E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > JB3 1.3 versus Procede CANbus (Rematch Review)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-20-2009, 09:31 PM   #1
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
31
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

JB3 1.3 versus Procede CANbus (Rematch Review)

I have a 32.xx software E92 6MT with just DCIs and I will be comparing the Procede Stage 1 and 2 with the JB3 Maps 5 and 7 on 93 Octane. I own both tune and a Dinan Stage 2 so I have no alternative motivations other than to contribute an unbiased opinion as I try to give a little back to the forum.

Well guys, here we go again...

In what has turned out to be sort of an obsession for me, I am back for more testing between what I consider to be the only 2 real players in N54 Tuning. Note: This review will not compare features or prices as one can argue that each tune has advantages and disadvantages over the other. The comparison / review will focus 100% on performance:

I had been driving around the latest Procede CANbus maps which are a great improvement in torque over previous incarnations. The 2-19 maps, which took down the JB3 1.22 in my last comparison, are also rock solid and very smooth but lack the punch of these new CANbus maps. Anyone would be happy with this tune.

---

But curiosity once again got the best of me... as I saw many positive reviews of the next generation of JB3s being tested and all types of 1/4 mille records being broken. Could the difference really be so significant? After all, I had believed that both tunes were close to reaching a point of saturation where no significant performance could be attained from these little turbos...

Boy was I wrong!!!

The JB3 1.3 maps are simply BRUTAL. The smoothness and trouble free operation remains but there is such a difference in how the power is delivered that it should have been called the JB4. In order to not bore the audience with the lack of poetry in my composition, I will list some bullet points as a basis for comparison:

1) Smoothness: The JB3 1.3 is perhaps a little smoother (more like the 2-19 maps on the Procede) and the hesitation in power that was present for me on the JB3 1.22 during the 4k-5K transition is vastly improved and just as good as the Procede. Also, the return of boost after each gear shift during WOT driving is a lot better on the JB3 and comes back on much faster than the Procede.

2) Lag Fix: Both tunes now offer this feature and I must say that they both do an outstanding job in this regard. However, the JB3 seems to have more aggressive timing and more boost sooner which gives you a real kick in the pants right away. For some reason, the exhaust note is also more aggressive.

3) Middle of the RPMs: Both tunes really start to shine here as the new ability to clear codes (built into the Procede and via BT Cable for the JB3) has given these guys a bigger comfort zone to work with. Both tunes been able to increase fuel delivery requirements and the extra torque is very noticeable. The JB3 has more aggressive timing here as well and begins to stand out a little bit.

4) Top End: This is where the difference between the two tunes is most defined. The Procede cannot touch the JB3 in this department. Don't get me wrong, the Procede's top end is more than adequate but the JB3 1.3 is just a beast in this regards. The tune disguises the fact that our little Turbos begin to run out of steam around 5.5K and make me feel like I am driving the higher revving M3 engines. The car is just a lot more eager to go and just keeps pulling and pulling. I would imagine it is after the shift to third gear that the JB3 will really begin to walk the Procede in a drag race. My father in law drives a Carrera S and he is just as impressed having also driven both tunes and having his Porsche as a daily driver. He told me he doesn't want to race...nuff said.

In the end, this fight goes to the JB3 1.3 over the Procede CANbus. Going from the Canbus maps to the JB3 should not feel as different as it does...but there a big difference in middle and top end which will show up at the track and on the street. Right now the JB3 has the upper hand performance wise and by a much larger margin than I would have imagined.

Terry has really outdone himself this time. Congratulations!!!

Dynos will and real world tests will follow...
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 09:40 PM   #2
possible335i2008
Captain
13
Rep
980
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: united states

iTrader: (9)

dammit i need a chip burner really bad...nice review cannot wait to go from 1.22 to 1.3
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 09:57 PM   #3
TreDirtyFive
Captain
United_States
24
Rep
971
Posts

Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (8)

Great Review...thanks!!
__________________
M235i F22: Prem.Tech.+
335 F30 MSport: Prem.Tech.NAV.+
X-135 DCT:N55.Prem.Sport.+
X-335 E92: Prem.Sport.+
Audi A3: FBO.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 09:58 PM   #4
Sniz
Lieutenant General
Sniz's Avatar
216
Rep
10,593
Posts

Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

iTrader: (1)

good review.....I'm hoping to get a ride in a JB3 equipped car Friday.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:02 PM   #5
Septro
Banned
30
Rep
1,649
Posts

Drives: '08 e90 335xi
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: C-Bus, OH

iTrader: (1)

Good review and I'm looking forward to seeing the dyno/drag results. Hard to bash a guy that has run the Dinan, JB and PROcede tunes all in his car. That's a unique perspective to which lends your feedback more gravitas.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:14 PM   #6
jaza45
Banned
Colombia
22
Rep
1,123
Posts

Drives: 2008 LSB E90 335I
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MIAMI

iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to jaza45 Send a message via MSN to jaza45 Send a message via Yahoo to jaza45 Send a message via Skype™ to jaza45
Kelvin can I get a ride someday, I have a bunch of mods that I need to installed before I do software and I would like to know what the JB3 is all about...
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:15 PM   #7
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Canada
843
Rep
17,563
Posts


Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N54tuning.com

iTrader: (88)

Thanks for write up and I am super happy the JB3 1.3 has received so much positive attention

Which map have you settled for as your daily driver?

Mike
__________________
ALL ER PRODUCTS ON SALE @ 10% OFF - www.n54tuning.com - Email; Mike@n54tuning.com
NEW PERFORMANCE LINE N54 DOWNPIPES & M3/M4 & F30 ER DOWNPIPES NOW IN STOCK - ER N54 CHARPE PIPE SPECIALS - NEW JB4 G5 ISO for N54 and F30 N55 ON SALE - NEW S55 M3/M4 JB4 NOW SHIPPING
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:20 PM   #8
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
31
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

Map 7 on 93 octane with only DCIs in hot and humid Miami weather (intercooler coming soon). Then again, I was also running the Procede stage 2 maps.

Let the chips fall where they may...
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:21 PM   #9
lawdude
Colonel
lawdude's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
2,259
Posts

Drives: 335i ZPP ZSP TiAg MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia

iTrader: (1)

What's your boost gauge read?
__________________
What do I know? I'm insane.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:26 PM   #10
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
31
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

Don't have one (the Dinan and the dynos have kept me from more mods)...
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:29 PM   #11
canrhea
Lieutenant
10
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

nice write up
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:32 PM   #12
midlife
ocasionally in crisis
midlife's Avatar
28
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: '08 335i cabrio
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ..........

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Map 7 on 93 octane with only DCIs in hot and humid Miami weather (intercooler coming soon). Then again, I was also running the Procede stage 2 maps.

Let the chips fall where they may...
terry suggests 97 octane for map 7 as well as downpipes, intake and iC.
i am surprised your car runs so well on map 7 with just 93 octane and an intake - especailly in the miami heat....
btw, if you have not tried it, you may run even faster o the lower maps.

my 2 cents
__________________
If your car isn't scary - it's just not fast enough !
RPI IC / UR catless DPs / JB3 2.0 beta / UR CAI / Quaife LSD / Snow Methanol Injection / VK oil cooler upgrade / Forge DVs /
M3 rear sway / Riss catch can / Paddle shifting 6AT / M Sport steering wheel / Logic 7 / Dunlop Direzza Z1 255/235 /
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:35 PM   #13
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Canada
843
Rep
17,563
Posts


Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N54tuning.com

iTrader: (88)

Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
terry suggests 97 octane for map 7 as well as downpipes, intake and iC.
i am surprised your car runs so well on map 7 with just 93 octane and an intake - especailly in the miami heat....
btw, if you have not tried it, you may run even faster o the lower maps.

my 2 cents
The map numbers have changed. Map 7 is now like Map 6 but with lagfix..

Map 7
Designed to optimize bolt on performance -- 93 octane RM2 or greater required. The higher the octane, the more power. -- Richer midrange air/fuel ratios to sustain additional torque + additional low end response (aka lagfix)

Map 8: -- Race map --
97 octane RM2 or greater required. The higher the octane, the more power. -- Modifications like intake, downpipes, and intercooler strongly suggested -- Lagfix enabled --
__________________
ALL ER PRODUCTS ON SALE @ 10% OFF - www.n54tuning.com - Email; Mike@n54tuning.com
NEW PERFORMANCE LINE N54 DOWNPIPES & M3/M4 & F30 ER DOWNPIPES NOW IN STOCK - ER N54 CHARPE PIPE SPECIALS - NEW JB4 G5 ISO for N54 and F30 N55 ON SALE - NEW S55 M3/M4 JB4 NOW SHIPPING
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:39 PM   #14
midlife
ocasionally in crisis
midlife's Avatar
28
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: '08 335i cabrio
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ..........

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The map numbers have changed. Map 7 is now like Map 6 but with lagfix..

Map 7
Designed to optimize bolt on performance -- 93 octane RM2 or greater required. The higher the octane, the more power. -- Richer midrange air/fuel ratios to sustain additional torque + additional low end response (aka lagfix)

Map 8: -- Race map --
97 octane RM2 or greater required. The higher the octane, the more power. -- Modifications like intake, downpipes, and intercooler strongly suggested -- Lagfix enabled --
oh sh*t, i better update my JB3 info.

thanks
__________________
If your car isn't scary - it's just not fast enough !
RPI IC / UR catless DPs / JB3 2.0 beta / UR CAI / Quaife LSD / Snow Methanol Injection / VK oil cooler upgrade / Forge DVs /
M3 rear sway / Riss catch can / Paddle shifting 6AT / M Sport steering wheel / Logic 7 / Dunlop Direzza Z1 255/235 /
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:16 PM   #15
Mote
Colonel
Mote's Avatar
Colombia
53
Rep
2,162
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 - 1991 E30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

iTrader: (0)

Great review Kelvin1000. What you're feeling is exactly what I'm feeling having just gone from PROcede CANbus to JB3 1.3

Today I filled the tank up with 100 octane and switched to map 8. I've truly never felt power from my car the way map 8 feels. Just amazing.

As someone already pointed out, you might want to try one of the lower maps. You might just squeeze even more power from your mods as the lower maps are better suited for minimal mods.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:19 PM   #16
bubbletea 4 me
Lieutenant Colonel
bubbletea 4 me's Avatar
24
Rep
1,904
Posts

Drives: Finally here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

great write up and glad you enjoy the new 1.3
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:22 PM   #17
yandy
Lieutenant Colonel
yandy's Avatar
United_States
38
Rep
1,968
Posts

Drives: 2009 e92 MR "Civic" ///M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to yandy Send a message via MSN to yandy Send a message via Skype™ to yandy
Nice review man! See you around Miami maybe
__________________
|| DCT | ESS Tune | ACM Test-pipes | AA Green Filter | Swift Spec-R Springs | Stoptech ST-40 F || || My Youtube Channel|| My Vimeo Channel ||
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:24 PM   #18
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
31
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

Yes, in the review I tried both Procede Stage 1 and 2 as well as JB3 maps 5 and 7. The results are the same...JB3 takes it by a significant margin.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:25 PM   #19
Jimmeh
Major General
Jimmeh's Avatar
77
Rep
7,627
Posts

Drives: Ms. Daisy
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldasicex5 View Post
nice! a fair review that isn't biased or paid for great job! can't wait to update to my 1.3 this week
*waits for this post to be deleted*
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzle View Post
i want to suck a fart out of Megan Foxes butt hole
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldasicex5 View Post
i hope your genitals get attacked by curious and wild flamingos.. (no, im not talking about alex and craig)
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:30 PM   #20
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
31
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

If anyone local wants a ride, a chip burned or their codes cleared... Send me a PM

Glad to help!
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:48 PM   #21
usc335
First Lieutenant
United_States
16
Rep
322
Posts

Drives: '08 E92 335
Join Date: May 2008
Location: so cal

iTrader: (1)

First off, kudos to Burger Motorsports for developing and improving their tune. It's obviously no coincidence that both Vishnu (PROcede) and Burger Motorsports (JBS) are making advances after the BT Tool was released. However, both are going in slightly different directions. Burger is using the BT Tool to develop their "static" maps using the datalogging features of the BT Tool to catch up to the PROcede. Vishnu is doing the same except they already had (limited) datalogging capabilities, but the BT Tool enhanced that. Vishnu is going in the direction of actively reading the data from the CANbus to create "dynamic" maps.

So, how do we make power and how is each tuner making power. The four basic components are air, fuel, ignition timing, and boost.
(1) Now air is the same for both tunes.
(2) I assume both tuners are monkeying around with fuel now that codes can be cleared. So there's an opportunity to make some power.
(3) Now, we know from Scalbert's testing that the PROcede controls timing and the JB3 does not (I do not mean to start another discussion on timing control, so please don't anyone else go there). All thing being equal, more timing equals more power. The PROcede is pulling timing for safety while the JB3 is relying on the factory knock algorithms to control timing. Again we can debate the merits of timing control and the factory DME, but I believe the JB3 will run closer to the knock limit (hitting it more frequently than the PROcede) so it will make more power. I, personally, prefer a tune that controls timing and does not rely on the factory DME since we are running almost twice the amount of boost with a tune. I own my car and intend to keep it a while so I'm willing to sacrifice some power for engine longevity.
(4) That leads us to boost. How much boost are both tunes running at different load and rpm conditions? You can do this by watching your boost gauge, but that's difficult to analyze real-time or you can log it. The PROcede can log boost (yes, I know, it's not in the manifold, but it's close) so we can see what it does. Let's take a look at my boost logs:

What is interesting to note is that Vishnu dropped the boost levels (at least Stage 1 anyways) on the CANbus beta maps yet most of us running it feel that the tune is stronger (that boost spike with the 2-19 Stage 1 map was due to a throttle closure that I discussed in another thread). My guess is that Vishnu dropped the boost during development of the CANbus maps for safety reasons (again, my guess is that the boost will go back up once the CANbus maps are fine tuned). I don't want to get into what safe boost levels are, but I'm always one to sacrifice some power for safety. I could get into pressure ratios and the like (and how quickly things can go bad with just relatively small amounts of increased boost), but that's for another time.

To make a long story short, my hypothesis is that the JB3 1.3 beta is running more boost than the PROcede CANbus beta maps and that is why the JB3 feels stronger right now. Anyone have any datalogs of actual boost to prove or disprove this? And no, the BT tool cannot do this because it will only show what the piggybacks are telling the DME the boost is (I'm not sure how the JB3 guys log boost -- this is not a slam, I really don't know. My boost gauge can record and replay, but I can't export it).
Comments anyone?

Last edited by usc335; 05-21-2009 at 12:40 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 11:55 PM   #22
JB335
Banned
United_States
15
Rep
1,035
Posts

Drives: 335is
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: so cal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335IS  [3.80]
^ lol. no shame in your game
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:44 PM.




e90post
e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST