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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > C&D(sedan): 328 vs G37 vs A4 vs TL



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      05-26-2009, 02:44 PM   #45
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I like this and the comparison with the 128i simply because they are taking the minimum and comparing it with the others. It's an economy camparo. At the end of the day, as a driver, you'd be more satisfied in a BMW than the faster g37.. u wont complain much about gas and lack of necessities.

It does make me wonder if some journalists are biased and favor bmw... but it kind of makes sense. It's not just about performance.

sidenote: I didn't understand leatherette in the beginning. but then I began to like it.. the look, the feel.... even when I sat in my friends fully loaded m35x, the leather seats were soooo soooffft and nice, but easy to scratch and damage. BMW's leatherette is comfy, smells alright, pretty tough surface, and has a pretty cool look to it on all colors.
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      05-26-2009, 03:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by OBI_agent View Post
For those who don't want to read the article:
1st: 328
2nd: G37
3rd: A4
4th: TL

Nice to see that the 328 won, even though they could have used a 335i and still have been in the same price category as the other cars. I guess they wanted to give the other 3 cars a fighting chance?
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      05-26-2009, 03:37 PM   #47
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SORRY: RANT mode ON! Look away if you can't stand reading more than 2-3 sentence postings.

If you're a power-head, then of course it's nothing but the G37 or 335i.
However, if you actually enjoy a well balanced controlled ride, and you want something that gives you all the handling joy that is the 3 series, then you pick the 328i.

This comparo is way out there, like much of C&D's are, but not so much about the cars they pick. They pick cars that do compete well against each other, when optioned similarly. The problem is that instead of pointing out the MOST OBVIOUS pricing differences between the models, C&D rates the cars based on what came on them, even though they know better.

The A4 in this comparo was an automatic 2.0T quattro with all the luxury crap loaded on it. For comparo sake, it didn't even have a manual or sport pkg.
Yet, it came to $47k! Well, option the 328i with every option known to edmunds.com, such as X drive, sportronic with paddle shifters, M sport, prem, ipod, etc....
The price is a STAGGERING $54,845!

This was not even close to being an "economy" comparo, witness the A4's pricing and options. It was not a equal chassis comparo, witness a mix of sport to non sport, auto, to manual trans variation.
The only thing this comparo can say, is that IF, IF, IF you were to option these cars with as close to equal options as possible, they will fall within a narrow cost difference.
The problem?
These cars didn't fit close to each at all, because Audi and BMW can be optioned crazily, whereas the Acura and Infiniti give you a lot of the extra's included in their prices.

The Audi shouldn't have been criticized for it's high price, because it was optioned as a total showing of what Audi can offer in electronic GEE-WHIZ. BMW sent the cheapest setup they could find, however, with the BEST chassis setup they offer, and that is the sport pkg. 328i with manual trans.
As much as Audi was criticized for having a high price, the BMW was almost nearly as criticized for having the least.
The TL has actually moved into a larger size class as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think Acura cares anymore about being a drivers sport-sedan.

Where was the IS250 BTW?

This review is written poorly, and very misleadingly. Anyone who has a clue about these cars and their prices compared to their performance know the inherent problems with C&D's ranting and misleading comments.
If you're going to bash the A4 for having such a high price, then mention that MOST people do not option their cars like this. And, in terms of a "CAR" & "DRIVER", there should have been a manual A4 with the regular sport pkg. that includes much of what the 328i includes; ie suspension, wheels/tires, and sport seats.
Optioned equally to the 328i, including no cost red paint, the MSRP of the sport pkg. A4 quattro, 6spd manual is: $34,125.
It's a MUCH better performer in terms of handling and ride to the 328i sport.
I've owned both, driven the new ones, and have ordered a 135i manual.

The 328i is an excellent automobiles, I almost went with it again, except for that sweet 135i.
Still, in this comparo it probably should have lost to the 328i. For the cost to performance, the G37 gives you nearly the ride and handling of a 3 series, with much greater power, closer to the 335i. 1/2 second is still a LOT when comparing a lower powered manual to a higher powered auto trans. With the manual, the G37 would have spanked the 328i even more.

It's simply disingenuous of C&D in this comparo to have done and said what they did.
Yes, I understand that C&D "ask" for the manufacturers to send them a car, but honestly, other mags can managed to put very similar cars together so that the actual "car" & "driver" as as close as possible. C&D could simply say, "Give us a must have manual trans, with the sportiest suspension you have with any options you want to send, but the cost of the options can't exceed 15% of the base cost of the car."

Then, compare the performance of the cars, you know, the things we "drivers" of "cars" would most care about. Address the options as a separate issue, and do NOT, do NOT, DO NOT, include those options or your opinion of those options in anything that then rates the cars and how they finish in the line up. If you then need to do a "who won for most/best options, not exceeding 15%....", then do that too.
But, don't be misleading and insult the readers.
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      05-26-2009, 04:04 PM   #48
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Beating a dead horse. I thought that we had a thread about this article already.


Basically it comes down to this:

1. All 328 drivers on this forum will take 328 over g37. I wonder why? Prob because they have 328...
2. 90% of 335 drivers will take g37 over 328.
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      05-26-2009, 04:34 PM   #49
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Quote:
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Beating a dead horse. I thought that we had a thread about this article already.
Show me the link to your repost claim and I'll delete this thread.
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      05-26-2009, 04:36 PM   #50
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Guys, it's not about the power and handling or whatever. In g37 sedan form, your just getting alot of car for that kind of money. That's all I wanted to share.
I respect 328 but G37 is better in most aspects.
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      05-26-2009, 05:05 PM   #51
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257888
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      05-26-2009, 07:50 PM   #52
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In that thread, there's no link provided to read this article because at that time ,it wasn't released on their website.

Anyway, thanks for your concern....
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      05-26-2009, 09:00 PM   #53
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Still, in this comparo it probably should have lost to the 328i. For the cost to performance, the G37 gives you nearly the ride and handling of a 3 series, with much greater power, closer to the 335i. 1/2 second is still a LOT when comparing a lower powered manual to a higher powered auto trans. With the manual, the G37 would have spanked the 328i even more.
Ummm.... the G37 in the test WAS a manual.
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      05-26-2009, 10:39 PM   #54
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Within the last year I sold my G35 coupe, I test drove all these cars besides the Acura (why? ehh also owned hondas, they're cool lol) but the G37 is a great car but it doesn't feel tight, its a wide fast sedan with no suspension, its an awesome car as I owned two(m35 also) but none of them felt like the bmw.

The audi is a joke, test drove it two days ago, I felt from the "performance" of the car that I was in a honda (2.0t and 3.2 were bad) and the interior was no better then a loaded camry. Just really really really nice headlights
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      05-26-2009, 10:55 PM   #55
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Ummm.... the G37 in the test WAS a manual.
OOOPS.

Sorry, my bad. Wow.

UH, don't look behind the curtain.

.5 sec is still a lot. And, it did spank the 328i. Granted, not 330 vs 230 "lot". To 100mph and the 1/4?
Were they close in time and terminal speed?
But, we're also dealing with the lightest 3 series BMW offers in the US; no power seats, no heaters, no nothing. Granted, not big weight, but weight non the less.
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      05-26-2009, 11:23 PM   #56
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i like athe e90 & the audi looks good as well
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      05-27-2009, 01:12 AM   #57
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Actually the BMW is down 98 hp vs. the G37, not 76 if you go by brochure published numbers. Long live the BMW underrating and drivetrain efficiency.
My bad, for some reason I had the 306 hp G35 motor in mind, not the new 3.7 liter. So yes, even more impressive that the 3er was only half a second slower being down almost 100 hp.

The M5 is in the shop, so I have a 328 loaner. Cruising down the freeway in sixth, I was getting 34 mpg. Very impressive. The automatic has nice low gearing, so it's pretty swift off the line. There's some wicked DBW throttle delay, though, which I've noticed in every automatic-equipped E9x I've ever driven. Wonder why that is...
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      05-27-2009, 01:15 AM   #58
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C/D ALWAYS picks the 3-series..
oh, you didn't know?
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      05-27-2009, 10:41 AM   #59
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If anyone actually read the entire article, the cars came equipped as they did as they were the only versions of the cars C & D could get from the manufacturers. In particular the only A4 available was loaded and had the auto box. The only 328 they could get did not have the ZPP and was marked down for not having leather seats.

Thanks, Mike.
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      05-27-2009, 11:01 AM   #60
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The results are not that surprising to me, in that I find a Sport package-equipped E90 a more pleasant and fun car to drive than a G, despite the power differential. The TL is too hideous for me to ever seriously consider, and who the hell would buy a $47K Audi with a 4-cylinder engine? Obviously they could have equipped an A4 to be much more competitive - in that respect I kind of feel Audi got hosed on the comparo.
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      05-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #61
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One observation here: Why is it that Acura gets marked down for essentially selling a tarted-up Accord as a sports sedan, but it is OK for Audi to sell a tarted-up VW?

The A4 is basically a 4-CYL FWD car. Audi builds a great AWD system (as does Acura, btw). But, that is not substitute of the balance of RWD.

Personally, I pretty much agree with the ranking. G37 and E9x are pretty close, IMO. I'd give the edge to the G37 on value (ok, big edge) and the edge to the E9x on overall refinement.

I like the looks and overall performance of the A4, but it isn't nearly as fun to drive as the Infiniti and Bimmer. Also, we had one a few years back and it didn't even make it to 40,000 miles before having major issues.

The Acura is pretty nice inside and has a sweet drivetrain. But, the size is ridiculous given that it doens't have that much more usable interior. The real deal breaker for that vehicle though is the EPS. You have to drive that to see how laughably bad it is.
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      05-27-2009, 12:31 PM   #62
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^^ All very good points. Also, I want to add that I never understood the "Acura MT is the greatest" or "BMW MT is so rubbery" opinions you see posted here from time to time -- even see that DenverJayhawk has that opinion about the Acura, and he's obviously a man of good taste and judgment, since he drives a 330i.

I disagree. I guess I need to spend more time with the Acura MT to appreciate it, but I test drove the 2006 TL with a 6MT and it didn't feel like anything special. FWIW, neither did the 6MT on the G35 or VW Jetta GLI or GTI or Mazdaspeed 6 or other cars I drove. None of them were "bad" but none were particularly memorable -- well, I should add that the MT on the Mazda 3 I tested was notably more rubbery than the MT on the other cars.

OTOH, when you drive a Mazda Miata, you immediately notice that the transmission feels great. I suspect the same could be said for the S2000, but I've never driven one.

The Acura TL 6MT was better than average, just like the BMW 6MT is better than average. I wouldn't say the Acura MT felt any better than the BMW.
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      05-27-2009, 02:29 PM   #63
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THe Acura style is starting to appeal to me. THe front is never going to be great but the side and rear is very striking.

Sometimes great designs need time.

I seem to recall some bangle designs were highly slammed but it propelled the brand to be the best seller of luxury autos.

The 3 sedans are very good designs. The coupe is less ambitious in its design.

I hated the 5 series when it got changed but it over time I grew to like it and am very happy owner of one.

If they add a MT to the TL I will add it to my list. The all wheel drive system they have is very advanced and rear biasd.

The interior kind of bugs me out with all its buttons. Busy busy busy!
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      05-27-2009, 02:51 PM   #64
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^^ All very good points. Also, I want to add that I never understood the "Acura MT is the greatest" or "BMW MT is so rubbery" opinions you see posted here from time to time -- even see that DenverJayhawk has that opinion about the Acura, and he's obviously a man of good taste and judgment, since he drives a 330i.

I disagree. I guess I need to spend more time with the Acura MT to appreciate it, but I test drove the 2006 TL with a 6MT and it didn't feel like anything special. FWIW, neither did the 6MT on the G35 or VW Jetta GLI or GTI or Mazdaspeed 6 or other cars I drove. None of them were "bad" but none were particularly memorable -- well, I should add that the MT on the Mazda 3 I tested was notably more rubbery than the MT on the other cars.

OTOH, when you drive a Mazda Miata, you immediately notice that the transmission feels great. I suspect the same could be said for the S2000, but I've never driven one.

The Acura TL 6MT was better than average, just like the BMW 6MT is better than average. I wouldn't say the Acura MT felt any better than the BMW.
BK - I haven't driven a TL with a manual 6 (yet). But of the Hondas I have driven with a manual (integra, S2k, tsx, late model Prelude), they all had really, really nice shifting action. I'm not saying the Bimmer is bad at all. Infact, it's quite nice all things considered and probably better than 90% of the manuals out there. But in my opinion, it's not even close when matching it up to say, an S2000. If you get a chance, take a spin in an S before Honda kills it this year. All you need to do is flick your wrist to shift gears.
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      05-27-2009, 03:03 PM   #65
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BK - I haven't driven a TL with a manual 6 (yet). But of the Hondas I have driven with a manual (integra, S2k, tsx, late model Prelude), they all had really, really nice shifting action. I'm not saying the Bimmer is bad at all. Infact, it's quite nice all things considered and probably better than 90% of the manuals out there. But in my opinion, it's not even close when matching it up to say, an S2000. If you get a chance, take a spin in an S before Honda kills it this year. All you need to do is flick your wrist to shift gears.
I plan to try the TL SH-AWD in MT form when it comes out, too. I think it will feel too big to me, but it's worth taking it for a spin.

Sad to hear Honda is pulling the plug on the S2000. I didn't realize that, and I've always wanted to try one on for size. S2K transmission sounds similar to the Miata MT, which is very nice and I can see holding that one up as a paragon of excellence.
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      05-27-2009, 03:12 PM   #66
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I plan to try the TL SH-AWD in MT form when it comes out, too. I think it will feel too big to me, but it's worth taking it for a spin.

Sad to hear Honda is pulling the plug on the S2000. I didn't realize that, and I've always wanted to try one on for size. S2K transmission sounds similar to the Miata MT, which is very nice and I can see holding that one up as a paragon of excellence.
I've been meaning to drive the new Miata. C&D routinely raves about it. I think they even said it had the "world's second best shifter" in one review.
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