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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Anyone tried a Wavetrac LSD?



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      06-08-2009, 10:29 AM   #1
jonm42
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Question Anyone tried a Wavetrac LSD?

Wavetrac had a brief post on here (which I guess they were asked to pull due to not being a sponsor) -- I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this product? Pricing is nice: http://www.wavetrac.net/application.htm

Thanks!
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      06-08-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonm42 View Post
Wavetrac had a brief post on here (which I guess they were asked to pull due to not being a sponsor) -- I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this product? Pricing is nice: http://www.wavetrac.net/application.htm

Thanks!
The Wavetrac looks like an incredible product and sounds to be the best of both worlds (Clutch Style and Torque Biasing Style).
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      06-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #3
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I read most of the "technical" page, sounds awesome. but they only sell the actual diff right? I would have to find a bolted pumpkin to retrofit. I have a '09 335i my understanding is that i have a welded diff.
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      06-08-2009, 10:56 AM   #4
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I thought a torsen was supposed to do all these same things? How is this different?

Sent them e-mail.
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      06-08-2009, 12:06 PM   #5
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The spring tensioners in the Quaife provide some biasing under unloaded conditions, but the Wavetrac looks even better. And the price is good. KMS is a dealer for them; I would be most interested to hear what Brett has to say about this unit.
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      06-08-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 335e92tx View Post
I thought a torsen was supposed to do all these same things? How is this different?

Sent them e-mail.
As stated in the technical section:

All gear LSDs (including Torsen®, Truetrac®, Quaife®, Peloquin, OBX, etc.) work in basically the same manner: they divide the drive torque between the two axles, applying drive to each side, up to the available grip of each tire. The amount of drive torque one wheel can get over the other is described as the bias ratio, a measure of the torque split across the axle.

Standard, open differentials have a bias ratio of 1:1. They can only apply as much drive torque as there is available traction at one wheel. When one wheel loses grip, the total available drive is lost as well (at a 1:1 ratio). All your power goes out the slipping wheel - along the path of least resistance.

Torque biasing differentials offer increased bias ratios over open differentials. For example, if a diff has a bias ratio of 2.5:1, then it can apply drive torque to the wheel with the most traction (gripping wheel) at 2.5 times the traction limit of the wheel with the least traction (slipping wheel). This is a significant improvement over an open diff… most of the time.

The problem is that when one tire has LITTLE or NO grip (zero axle-load), the other wheel gets ZERO DRIVE, because (basic math here): 2.5 x 0 = 0.

Lift a wheel (or substantially unload a wheel) and you get zero axle-load on that side - that means that during the time the wheel is unloaded, the typical diff will NOT power the wheel that’s still on the ground. No matter how high the bias ratio, you get no power to the ground.

During the transition from accel to decel, where you have near zero torque on the axle, even if the wheels are on the ground, the typical diff is unable to begin applying drive torque until AFTER the zero torque condition is over. While this condition is generally short-lived, the fact that most diffs can do nothing during that time means that there will be a delay once the zero torque condition stops - creating a reaction time in the driveline.
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      06-08-2009, 12:30 PM   #7
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Looks nice.
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      06-08-2009, 01:10 PM   #8
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I guess they never mention the completely unloaded scenario when torsens first were produced.
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      06-08-2009, 01:22 PM   #9
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so this is basically a non selectable locker stlye diff right? how does it effect turning sharply under accleration? im not knocking the product at all, i actually like it, im just wondering becasue most lsd/lockers like this make it difficult for the car to turn fast and tight while acclerating because it is trying to keep the inside and outside wheel going the same speed?
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      06-08-2009, 02:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexye92 View Post
so this is basically a non selectable locker stlye diff right? how does it effect turning sharply under accleration? im not knocking the product at all, i actually like it, im just wondering becasue most lsd/lockers like this make it difficult for the car to turn fast and tight while acclerating because it is trying to keep the inside and outside wheel going the same speed?
what i'm getting out of what wavetrac put out was that:

open diff - no torque bias, 1:1 ratio. one wheel loses traction, no traction at all

quaife & co. - you get torque bias 2.5:1 (the example used) ratio or whatever. once again, one wheel loses traction, no traction at all because of the ratio.

wavetrac - you get torque bias. if you lose traction to one wheel, the other wheel still has traction.

which if i'm understanding it right, sounds great. contact for group buy. if i wasn't broke haha
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      06-08-2009, 03:09 PM   #11
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Looks like a promising product.

That being said, the quaife LSD has shown itself to be incredibly effective on the streets and the track. The quaife is an effective LSD, but this seems to be a better design. The only concern is this type of diff usually requires mor maintenance...
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      06-08-2009, 03:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
Looks like a promising product.

That being said, the quaife LSD has shown itself to be incredibly effective on the streets and the track. The quaife is an effective LSD, but this seems to be a better design. The only concern is this type of diff usually requires mor maintenance...
From what I've been reading, there isn't anymore maintenance. It will be the same maintenance as a Quaife.
I feel really good about this product.
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      06-08-2009, 04:13 PM   #13
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The vendor they had listed for LA just told me on the phone that they only sell Quaife

Same thing for BOTH the AZ vendors. Looking like their supply chain is a little behind their marketing/webteam.

Same thing for

HP Autowerks
515 Fig Ave.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
805-966-3200

:/


Called
Road/Race Engineering
13022 La Dana Court
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
562-777-1522

And he said they should be available. Asked him about GB and he said ' they can be a nightmare' but said they would try to get a better price than 1295$
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      06-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #14
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Hmm...if this is all its cracked up to be, i'll definitely be checking it out...
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      06-08-2009, 04:45 PM   #15
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Response from company



>>> "Wavetrac Differentials" <wavetrac@wavetrac.net> 6/8/2009 4:41 PM >>>
Most of our dealers drop ship anyways, so we stock these diffs for our
dealers.
You can order from us or our dealers but I'm sure no one in TX, LA, etc..
actually stock them.
A group buy could work aswell, I would have to check with my boss on
pricing.
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      06-08-2009, 04:50 PM   #16
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Check! Check! (Please pass this along. My checking account balance is bigger than it needs to be anyhow .)
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      06-08-2009, 05:16 PM   #17
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so how much for the locked differential version is the question, and maybe a core swap program for reduced prices?
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      06-08-2009, 05:45 PM   #18
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I am going to have to turn this over to someone else. Howard (from HP autowerks) just called and said

a. the wavetrac unit is for boltin MANUAL trans cars only.
(so that lets me out - for step cars the quaife is the only option)
b. there will be no more groupbuys for quaife - HP got in trouble from Quaife for the ones they ran.

If someone wants to arrange the GB you can either PM me and I will give you any details I get from wavetrac or you can contact them yourself and I will discontinue my communication with them.
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      06-08-2009, 05:46 PM   #19
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so for welded manual trannies the less expensive wavetrac is a no go then
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      06-08-2009, 05:55 PM   #20
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Too bad this doesn't work for STEP cars, I was all ready to buy.
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      06-08-2009, 06:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Add1ct View Post
so for welded manual trannies the less expensive wavetrac is a no go then
I think that is correct.
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      06-08-2009, 06:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335e92tx View Post
I am going to have to turn this over to someone else. Howard (from HP autowerks) just called and said

a. the wavetrac unit is for boltin MANUAL trans cars only.
(so that lets me out - for step cars the quaife is the only option)
b. there will be no more groupbuys for quaife - HP got in trouble from Quaife for the ones they ran.

If someone wants to arrange the GB you can either PM me and I will give you any details I get from wavetrac or you can contact them yourself and I will discontinue my communication with them.
I really doubt that this is true.
I really don't see how this differential will not work with the autos.
It doesn't make sense.
AND, I know for a fact that they can also work with welded differentials as well.

Why don't you try getting this from them first instead of another company.
If Wavetrac says this then that's something different.
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