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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > N54 MHI Turbo Data



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      04-29-2009, 01:59 PM   #1
DMETune
 
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Post N54 MHI Turbo Data

Here's some compressor map data for the turbochargers on the x35 N54 vehicles.

From this we can gather that a pair of these turbos spinning at redline can produce ~1150 kg/hr of airflow, which translates into ~42.25 lb/min.



Here's the MHI flow map with efficiency islands.


Last edited by DMETune; 04-30-2009 at 01:35 PM.
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      04-29-2009, 02:09 PM   #2
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GREAT fuckin information!!! Been looking for this for a long long time.

High five!
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      04-29-2009, 02:12 PM   #3
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Can you post the pictures as attachments instead of imageshack references? Work blocks imageshack. Thx.
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      04-29-2009, 02:21 PM   #4
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It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon
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      04-29-2009, 02:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMETune View Post
Here's some compressor map data for the turbochargers on the x35 N54 vehicles.

From this we can gather that a pair of these turbos spinning at redline can produce ~1150 kg/hr of airflow, which translates into ~42.25 lb/min.

Thank you so much for posting this. This is great information to have.

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      04-29-2009, 02:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon
Thanks for explaining that to us. Great information.
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      04-29-2009, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits
Not that I know anything, but that sounds about right for stock turbos.

I don't think anyone on stocks has dyno'd much above 420 hp except for Terry who hit a peak of 460 hp at 19 psi boost. But that was only for a short burst of 100 rpm.
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      04-29-2009, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
Not that I know anything, but that sounds about right for stock turbos.

I don't think anyone on stocks has dyno'd much above 420 hp except for Terry who hit a peak of 460 hp at 19 psi boost. But that was only for a short burst of 100 rpm.
the turbos can push more than the compressor map but you are in no mans land and basicly spinning the guts out of them if you run them this hard dont be mad if:
-the turbos self destruct
-you melt an exhaust valve
-you melt a piston

I personally feel that the tubine size and restriction as well as the wastegate size and design both hold power levels in check thats why we havent seen many issues with the above ^
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      04-29-2009, 02:49 PM   #9
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Good info! Thank you! 5 Stars!
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      04-29-2009, 02:49 PM   #10
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TTurboBullett - thanks for your input. It would be great to have an upgrade option close by for the mid-atlantic states. Just hope that existing tuning options can map for it.
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      04-29-2009, 03:05 PM   #11
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Good to finally see.
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      04-29-2009, 03:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 View Post
TTurboBullett - thanks for your input. It would be great to have an upgrade option close by for the mid-atlantic states. Just hope that existing tuning options can map for it.
I can tune em w an attache no problemo, we already have(have had) a fueling option on the shelf now for about 9-10 months
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      04-29-2009, 03:15 PM   #13
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      04-29-2009, 03:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
I can tune em w an attache no problemo, we already have(have had) a fueling option on the shelf now for about 9-10 months

Upgraded fuel system?
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      04-29-2009, 03:18 PM   #15
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Upgraded fuel system?
in a way yes...look up stratified charge injection
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      04-29-2009, 03:20 PM   #16
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Thanks for the information!

is it possible to make a curve of maximum safe psi boost per RPM from this information?
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      04-29-2009, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
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in a way yes...look up stratified charge injection

Interesting, I was hoping for an upgraded fuel pump.
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      04-29-2009, 03:23 PM   #18
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Hopefully tonight I will make a more recognizable compressor map with the efficiency islands and such. I have all the data I need and have already started plotting it.

I have papers all over my desk with lines drawn on everything, lol.

At best, these things don't seem that efficient.
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      04-29-2009, 03:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits
- Unless you see something here that I don't, these claims are not derived from the posted data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon
- I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread as a clean technical discussion and avoid promoting products.

Thanks in advance
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      04-29-2009, 03:34 PM   #20
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TTurboBullett so are you saying people can run the stock turbos at 18psi producing 480rwp and be save for what 1 yr, 2 yrs ??? how long???
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      04-29-2009, 03:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMETune View Post
- Unless you see something here that I don't, these claims are not derived from the posted data.



- I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread as a clean technical discussion and avoid promoting products.

Thanks in advance
according to the posted data the OP said that the turbos were good for 42.25lb airflow 1 lb airflow is good for approx 10hp SO 42.25x10= 422.5hp

peak boost is shown in the middle of the map as 2.7bar (2.7 x 14.6psi = 39 - 14.6(atmospheric pressure) = 24.8 MAX PSI)

max boost at max flow/choke point is 2.2 bar (2.2 x 14.6 = 32 psi -14.6(atmospheric pressure) = 17.52 PSI BOOST at choke point)

once someone translates the map to either CFM or Lb/min and puts some efficiency % to the islands I can get as TECH as you want

Anything missing?

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 04-29-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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      04-29-2009, 03:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
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TTurboBullett so are you saying people can run the stock turbos at 18psi producing 480rwp and be save for what 1 yr, 2 yrs ??? how long???
those #'s are only part of the equation you need to know vehicle displacement - volumetric efficiency, boost level and RPM to know exactly where the turbos are beeing run at any point in the compressor map
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