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      10-13-2009, 02:54 AM   #89
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they charge taxes for export to EU
I didn't pay any taxes...? The package just arrived in my mailbox.

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      10-13-2009, 02:55 AM   #90
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This should be my last mod later this month (maybe this year).

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LOL that's what I keep on telling myself since March this year!

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      10-13-2009, 04:50 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
I didn't pay any taxes...? The package just arrived in my mailbox.

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On theyr site they add 20$ for taxes if you order from abroad US
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      10-13-2009, 01:38 PM   #92
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http://www.bavauto.com

Bavarian Autosport have these pads on sale for $195.45 (full set, front and rear) no coupon required. Not sure about shipping overseas for you EU guys, but it might be worth a look.

I've bought quite a few things from them and have always been impressed with their Customer Service.
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Last edited by Legato2057; 10-13-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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      10-13-2009, 06:43 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legato2057 View Post
http://www.bavauto.com

Bavarian Autosport have these pads on sale for $195.45 no coupon required. Not sure about shipping overseas for you EU guys, but it might be worth a look.

I've bought quite a few things from them and have always been impressed with their Customer Service.
AutoIndividual and Bavauto are at the same price, so one should make a price difference to get the market
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      10-31-2009, 09:46 AM   #94
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Question Pad and rotor replacement

I have been reading the brake posts for 3 hours now. I have a 2007 328xi with 53000 miles on it that I bought just 1000 miles ago. The brakes feel okay but the sensors tell me I have 900 miles left on the front and 2300 miles left on the rears. Looking at the calipers I can see that there is still some life left in the pads and looking at the rotors I can see that they have some wear. There is a 1 mm lip formed along the outside edge. I have no service history so I have no idea when they were last replaced. I don't use the car for track days or autocross, It's just my daily driver. I'm also on a budget so best value is a priority.

Question one: Does anyone have experience with Pagid red pads? They seem to be half the cost of other pads.

Question two: If I replace the pads before the sensors contact the rotor can I just reuse the existing sensors?

And three: Is turning the factory rotors recommended or should I just replace them.

In a previous life I would have just searched out and bought the best but I also used to have access to jobber pricing. Thoughts?
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      11-10-2009, 02:53 AM   #95
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Hey all,

Just wanted to chime in with my cool carbon excitement/experience. Just had the CC pads installed along with the ECS front+mid+rear ss lines. Spent a good 30 min bedding them; started with 40-10 runs and then moved on to 70-20 runs.

Observations: The pedal feel is extremely good, by that I mean predictable. A little stiffer than OEM. Also, just like another member mentioned, I have lost the OEM bite, but it has in turn been replaced with a more linear braking. After around 10 hard stops (not full stops; stops at around 15mph) I have to say I love it. Where the OEM pads would feel smushy and weaker and just yuckhhh... this setup - SS lines + CC pads - feels very confidence inspiring.

A great alternative to BBKs. For people who hopelessly give up on the OEM brakes and upgrade to BBKs, try this CHEAPER alternative first.
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      11-24-2009, 07:58 AM   #96
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Update: AutoIndividual offers a 25% rebate on the upcoming black Friday weekend (November 27-29) on the Cool Carbon pads and gives you a T-shirt for free. I'm quoting an e-mail I just received from them:

What to do:

1) Order and Cool Carbon Performance brake pad/brake pads set via the AutoIndividual.com website.

2) Add the Cool Carbon T-Shirt to your order and chose size.

3) Apply Coupon Code “blkf09” during checkout to receive the 25% discount

This sale expires at midnight November 29th Mountain Standard time
All orders will ship by December 3rd, ground shipping only
T-Shirts will be shipped December 20th

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      11-24-2009, 10:46 AM   #97
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25% rebate? That's Awesome!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Update: AutoIndividual offers a 15% rebate on the upcoming black Friday weekend (November 27-29) on the Cool Carbon pads and gives you a T-shirt for free. I'm quoting an e-mail I just received from them:

What to do:

1) Order and Cool Carbon Performance brake pad/brake pads set via the AutoIndividual.com website.

2) Add the Cool Carbon T-Shirt to your order and chose size.

3) Apply Coupon Code “blkf09” during checkout to receive the 25% discount

This sale expires at midnight November 29th Mountain Standard time
All orders will ship by December 3rd, ground shipping only
T-Shirts will be shipped December 20th

Alpina_B3_Lux
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      11-25-2009, 12:00 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Update: AutoIndividual offers a 25% rebate on the upcoming black Friday weekend (November 27-29) on the Cool Carbon pads and gives you a T-shirt for free. I'm quoting an e-mail I just received from them:

What to do:

1) Order and Cool Carbon Performance brake pad/brake pads set via the AutoIndividual.com website.

2) Add the Cool Carbon T-Shirt to your order and chose size.

3) Apply Coupon Code “blkf09” during checkout to receive the 25% discount



This sale expires at midnight November 29th Mountain Standard time
All orders will ship by December 3rd, ground shipping only
T-Shirts will be shipped December 20th

Alpina_B3_Lux
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      12-16-2009, 08:39 AM   #99
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After all the praises I got a set from Auto Individual (btw, GREAT service and price over there!!!).

Just got back from the dealer who installed brand new rotors and CC pads on the front.

The way home from the dealer is a highway, so I thought I'd do the "accelerated bedding". Did over a dozen 70-20mph stops, with the first 3-4 very being gentle and the others like 80-90%. There were some vibrations but I though this is common for new rotos/pads.

I let the brakes cool down by driving without pushing the brakes at all. Another round of a dozen stops from 70 to 20mphs and then the problem showed up.

Horrible vibrations! Just awful!!! I had the feeling my steering wheel will come off. Immediately called the SA and he told me some BS that those pads might not be designed for the OEM rotors... I hung up on him. Continued to do 70-20 stops but the vibration continued.

I drove the car for 10mins so the brakes can cool off and decided to do another 70-20 stop. No vibrations! Did another one, very slight vibrations. On the third one the horrible vibrations come back! DUH!

I did that three times - cooling off/stops. The vibrations came back after the second-third 70/20mphs stop!

What would be the problem? The install was performed at a dealership, the rotors are OEM and brand new, so are the pads. What could be the reason of the vibrations while the brakes are hot and no vibrations when they cool down?

Another thing... when I left the dealership, the SA told me the brake sensor is a little loose because those are not OEM pads. It's there, but a little loose by his words. Any idea about that?

I am totally puzzled!
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      12-16-2009, 11:33 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absix View Post
After all the praises I got a set from Auto Individual (btw, GREAT service and price over there!!!).

Just got back from the dealer who installed brand new rotors and CC pads on the front.

The way home from the dealer is a highway, so I thought I'd do the "accelerated bedding". Did over a dozen 70-20mph stops, with the first 3-4 very being gentle and the others like 80-90%. There were some vibrations but I though this is common for new rotos/pads.

I let the brakes cool down by driving without pushing the brakes at all. Another round of a dozen stops from 70 to 20mphs and then the problem showed up.

Horrible vibrations! Just awful!!! I had the feeling my steering wheel will come off. Immediately called the SA and he told me some BS that those pads might not be designed for the OEM rotors... I hung up on him. Continued to do 70-20 stops but the vibration continued.

I drove the car for 10mins so the brakes can cool off and decided to do another 70-20 stop. No vibrations! Did another one, very slight vibrations. On the third one the horrible vibrations come back! DUH!

I did that three times - cooling off/stops. The vibrations came back after the second-third 70/20mphs stop!

What would be the problem? The install was performed at a dealership, the rotors are OEM and brand new, so are the pads. What could be the reason of the vibrations while the brakes are hot and no vibrations when they cool down?

Another thing... when I left the dealership, the SA told me the brake sensor is a little loose because those are not OEM pads. It's there, but a little loose by his words. Any idea about that?

I am totally puzzled!
I'm puzzled also.
First of all, the sensor should fit perfectly on the CC pads since they are the same as the stock pads. The metal clip needs to be in the correct position on the brake sensor though.

Second, when you were doing your stops, did you ever come to a complete stop? If so then you might have warped your rotors.
There should be no worry about the pads not being correct for the stock brake system. They fit perfectly.

It also makes me wonder if the tech put the front rotors on correctly or if there was debris between the rotor and the hub making the rotor offset.

It sucks that you're in this position because no matter if they screwed up they will blame the problem on the pads. I would try another independent shop to overlook the work that they did.
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      12-16-2009, 11:48 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absix View Post
After all the praises I got a set from Auto Individual (btw, GREAT service and price over there!!!).

Just got back from the dealer who installed brand new rotors and CC pads on the front.

The way home from the dealer is a highway, so I thought I'd do the "accelerated bedding". Did over a dozen 70-20mph stops, with the first 3-4 very being gentle and the others like 80-90%. There were some vibrations but I though this is common for new rotos/pads.

I let the brakes cool down by driving without pushing the brakes at all. Another round of a dozen stops from 70 to 20mphs and then the problem showed up.

Horrible vibrations! Just awful!!! I had the feeling my steering wheel will come off. Immediately called the SA and he told me some BS that those pads might not be designed for the OEM rotors... I hung up on him. Continued to do 70-20 stops but the vibration continued.

I drove the car for 10mins so the brakes can cool off and decided to do another 70-20 stop. No vibrations! Did another one, very slight vibrations. On the third one the horrible vibrations come back! DUH!

I did that three times - cooling off/stops. The vibrations came back after the second-third 70/20mphs stop!

What would be the problem? The install was performed at a dealership, the rotors are OEM and brand new, so are the pads. What could be the reason of the vibrations while the brakes are hot and no vibrations when they cool down?

Another thing... when I left the dealership, the SA told me the brake sensor is a little loose because those are not OEM pads. It's there, but a little loose by his words. Any idea about that?

I am totally puzzled!
While it would be best to have an experienced tech do an evaluation, the things I would be looking at are:

1. Lug screw torque. Anytime vibrations set up at higher temps and disappear at lower temps, this is the first place to look. If these were torqued unevenly, thermal growth will not be uniform.

2. Debris between the hub flange and the rotor and/or the rotor and the wheel. These should have been hit with a wire brush and then thinly coated with anti-seize.

3. Suspension bushings. Things may have been OK before, but worn bushings are more likely to amplify vibrations more than fresh ones. This might not be a cause of the problem, but could be exacerbating it.

If all this checks out OK, it would point to the rotors as being the most likely problem. Sometimes cast iron doesn't get settle down properly coming out of the mold. Thermal post-processing can relax it before final machining, but sometimes this is rushed a bit too much in a production environment (or not done at all). If there are unrelieved internal stresses, the rotor will not want to stay true at higher temps. Which rotors did you have installed?

Chris
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      12-16-2009, 12:39 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B View Post
Which rotors did you have installed?

Chris
He said he has OEM rotors.

Alpina_B3_Lux

P.S. I didn't have any such problem when I installed my CC pads, but then I didn't use OEM rotors (EBC Turbo Groove) and had it installed at a competent shop in Germany...I hope for the OT he gets the issue resolved!
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      12-16-2009, 04:48 PM   #103
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I emailed the above post to Steve @ AutoIndividual where I got my pads from and the below proves their _exceptional_ customer service.

Quote:
My initial reaction would be that during the bedding or during transfer of
friction material to the rotor that the vehicle was brought to a complete
stop while the brakes were still hot. This could have been done by the
dealer prior to your driving the car. If/when this happens than a larger
amount of material is deposited in one area and is not uniform around the
rotor surface.

Consequently, when the system heats up, this deposit can cause a vibration
during braking, although this is most unlikely if the bedding instructions
were followed; however some dealers may ignore the instructions. If this is
the case than further bedding may eliminate this high spot or you may need
to clean the rotor surface and re-bed. Use something like Brake-Kleen and a
Scotch Brite pad (green is the best as more aggressive) to thoroughly clean
the rotor.

There are a number of other possibilities that could cause this vibration.

Improper installation is the first thing to review. Make certain that the
caliper or caliper piston is not binding.
These areas are covered in the instructions that came with the pads. I have
attached as well.

It is also possible that the wheel is not installed true and/or that the
rotor is not on correctly. Rust or debris on either mounting surface can
cause what you describe; also inconsistent wheel bolt torque.

Rotor warpage is also a possibility if heat was introduced to fast into the
rotor surface even with new OE rotors.

It is also possible that the brakes were not properly bled. The ABS/DTC/DSC
all work together and from the same fluid. A tiny air bubble in the system
especially at one wheel may fool the system into believing that only one
side should apply brakes to regain control. Bleeding must be done under
pressure and with the ABS valves open. The valve opening can be done thru
the OBDII port.

Do you have a good local shop that can look over your system? Dealers
generally look to blame any non-OE parts that were added.

I would also suggest that you run these pads on all 4 corners of your car or
the brake bias will be compromised. OE pads have a coefficient of friction
of about 0.37. The CC pads cold are 0.41 and increase with heat to roughly
0.52. Consequently, the front brakes will be doing a good deal more than the
rears when hot and the front/ rear braking bias will be thrown off.

Your complaint is quite rare but think that the above should find a solution

Sorry to hear of your difficulties so let's see what is necessary to
resolve.

BTW, checked the wear sensor notch against specification and notch width is
within spec. on the high side, so no worries.

Please keep us informed

Cheers

Steve
Now thinking back I had a complete stop after the initial 70/20 braking stops, however the stop was AFTER at least a DOZEN. Just had to fill up my tank as I was going on the highway and running out of fucking gas, took me less than 5 mins total and back on the highway

I did however waited maybe 4-5 mins driving at 70mph without touching the brake pedal for cooling off. Maybe the 5mins weren't enough for cool off? At the gas stations I checked the disk and it was hot, but not burning hot.

Does this proves Steve's initial thought? Improper bedding?

Sometimes I wish the damn tank was 120 liters!
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      12-16-2009, 07:52 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absix View Post
Now thinking back I had a complete stop after the initial 70/20 braking stops, however the stop was AFTER at least a DOZEN. Just had to fill up my tank as I was going on the highway and running out of fucking gas, took me less than 5 mins total and back on the highway

I did however waited maybe 4-5 mins driving at 70mph without touching the brake pedal for cooling off. Maybe the 5mins weren't enough for cool off? At the gas stations I checked the disk and it was hot, but not burning hot.

Does this proves Steve's initial thought? Improper bedding?

Sometimes I wish the damn tank was 120 liters!
4-5 minutes of cool down at speed is plenty of time to avoid the start of an uneven pad transfer layer. The discs will still be very warm, but well below the 800F+ that would be of concern. Of course, if the transfer layer was messed up during bed-in, there would be vibration when cold also even if not as bad as when hot.

The key is to not stop completely with a foot holding the brake with very hot rotors. Nothing good usually results from that. We have a mountain road near here that flattens out as it comes up to a major intersection. You can stand on the corner and watch as trucks towing trailers stop at the red light with smoke pouring out of the front wheels. In fact, sometimes they can't even keep the trucks from creeping forward as the trailer brakes don't do anything at 1/2MPH and the trucks brakes are cooked.

Unfortunately, many, many shops shortcut the bed-in procedure in my experience. This can cause an increase in come-backs, especially with cars that are driven harder. Some seem to take the attitude that it is OK to spend the time if the customer comes back with a problem, but they don't bother with it as part of the initial brake service. This is why I do my own brakes rather than going to the $79.99 guys. They've got to cut corners somewhere.

The symptoms you describe sound more related to the rotor and/or assembly technique. However, you should have an expert thoroughly check it out to know what to do to fix it.
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      02-01-2010, 11:52 AM   #105
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Just to let you know guys...

http://www.autoindividual.com/ is having a 15% off coupon for the month of February (coupon code is pano210).
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      02-05-2010, 09:57 AM   #106
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Thanks to this review! Just ordered full set for my 335
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      02-05-2010, 11:27 PM   #107
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Great review. They are pretty pricey. How many miles should these last IF you don't track your car at all? Just daily driving. Does the brake sensors need to be replaced?
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      02-06-2010, 12:32 AM   #108
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The brake sensor only needs to be replaced once you trigger it. It wares with the pad and once it gets to a certain point it closes a circuit and "ding," you get the dummy light.
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      02-06-2010, 11:36 AM   #109
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thanks dude ,, I will get mine soon ,, i like your review ...
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      02-08-2010, 07:52 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absix View Post
After all the praises I got a set from Auto Individual (btw, GREAT service and price over there!!!).

Just got back from the dealer who installed brand new rotors and CC pads on the front.

The way home from the dealer is a highway, so I thought I'd do the "accelerated bedding". Did over a dozen 70-20mph stops, with the first 3-4 very being gentle and the others like 80-90%. There were some vibrations but I though this is common for new rotos/pads.

I let the brakes cool down by driving without pushing the brakes at all. Another round of a dozen stops from 70 to 20mphs and then the problem showed up.

Horrible vibrations! Just awful!!! I had the feeling my steering wheel will come off. Immediately called the SA and he told me some BS that those pads might not be designed for the OEM rotors... I hung up on him. Continued to do 70-20 stops but the vibration continued.

I drove the car for 10mins so the brakes can cool off and decided to do another 70-20 stop. No vibrations! Did another one, very slight vibrations. On the third one the horrible vibrations come back! DUH!

I did that three times - cooling off/stops. The vibrations came back after the second-third 70/20mphs stop!

What would be the problem? The install was performed at a dealership, the rotors are OEM and brand new, so are the pads. What could be the reason of the vibrations while the brakes are hot and no vibrations when they cool down?

Another thing... when I left the dealership, the SA told me the brake sensor is a little loose because those are not OEM pads. It's there, but a little loose by his words. Any idea about that?

I am totally puzzled!

I was having the exact same issues on track, horrible vibrations.
It wasn't as noticeable in the summer weather.
My last track day of the year was last October, ambient temp was 2-5c, quite cold. I noticed you were doing your bedding in December, probably cold temps as well?
What I figured out was that the pads did not like going cold to track hot real quick. So before each session the rest of the day, I pre warmed them in the pits by driving around dragging the brakes at low speeds. Voila, no more vibrations for any session the rest of the day.
Give it a try and let me know how you make out.

Chris
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