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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > DYNO Results...testing a fuel additive!



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      06-11-2009, 12:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Well again, I've never used Torco or Toulene personally even though I've heard they work, you need to use a lot of it to work however and using that much of it in your gas I too would be weary of what they do to your o2 sensors or other things
I have however used many of the bottle type additives that you find at PepBoys or the like, and those things as far as I know have never caused damage to a car, and millions of people buy that stuff and put it in their cars all the time with no issues, otherwise you wouldn't see them being sold so much.

I'm always up for to try a new product to see if it works. As I said, I tried this stuff and it worked, so I'm letting you all know.

Pyramid scheme? Not exactly. Network Marketing is not a "scheme" and I know several people who've done network marketing and from what I've been told in the past, it's one of the most successful advertising/marketing techniques in the world and makes millionaires of many people.
I tried it years ago, but I'm not really a sales guy, so it doesn't work for me.
He's a neighbor and friend of mine who is also a car enthusiast.

Funny some are worried about a 20 year old product that's registered with the EPA and federal guidelines, and has been used by millions and in multi-million dollar machinery for years, but many of you were willing to jump in and put a tunes and other mods on your car with no regard to it's affects on your car and without it being legal or proven.
I sure did with the first PROcede's and even with the JB3.
We all know those things aren't the best for the longevity of our cars and we put them on by guys who made them in their garage or small shop.

To me, trying a fuel additive and testing it for it's claims seems miniscule by comparison.
And the fact it works and has been around for years and register and approved by the EPA and federal guidelines tells me, it's not like "taking a chance" with it like we all did with the tunes and many of the mods (DP's, meth kits, etc) many throw on their cars with no testing, approval or guidelines to follow.

Nobody has to use this Syntek. I did it worked, I spread the word with the results. No biggie if you don't want to try it. But weather it's marketed on TV by commercials, paid programing or network marketing, what difference does that make?
I agree with what you have said. I for one am willing to try it as I feel a few tanks of gasoline with this can't hurt much, so why not give it a whirl? Thank for testing it out and giving us your findings and opinions, it is appreciated. Hopefully more people will be able to try it out post some findings and results, hopefully all good, but that is why they call it testing right? Just my 2 cents...thanks again.
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      06-11-2009, 12:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
yeah humidity is a factor, so are many many other things.

I'll stick to race gas if I need extra power
The humidity difference was only about 10% from one day to the next.
Temps were within 1-2 degrees of each other. Conditions couldn't be more similiar even if we were to dyno on the same day.
The humidity dropped from 80% down to 60% on the first day within a few hours. On the second dyno day it started around 70-72% and when I got home it was still 65%.

There was no weather difference to affect the results.
I did both at 9 am in the morning as well.

I've dynoed many, many times, and have dynoed with weather changes of 10 degrees and various humidity, and so forth and have seen very little change in my dyno runs.

True if one day I dynoed at 60 degrees and 80% humidity and another on 90 degrees and 10% humidity I think there would be an arguement for conditions affecting the results.
But I never dyno when it's hot. And if I did, I'd never compare a hot dyno day result to a cold dyno day result.
Just like you wouldn't do with 1/4 mile times.
However if conditions are close, or in this case basically identical, it's as accurate and fair as you can get.
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      06-11-2009, 12:57 PM   #25
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hmm. I want to try this.
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      06-11-2009, 01:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I was introduced to a fuel additive a few weeks ago that claimed better gas mileage AND better performance,
as well as a cleaner burning car, a lubricant for longer engine life, and other stuff.
I was skeptical of it doing ALL that stuff, especially increasing power, as most fuel additives do squat in that regard.
And the ones that do (like Torco or Toulene) cost like $15 per tankful treatment.
This stuff costs under $4 per tankful treatment.

After testing it's results in my wife's Prius and getting about 5 mpg improvement in gas mileage (no kidding)
I thought, ok, time to test it's performance claims.
I went to the dyno two Mondays ago with my car on 91 Octane and JB3 Map 4.
I showed up at the dyno with Mote, T, and the friend who introduced me to the stuff, and who I was willing to dyno test it for.

We dynoed my car and got it's results.
Temps that day were in the 60-62 degrees, it was cloudy and humidity was around 80% according to weather.com

I added this fuel additive called Syntek in my car immediately afterward and filled up my tank. I spent one week driving the car
to allow the Syntek to do some of it's work. I used up that tank and filled up again, added the Syntek and drove another day or so
bringing my tank back to 3/4 tank (where it was when I dynoed the prior week).
In both tankfuls I used Union 76 gas from the same station.
One week later with the Syntek in the tank I returned to the dyno (with T again helping out) to see if any gains were to be had
by using this Syntek. Temps were almost exactly the same, about 60-62 degrees, cloudy out and this time about 65% humidity.

Well, hot damn, I was shocked.
The car picked up about 6-8 peak rwhp and 7-9 peak rwtq. But that was only part of the story. There were gains pretty much throughout
the power band. Picking up as much as 17.8 rwhp AND 18 rwtq.

**Note, on the red run with Syntek, there was some dyno adaptation going on, as that was the first pull that morning. T mentioned this
might be the case beforehand. I (and anyone else who has dynoed the tuned N54 engine) have experienced this in the past, it in fact
does usually take at least one pull for the ECU to adjust to dyno runs. The result is often a not so smooth dyno on the first pull.
That happened here and power was pulled in the 5200-5800 rpm range. But regardless, it still made more power throughout the rev range
with the exception of that area where the car's ECU pulled power while it was adapting. But by the next pulls it had smoothed out a more
and you can see that it made more power pretty much everywhere with the Syntek in.

**Another note: Syntek states to use the product in 3 full tankfuls to realize it's full benefit. I got these power gains with using just
1 tankful of the stuff. I wouldn't expect it to gain anymore, but who knows, with more time to clean and do it's stuff, more gains might
be likely as well.

I tried the stuff since it has a 30 day 100% money back guarantee. But I'll surely be using it from now on.
I'd love to see others try it and do some dyno and VBox testing themselves.
The stuff is unbelievably cheap for what it does. It costs about about $3.75-$4 per tankful treatment (and it will shock you that a treatment
is about equal to one tablespoon of the stuff). But for that you get sizeable power
gains, equal to what you'd get if you added about 1.5+ gallons of 100 Octane to each tankful (and that costs $10-12) and you have to
drive to a station to get it. On top of that, it really does give you better gas mileage too (at least in a car that you don't drive as hard
as we drive our tuned 335i's

If you want to try it, here's the website to order (you can listen to it's product info video to hear fully what it does too).
www.tryit.gosyntek.com

Here's the dyno results:
Those 91oct dyno results look less than great. Perhaps you are running too aggressive of a map for your octane? Even with snake oil...er syntek added. Sorry, but the last thing I would feel comfortable doing is using questionable fuel additive in a Direct Injection system.

shiv
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      06-11-2009, 01:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Those 91oct dyno results look less than great. Perhaps you are running too aggressive of a map for your octane? Even with snake oil...er syntek added. Sorry, but the last thing I would feel comfortable doing is using questionable fuel additive in a Direct Injection system.

shiv
yes, we were running the 93 Octane map with the 91 Octane both pre and post use of the Syntek.
We knew that was not ideal and was going to cause a pretty bumpy chart without the benefit of 100 mph winds from proper air on the road.

And no offense Shiv as I've always respected what you've done (and have bought and sold many of your products), but calling a product that's made by a company that's been around for 20 years, tested in multi-million dollar machines by multi-billion dollar companies, designed and made by engineers and scientists with PHD's, registered with the EPA and accepted and meets all federal guidelines for combustible engines "snake oil" when you make a product that's not been made by scientists or engineers with PHD's, not proven and used for 20 years in multimillion/multi-billion dollars machines and companies, not registered with the EPA, not meeting federal guidelines for all combustible engines, and not legal for street use, emissions use, etc, but rather made by computer guys messing with ECU's is a bit hypocritical and downright foolish don't you think?

The intent here is not to turn this into a flame war, so please don't make it into that as I have no interest in doing so. But to say what you said, when you sell and promote a product that does much more in the affect to do damage to our engine/drivetrain parts or reduce the longevity and well being of our cars, that's simply based on trust by it's customers from a sole computer genius that you are, is plain wrong to attack any product that has the credentials this Syntek has.
I backed your product when I tried it and it made power and worked, full knowing it's not the best for our cars engines/drivetrains, etc.

Now this product actually does GOOD for cars, and environment, with the benefit of increased performance and better gas mileage without increasing octane. Has federal approval, backing, and guidelines. So if I get excited about that and promote it a bit for all, I'm sorry.
It's just very hypocritical of you to call out a proven product with it's benefits and backing, when the tunes you and everybody else make, though awesome for our performance, does absolutely NO good for our cars, it's engines, drivetrain, etc. Just puts more stress on them and makes them perform at levels it's engineers and scientists intended for them not too.

That being said, I still use the tunes, as the power increase is awesome.
I'll use this Syntek too, as it's benefits are awesome, and if there is any drawback it hasn't been seen in 20 years apparently and if so, surely the EPA wouldn't back it.
Unlike Torco/Toulene and so forth that increase octane and heat in your car and leave signs of it's use on your tailpipes, Syntek apparently does not of that. They actually say you'll notice LESS of the black stuff on your tailpipes as the gas will burner cleaner with it, and not as hot.
So you won't get your warranty voided for using it, there is no detection of it, and you don't have to remove the Syntek to take the car in for service either.
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      06-11-2009, 01:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotios335i View Post
hmm. I want to try this.
Go for it.
Personally, like I said, I'd like to see more people test it.
Do a before and after dyno like it did and see if you get improved results.
Just be sure to dyno with the same gas from the same station.
Go at the same time of day each time and hopefully conditions are within 5 degrees of each other.

Also, if you have a normal "commuter" car that you (or a wife/gf) drive normally and consistently everyday to work or school and back, test the gas mileage claim too.
I couldn't test that claim in the BMW simply because the BMW is driven differently all the time. Some times I drive it lightly, other times hard.
So it's not consistent to accurately check gas mileage.

But a normal car that is driven to work and back everyday on the same road and same routes, with the same driving techniques and habits will usually give you a consistent MPG reading. So if you know you get 25 mpg pretty consistently in that car (or say 23 mpg if you run the a/c) give it a shot in a few tankfuls.

I'm interested to see more results too. Can only give me, and others piece of mind.
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      06-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #29
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Great read Michael! I can attest for your consistent dyno numbers so seeing these results are pretty much proof that it works. Might have to give this stuff a try!
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      06-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #30
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      06-11-2009, 01:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
yes, we were running the 93 Octane map with the 91 Octane both pre and post use of the Syntek.
We knew that was not ideal and was going to cause a pretty bumpy chart without the benefit of 100 mph winds from proper air on the road.

And no offense Shiv as I've always respected what you've done (and have bought and sold many of your products), but calling a product that's made by a company that's been around for 20 years, tested in multi-million dollar machines by multi-billion dollar companies, designed and made by engineers and scientists with PHD's, registered with the EPA and accepted and meets all federal guidelines for combustible engines "snake oil" when you make a product that's not been made by scientists or engineers with PHD's, not proven and used for 20 years in multimillion/multi-billion dollars machines and companies, not registered with the EPA, not meeting federal guidelines for all combustible engines, and not legal for street use, emissions use, etc, but rather made by computer guys messing with ECU's is a bit hypocritical and downright foolish don't you think?

The intent here is not to turn this into a flame war, so please don't make it into that as I have no interest in doing so. But to say what you said, when you sell and promote a product that does much more in the affect to do damage to our engine/drivetrain parts or reduce the longevity and well being of our cars, that's simply based on trust by it's customers from a sole computer genius that you are, is plain wrong to attack any product that has the credentials this Syntek has.
I backed your product when I tried it and it made power and worked, full knowing it's not the best for our cars engines/drivetrains, etc.

Now this product actually does GOOD for cars, and environment, with the benefit of increased performance and better gas mileage without increasing octane. Has federal approval, backing, and guidelines. So if I get excited about that and promote it a bit for all, I'm sorry.
It's just very hypocritical of you to call out a proven product with it's benefits and backing, when the tunes you and everybody else make, though awesome for our performance, does absolutely NO good for our cars, it's engines, drivetrain, etc. Just puts more stress on them and makes them perform at levels it's engineers and scientists intended for them not too.

That being said, I still use the tunes, as the power increase is awesome.
I'll use this Syntek too, as it's benefits are awesome, and if there is any drawback it hasn't been seen in 20 years apparently and if so, surely the EPA wouldn't back it.
Unlike Torco/Toulene and so forth that increase octane and heat in your car and leave signs of it's use on your tailpipes, Syntek apparently does not of that. They actually say you'll notice LESS of the black stuff on your tailpipes as the gas will burner cleaner with it, and not as hot.
So you won't get your warranty voided for using it, there is no detection of it, and you don't have to remove the Syntek to take the car in for service either.

ZING!
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      06-11-2009, 01:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mote View Post
Great read Michael! I can attest for your consistent dyno numbers so seeing these results are pretty much proof that it works. Might have to give this stuff a try!
Thanks Mario.
Yeah it was a good test.
There are always naysayers, what can you do.
The fact your car picked up 30 rwhp by changing out the plugs, well, I wouldn't be surprised if people doubted that too.
I wanted to try those cooler plugs in my car and test that too.
But T did it in another car and didn't get the results he'd hoped for.
But even if I did test the plugs and got more power, I wonder how many would say, "I wouldn't use those plugs, etc etc" and whatever.

Testing sh1t out is fun. Getting good results is always nice.

Yeah, give the Syntek a shot.
Would be interesting for you to do a before and after dyno too, see if it made any difference in a car that's over 400 rwhp already.

You still running straight 100 Octane?
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      06-11-2009, 02:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Thanks Mario.
Yeah it was a good test.
There are always naysayers, what can you do.
The fact your car picked up 30 rwhp by changing out the plugs, well, I wouldn't be surprised if people doubted that too.
I wanted to try those cooler plugs in my car and test that too.
But T did it in another car and didn't get the results he'd hoped for.
But even if I did test the plugs and got more power, I wonder how many would say, "I wouldn't use those plugs, etc etc" and whatever.

Testing sh1t out is fun. Getting good results is always nice.

Yeah, give the Syntek a shot.
Would be interesting for you to do a before and after dyno too, see if it made any difference in a car that's over 400 rwhp already.

You still running straight 100 Octane?
Yeah, I'm certain people doubted it. But the proof was right there in front of our eyes! You don't just gain 30whp more out of thin air! LOL

It seems our engines are very temperamental when it comes to making power. Even the most moderate of changes/additions (octane, additives, plugs, etc.) seem to have noticeable impacts on horsepower and performance! And only the dyno has the answers to our questions!

I'm on 91 octane at the moment. Going to be ordering some VP race gas containers and keeping it in the garage for when the mood strikes me (and that's quite often)
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      06-11-2009, 02:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
yeah humidity is a factor, so are many many other things.

I'll stick to race gas if I need extra power


Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
You're gonna be slapping your troubles away with the slapchop
You'll love my nuts...



And no I will not use your pyramid scam additive... Thanks though
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      06-11-2009, 02:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flem View Post




You'll love my nuts...



And no I will not use your pyramid scam additive... Thanks though
Well, it's not MY additive.
And though Syntek hired a company call syntekglobal to do it's marketing via network marketing, how is that a "scam"?

It's just a marketing venue. No different than advertising on TV, infomercials, commercials, bill boards, whatever, except they hire people to market it for them (and pay them for it on a commission basis), instead of paying the big corporations big dollars to advertise.
Again, not my deal, but definitely not a "scam" and it doesn't take away from what the product does in the slightest.

Some of the best products out there are available through network marketing. And I know 2 or 3 people who do it, and some do VERY well.
Network marketing is essentially a sales job. They make millionaires out of some people and others do very well with it. Far better than car sales, or many other types of sales.
Again, certainly nothing wrong with it, and certainly no "scam" if you knew anything about marketing.
Pyramid "scams" were present many years ago, but they were exactly that, scams. Those are illegal now and have been for years, and people often mistakenly think network marketing is that. It's not.
There are thousands of companies who use network marketing to promote their products. If the products don't work, people don't buy it, it's that simple, regardless of the form of marketing they choose.

I personally kind of like the idea of network marketing, it keeps a lot of money out of big businesses and gives the workers the opportunity to make a lot of money if they are into selling and are good at it.
I don't mind supporting people who do choose to use network marketing, as long as the stuff works as advertised, otherwise I won't use it. Nice to know I can put some money in a friends or relatives pocket while getting something I want that works well.
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      06-11-2009, 02:41 PM   #36
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From Syntek's FAQ:

Furthermore, the product has been evaluated by, and is registered with, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

FWIW:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/05/04464.pdf

"Aftermarket fuel additives and devices advertised to increase vehicle fuel economy
and/or reduce vehicle emissions may claim to have U. S. Environmental Protection
Agency (EPA) approval. EPA, however, does not approve, certify, endorse or
register these products."

Someone with more time than I can check out the Federal Register. I didn't see it listed anywhere in the above document.
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      06-11-2009, 02:50 PM   #37
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Nice find

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
FWIW:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/05/04464.pdf

"Aftermarket fuel additives and devices advertised to increase vehicle fuel economy
and/or reduce vehicle emissions may claim to have U. S. Environmental Protection
Agency (EPA) approval. EPA, however, does not approve, certify, endorse or
register these products."

Someone with more time than I can check out the Federal Register. I didn't see it listed anywhere in the above document.
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      06-11-2009, 02:54 PM   #38
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Unfortunately, your posts ooze --> Amway.
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      06-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
Unfortunately, your posts ooze --> Amway
EXACTLY...

You highly tout a product that "isn't yours"... And fervently defend it when someone questions the legitimacy of it...

Seems like a sales pitch to me...
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      06-11-2009, 02:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Pyramid "scams" were present many years ago, but they were exactly that, scams. Those are illegal now and have been for years, and people often mistakenly think network marketing is that.
A little OT but pyramid scheme's are still around...

eg. Amway Global
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      06-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
From Syntek's FAQ:

Furthermore, the product has been evaluated by, and is registered with, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

FWIW:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/05/04464.pdf

"Aftermarket fuel additives and devices advertised to increase vehicle fuel economy
and/or reduce vehicle emissions may claim to have U. S. Environmental Protection
Agency (EPA) approval. EPA, however, does not approve, certify, endorse or
register these products."

Someone with more time than I can check out the Federal Register. I didn't see it listed anywhere in the above document.

That is interesting to be sure.
What they go on to say is that they don't approve of them nor register, but they do actually test them on a voluntary basis when the company applies for it. Wonder why the EPA apparently gives out registration numbers then?

On a similiar note, this wouldn't surprise me.
Just like those human additives you take to bulk up, increase stamina, energy and the like is not approved by the FDA either. But millions and millions take those pills, powder, and drinks (even professional athletes) and they swear by them as working great.

I myself have tried and used some of those protein powder shakes and other of those non FDA approved things. Many actually do work.
I tried a performance drink one day when I was fighting to stay awake and it kept me up half the night.

So again, they state they have EPA registration and have a number for it, (I could call and check) they must of had the EPA evaluate it. But either way, just like everything else we add onto our cars, or put in our gas tanks or Slick 50 oil type additives...we do so knowing they may or may not work and trust on personal reviews to see if they really do.
And again, this Syntek stuff I tested, and it worked for me! Better than I can say about many of those other over the counter additives, (like STP Gas Treatments, and 104 Octane Booster) and so forth that I've tried in the past and it's done nothing.
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      06-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flem View Post
EXACTLY...

You highly tout a product that "isn't yours"... And fervently defend it when someone questions the legitimacy of it...

Seems like a sales pitch to me...
The only reason I'm defending it is simple, it worked for me.
I don't care if people want to try it or not.
I tried it, did my own little independent tests and got good results.
I came on here to spread that news, as I've done with every other "test" I've done, regardless of it was PROcede vs JB or whatever else.

People try and use Torco and Toulene and Meth kits and all the crap all the time. All of which are expensive and risky, and not legal for street use, and if they get good results they rave about it.
If they get bad results, they rant about it.

This is no different. Worked for me, got power in the BMW, got better gas mileage in the Prius.
What else can I say?

I also defended the PROcede when it first came out and many of the members on here wouldn't trust it on their cars.
Same goes with the JuiceBox.

I'm not privy about Amway being a scheme.
I don't even know if they are still around, but if they are, clearly they aren't doing it illegally or they'd be shut down.

**Edit, well clearly Amway is still around, they have their name on the Orlando Magic's stadium.
So clearly they are not a "scheme" or a "scam" as you wrongfully and uninformatively mentioned.

Last edited by Driver72; 06-11-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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      06-11-2009, 03:09 PM   #43
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Wonder why the EPA apparently gives out registration numbers then?
It's not really my baliwick but I suspect it means when a product is tested, the test results are assigned a number with the Federal Register. Perhaps another lawyer such as Bubbles could provide enlightenment.
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      06-11-2009, 03:10 PM   #44
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That is interesting to be sure.
On a similiar note, this wouldn't surprise me.
Just like those human additives you take to bulk up, increase stamina, energy and the like is not approved by the FDA either. But millions and millions take those pills, powder, and drinks (even professional athletes) and they swear by them as working great.

I myself have tried and used some of those protein powder shakes and other of those non FDA approved things. Many actually do work.
I tried a performance drink one day when I was fighting to stay awake and it kept me up half the night.
I have to agree with you 100% on that point there sir!
There is nothing better than some bulgarian testosterone/estogen blockers and creatine to size up for summer! That stuff works wonders and like Driver said is not approved by the FDA
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