumping on the 9ish thousand dollar ASR Turbo Upgrade bandwagon (5k for turbos + all the other parts and labor)

The ASR turbos and Canbus aren't changing the playing field for the grand majority. JB3+BT is still cheaper than a Procede and the BT Tool is handier to have than the Canbus feature.

I hate to take part in the tuner wars however I had to respond to this idiotic post.
once a fanboy/hater, always a fanboy/hater...simple
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      04-10-2009, 09:26 AM   #104
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yup that is some really good power, not something I would run but i'm sure it feels like fun!
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      04-10-2009, 10:02 AM   #105
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yup that is some really good power, not something I would run but i'm sure it feels like fun!
whatever the tuners come up with re melter maps and such:
whatever the max power they get with this map, i would use a map that is a bit weaker (1 or 2 steps) and use it as a DD.
when tuners push the boundaries, the consumer will always benefit in one way or another.

my 2 cents
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      04-10-2009, 12:15 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBeck View Post
This type of post makes it sound like if a turbo setup hits x psi, they automatically grenade. This is not true. They will spin to the point of a choke point, at which point they cant spin much faster, blow tons of heat, and yes will wear at a faster rate. But, its not like its instant death... it could take quite some time before anything happens. You wouldnt want to run like this during everyday events like heading to the grocery store or going to pick up the kids forever and always, but occasional blasts arent going to kill anything. Other factors; such as aftermarket/misadjusted diverter valves or leaky induction systems are just as likely to cause problems.

Rob
Good points all. Turbo's blow for a lot of reasons and if we're talking about overspinning them, a boost leak or bad BOV/DV is great way to do that. Also 18psi at 5600 (Terry's glory run peak hp here) is not the same as 18psi at 6500rpm.

Add to that the fact that better air filters and intercoolers etc prob spin the turbos a little slower to reach the same boost vs the same parts stock and you get the idea.
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