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      06-11-2009, 04:09 AM   #1
Beejay
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Angry Dealer tries to screw us on trade-in

Here's a curly one to sink your teeth in:
We ordered a 320d in February. The car we trade in was valued at $7000 at the time. The 320d has now arrived in Australia and the dealer asked us to bring the trade-in in to check whether it's still ok. We did so last Saturday, and were advised by the sales guy that 'that's fine, nothing has changed'.
So far, so good.
Today we get a call and get told by the dealer that they now valued our car (in absence, I guess) as fetching $5500.
Of course, we're gobsmacked. The valuation back in February was already pretty meagre and we only accepted that in the context of the overall deal. To see the dealer now use the imminent delivery to push the value of our trade-in down is pretty low (although, some may argue, in character for a car dealer).
Glass's guide via NRMA Car Wise creates a valuation certificate for our car where it puts the trade-in value as $10,700. Just to give you an idea of what stunt the dealer tries to pull. Anybody out there who has lived through such an experience? Of course the contract bristles with 'out' clauses for the dealer, but excludes just about any means to rescind for the purchaser (although the Department of Fair Trading may have something to say about that). What would you do in this situation. Any comment appreciated.
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Last edited by Beejay; 06-11-2009 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Grammar and spelling
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      06-11-2009, 04:29 AM   #2
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I am speechless...

This is just downright rude. Even the "inspection", I have never heard of this before, and most of the dealers I have dealt with have been gentlemen and honoured their trade-in agreements. You aren't buying some Hyundai or other commodity car, someone has stuffed up along the way and they are trying to make you pay.

basically I would tell them that varying the financial part of the agreement, should allow you to get out too. They are robbing you blind, and I would use everything at my disposal to take back control of this situation, esp using Fair Trading dept, NRMA, etc. I would be making LOTS of noise about this one...

I also think that the communication you received at the inspection of "that's fine, nothing's changed" would be a verbal agreement/contract in my book. I am not a lawyer... perhaps someone who is more versed in this could chime in...

Basically I would self combust if this happened to me
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      06-11-2009, 05:25 AM   #3
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It really makes no sense. The only possible explaination would be if there is some issue with the condition of your car. As you said the inspection was fine.
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      06-11-2009, 05:35 AM   #4
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^^ that or remember that the market has changed dramatically since febuary. Cars are worth a lot less in trade in as the economy tumbles. At least it is like this in the states.
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      06-11-2009, 06:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieA View Post
I am speechless...

This is just downright rude. Even the "inspection", I have never heard of this before, and most of the dealers I have dealt with have been gentlemen and honoured their trade-in agreements. You aren't buying some Hyundai or other commodity car, someone has stuffed up along the way and they are trying to make you pay.

basically I would tell them that varying the financial part of the agreement, should allow you to get out too. They are robbing you blind, and I would use everything at my disposal to take back control of this situation, esp using Fair Trading dept, NRMA, etc. I would be making LOTS of noise about this one...

I also think that the communication you received at the inspection of "that's fine, nothing's changed" would be a verbal agreement/contract in my book. I am not a lawyer... perhaps someone who is more versed in this could chime in...

Basically I would self combust if this happened to me
Thanks for the shared rage - whoever I talk to just shake their head in disbelief...

Quote:
some issue with the condition of your car
Other than having about 1500 km more on the clock (we don't drive that much...), it's exactly the same car

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Cars are worth a lot less in trade in as the economy tumbles
I'd agree to that (and maybe add it's a Holden so the GM bancrupcy doesn't really help) but all this should be reflected in valuations available from Glass/Red Book, where Red Book pretty much agrees with the initial valuation, and Glass puts it on quite a bit more, as mentioned.

I just don't get what the dealer hopes to gain from trying to squeeze us for $1500. It's not like there's no other BMW dealers in town where I could get the thing serviced, and surely a bit of negative advertising does them a lot more damage in a hurry than that piddly amount.
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      06-11-2009, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDummy View Post
^^ that or remember that the market has changed dramatically since febuary. Cars are worth a lot less in trade in as the economy tumbles. At least it is like this in the states.

If thats the case, BMW should only make the offer as an "Estimate", rather than offering a contract for the change-over cost (Assuming that is how the deal was done). I have a copy of the BMW purchase contract and I don't understand how they could state deteriorated market conditions as a reason for changing the trade-in value.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for Beejay to send an email requesting the reason for the change in value. If they reply by phone, he should insist they send the response by email or other written form. Then he can investigate whether the reason is within the terms of the contract.
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      06-11-2009, 07:43 AM   #7
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How would it go if I agreed to buy a house, then by end of the settlement period I told the vendor I wanted a 10% discount because the market had fallen since I closed the deal.
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      06-11-2009, 07:50 AM   #8
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i would get their reasoning behind the 1500 drop in writing, and also the most recent "inspection" in writing as well paraphrasing the outcome of your conversation.
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      06-11-2009, 05:43 PM   #9
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Totally sucks but I think that if you look at your contract, it will state the trade in valuation is only an estimate and not binding. I'd be more upset they gave you verbal acceptance when they re-evaluated the car and now not honoring that. And for $1500 !!! .... give me a break. It's hardly worth arguing about. They have already lost that much in your good will and customer satisfaction just by telling you that.

I'd stay form and not pay the extra $1500. Good luch with sorting this out.
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      06-11-2009, 08:48 PM   #10
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Just go back to them and state that due to the GFC the value on new vehicles have dropped therefore the I am only willing to pay true market value on the 320d of 1500.00 less the the quoted price


If it were me walk away go to another dealer
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      06-11-2009, 08:56 PM   #11
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please tell us which dealer you got this sh!t from and we'll be sure to avoid them in future
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      06-12-2009, 12:14 AM   #12
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What a bitch...

What car is it that u r trading in?
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      06-12-2009, 01:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay View Post
all this should be reflected in valuations available from Glass/Red Book, where Red Book pretty much agrees with the initial valuation, and Glass puts it on quite a bit more, as mentioned.
Not really. This is where it gets confusing for buyers and Glasses/Redbook should be off the market as they confuse the whole issue when it comes to buying cars from dealers.
Lets get one thing straight, dealers dont use Glasses/Redbook they use valuers to put a price on your trade.
The valuers will put a price on it based on age, klm's, cond, spend to get fixed and the what is going on in the market at that time. e.g what is selling and so forth.

Glasses/Redbook have never bought a car and never will buy a car, so how can they tell you how much they want to pay for your car??? Silly really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay View Post
I just don't get what the dealer hopes to gain from trying to squeeze us for $1500. It's not like there's no other BMW dealers in town where I could get the thing serviced, and surely a bit of negative advertising does them a lot more damage in a hurry than that piddly amount.
This is true. At the end of the day you have a contract of sale and this will say the exact amounts on it.
The market has shifted a lot since Feb and yes your trade could possibly be worth less in the eyes of a valuer, but unless you have a 'subject to' in the special conditions, your agreed price should stand.

A word of advice here though, when negotiating a deal which is a factory order you should put all the cards on the table and ask the consultant if they are going to hold the price of the trade until the hand over date.

Good luck with it
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      06-12-2009, 01:36 AM   #14
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Walk away and go to a different dealer.
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      06-12-2009, 02:06 AM   #15
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Thanks all for the comments or suggestions. We have yet to hear back from the dealer after we told him yesterday to go back to his management and sort this out to stand the way it was originally agreed.
Some thoughts on the comments made:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
If thats the case, BMW should only make the offer as an "Estimate", rather than offering a contract for the change-over cost (Assuming that is how the deal was done). I have a copy of the BMW purchase contract and I don't understand how they could state deteriorated market conditions as a reason for changing the trade-in value.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for Beejay to send an email requesting the reason for the change in value. If they reply by phone, he should insist they send the response by email or other written form. Then he can investigate whether the reason is within the terms of the contract.
Of course the change in contract would have to be in writing. At the moment the contract of sale states under "Terms of Settlement" the registration, build year and type of vehicle we trade in, and next to it the figure of $7000.

Quote:
...and also the most recent "inspection" in writing ...
Quote:
...your trade could possibly be worth less in the eyes of a valuer...
The thing is, there was no recent inspection per se. The sales guy who we met last Saturday said that the valuer was not in, had a brief look at the car, then said this should be all ok and we'd have the new one in the very near future

Quote:
if you look at your contract, it will state the trade in valuation is only an estimate and not binding.
Quote:
but unless you have a 'subject to' in the special conditions, your agreed price should stand.
It doesn't state that as such. However, in the fine print of the contract it states the following:
Clause 1 (a) "The total price payable is the Contract Price of the Goods... based upon existing costs and circumstances. If there is a change in those costs and circumstances <the dealer> may alter the Total Price payable to reflect such change (including varying the trade-in allowance included therein) in which event the customer may rescind this contract by notice in writing to <the dealer>..."
Clause 1 (i) then states, peculiarly "The contract is one which the customer cannot rescind under clause 1(a) above"
That last clause would be of interest for the Department of Fair Trading if it would come to that, I believe.

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If it were me walk away go to another dealer
Quote:
Walk away and go to a different dealer.
Well, we've got a $5k deposit down so that wouldn't really work out.

Quote:
ask the consultant if they are going to hold the price of the trade until the hand over date
We asked that and he said in Feb that at the most, unless something drastic happens to the car, there would be a couple of hundred dollars in it.

Quote:
What car is it that u r trading in?
2000 Holden Vectra CD hatch V6 JSII, 74901km on the clock. Full service history. Mint condition, a couple of scratches aside.

Quote:
please tell us which dealer you got this sh!t from and we'll be sure to avoid them in future
Will do so if this ends badly. At the moment giving them bad press is a bargaining chip I want to retain.
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Last edited by Beejay; 06-12-2009 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Completed trade-in description
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      06-12-2009, 06:16 AM   #16
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Goodluck! If all goes sour just post in this thread, you never know, this dealership might just get shutdown like ALTO BMW. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34770


....unless its BMW Sydney.
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      06-12-2009, 06:46 AM   #17
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I hope it wasn't Col Crawford, had a similar sour experience with this particular dealership. They refused to honour their verbal agreement, took it up to BMW Australia and Fair trading with an unfavourable result.

Good luck with it mate!
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      06-12-2009, 07:45 AM   #18
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Really should announce the name of the dealership so we can black list it.

Its petty theft to do that to you.
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      06-12-2009, 06:52 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ninja333 View Post
I hope it wasn't Col Crawford, had a similar sour experience with this particular dealership. They refused to honour their verbal agreement, took it up to BMW Australia and Fair trading with an unfavourable result.

Good luck with it mate!
Oh. looks like they have a reputation? (Oops)

Will sit down with them this morning and post outcome later.
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      06-13-2009, 01:23 AM   #20
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Update from the above. Just back from the dealer. I am emotionally drained. We were told a harrowing tale of how tough it is for car dealers, and how everybody is worried about their very existence.
Kidding of course.
The manager we talked to was adamant that the used car market was 'dead', and that we should consider ourselves 'lucky' to have only experienced a 20% reduction after four month. After we talked around the edges a bit and I asked how the gain for the dealership of $1500 now would sit with the loss of future business and referrals, he complained about being 'blackmailed' and bluntly suggested we sell the car privately if we're so convinced we're getting a rough deal from them.
Looks like we're going to take him up on that suggestion. At least they don't get an overinflated gain from re-selling our current drive that way.
We're taking delivery of the new one on Wednesday, so will look to shed the old one pretty quickly.
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      06-13-2009, 04:10 AM   #21
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Perhaps they have another customer after a similar spec to yours and willing to pay more, why else would they risk losing the sale by pushing you so hard over such a relatively small amount in the scheme of things ? With inventory so tight I'm sure they could sell the vehicle fairly quickly at a higher margin and potentially pocket your deposit along the way. It would appear that they are the ones attempting to blackmail you ! I'm hoping you win.
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      06-13-2009, 06:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
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he complained about being 'blackmailed' and bluntly suggested we sell the car privately if we're so convinced we're getting a rough deal from them.
holy crap! both mrs and i swear we'd never ever buy any cars from them again, they are not trustworthy and the worst customer service we have ever encountered.
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