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      09-04-2006, 05:42 AM   #1
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Dealers (aka Stealers)

Sorry ... I had to post ....

Out of morbid curiosity I just checked my dealers website to see if they are listing my old e60 530d.

They are ... at £23,850

To put this in perspective. It was on at £24,500 when I bought it in Jan 06. I got this down to £24,000 plus a free aux input connection for my ipod.

The gave me £20,500 for it .... begrudgingly .... which to be fair is about right.

Just illustrates how these guys make their money. I think they'll get £23,500 if they find the right buyer ... someone who wants the 19 inch rims and spoiler.
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      09-04-2006, 05:51 AM   #2
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Thing is .. i bet they "will" get someone to buy it for somewhere close to the sale price too.

Sounds like a great car (well it must have been if you bought it ) and for someone who wants a 530d it will sell itself I bet .. and the add on's will only help the sale even further.

Its just one of things.

Did you get a decent deal on your 330i by the way ... I got 8% off list and a "decent" trade in for my old car.
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      09-04-2006, 05:59 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Pliskin
Thing is .. i bet they "will" get someone to buy it for somewhere close to the sale price too.

Sounds like a great car (well it must have been if you bought it ) and for someone who wants a 530d it will sell itself I bet .. and the add on's will only help the sale even further.

Its just one of things.

Did you get a decent deal on your 330i by the way ... I got 8% off list and a "decent" trade in for my old car.
It's difficult to know isn't it ....

I got the 'black book' value for my trade in and about 6% off list for the new car.

The rest of the deal hung on the finance, where I got them to match the APR I had on my original HP deal for the 530d, but in the form of a lease purchase scheme with a £10k final payment.

Net result is I end up paying only very slightly more each month.

I think I did 'all right', but in hindsight it looks as if I did rather well to get the 530d for £24K in the first place, so for that reason I didn't take much of a hit in the changeover.

I used drive the deal as the benchmark for the discount and frustratingly they starting offering much more in the week AFTER I bought the car. I think that there was a hit as a result of the 335i announcements, but that it kicked in only AFTER I signed up.

I should probably have hung on for more discount, but I actually felt like I had 'won' on the finance and didn't push too hard.
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      09-04-2006, 06:06 AM   #4
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The main thing is to feel "you got a good deal" and sound liks you did.

I know there are people out there who do not haggle and just accept the dealers offer them .. and those poor guys could be paying 000's way over what they need to.
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      09-04-2006, 06:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Pliskin
The main thing is to feel "you got a good deal" and sound liks you did.

I know there are people out there who do not haggle and just accept the dealers offer them .. and those poor guys could be paying 000's way over what they need to.
That's frightening really ... the original finance offer from the dealer was 200 a month more than I am paying ... I could buy another car for that.

The tactic as explained to me was this ...

1. Find out what the customer can pay per month.
2. Offer him a deal that exceeds this budget.
3. When the customer complains try to offer a deal on a lower spec car.
4. Sell customer lower spec car at exhorbitant price, whilst letting customer think this is all they can afford.

This is exactly what I experienced. They tried to tell me that no-one would offer me the finance terms I was asking for and tried to convince me that the best I would get for that money would be a 325i m-sport.

I think it's appalling that they do this. Like you I am sure that many people do not haggle to any significant degree.
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      09-04-2006, 06:40 AM   #6
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The easiest purchase is where you first research the costs for the car and options you want. Start at invoice and add a couple hundred for dealer profit. Maybe split the invoice and MSRP for options. Line up financing separately. Then, go in and make your offer. All they should have to say is yes or no. Yes, they have a sale; no, then just get up and walk. Negotiate with your feet. You've already done what the saleperson should be doing.

If you're ordering the car then the amount you allot for dealer profit should be less since the car won't be taking up real-estate on the forecourt for any appreciable amount of time.
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      09-04-2006, 07:44 AM   #7
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Smile

Had a classic "stealer" experience whilst buying my wife's car last year.

The dealer tried bamboozling us with monthley payment figures but we were having none of it ... then when we asked for a clearer explaination of the payments, the salesman brought out the manager .. then he had to call out the Finance Manager .. this went on for the best part of an hour .. they were clearly trying to mask over the real costs to change into a new monthley payment figure "all in".

Well, we got them to explain time after time and they had to keep on printing out new sheets and in the end, we got to a figure we were happy with and we signed on the dotted line and on the way home were certain we had "gained" an extra 1,000 in our favour.

Got home and checked and re-checked and sure enough, the stealer had tried "that" hard to confuse us, they had messed themselves up

It was great !

Anyway .. we wondered if they'd spot the error and contact us !

sure enough 2 days later they did ring me .. got the salesman to ring and explain how they'd made an error etc and could we return the forms for some new ones.

I played ignorant to the problem and said how we had completed the deal and signed everything and found their call very unsettling

He then put me though to the FD and we then discussed further and ended with them going away to look at things.

In the meantime my wife and I had discussed and we're prepared to make an offer of meeting them half way (as we still onto a winner) .. but before I had chance to ring them, they rang me and said they would honour the deal as done so as to avoid the risk of us giving them some bad publicity and they told us we had got the deal of the century !

Classic .. we had got one over the Stealer on that occasion
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      09-04-2006, 10:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Pliskin
Had a classic "stealer" experience whilst buying my wife's car last year.

The dealer tried bamboozling us with monthley payment figures but we were having none of it ... then when we asked for a clearer explaination of the payments, the salesman brought out the manager .. then he had to call out the Finance Manager .. this went on for the best part of an hour .. they were clearly trying to mask over the real costs to change into a new monthley payment figure "all in".

Well, we got them to explain time after time and they had to keep on printing out new sheets and in the end, we got to a figure we were happy with and we signed on the dotted line and on the way home were certain we had "gained" an extra 1,000 in our favour.

Got home and checked and re-checked and sure enough, the stealer had tried "that" hard to confuse us, they had messed themselves up

It was great !

Anyway .. we wondered if they'd spot the error and contact us !

sure enough 2 days later they did ring me .. got the salesman to ring and explain how they'd made an error etc and could we return the forms for some new ones.

I played ignorant to the problem and said how we had completed the deal and signed everything and found their call very unsettling

He then put me though to the FD and we then discussed further and ended with them going away to look at things.

In the meantime my wife and I had discussed and we're prepared to make an offer of meeting them half way (as we still onto a winner) .. but before I had chance to ring them, they rang me and said they would honour the deal as done so as to avoid the risk of us giving them some bad publicity and they told us we had got the deal of the century !

Classic .. we had got one over the Stealer on that occasion
Wonderful!!!! Good for you!!
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      09-04-2006, 10:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoYank
The easiest purchase is where you first research the costs for the car and options you want. Start at invoice and add a couple hundred for dealer profit. Maybe split the invoice and MSRP for options. Line up financing separately. Then, go in and make your offer. All they should have to say is yes or no. Yes, they have a sale; no, then just get up and walk. Negotiate with your feet. You've already done what the saleperson should be doing.

If you're ordering the car then the amount you allot for dealer profit should be less since the car won't be taking up real-estate on the forecourt for any appreciable amount of time.
I kind of like the US system ... but in the UK it works slightly differently ...

There are 3 stages to the whole mess:

1. Agree a trade in figure for your car. The 'bible' for this is the black book or glasses guide, but the stock response is that 'those are only guide figures not people offering to buy the car for that in cash'. The problem is also that the dealer won't share what book value is ... you need to do your own research. Plus there are several values .... good, average and poor condition, same for milage, then there is a 'buy' price and a 'sell' price for 'private sales' and 'dealerships'. In the end it's a black art and the dealers use this to their advantage.

2. Finance. This is where the dealers make a significant margin and BMW Financial Services like to keep the bulk of the business. I think they will beat the majority of offers, but you have to get someone else to lay down the target first or they will give you a naff deal. Like Snake I have found that they don't want to present the financials in a straightforward manner and they do rely on the 'boredom factor'. I also had to go through the pantomime where the salesman goes of to the business manager, who brings back and offer, then the business manager comes out, then the sales manager .. blah blah blah.

3. Purchase price. In the UK we don't get the 'cost over invoice system'. We just have the MRRP less any discount you can get. The available discount is going to be a function of how well you did in stages 1 and 2 (they get their profit one way or another - it's just 'how you cut the cake'). My starting point was to ask them to match the best discount I could get from an online broker. Obviously the stock response is - we can't match that because of overheads blah blah blah. In which case you can then haggle between that and the MRRP.
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      09-04-2006, 12:26 PM   #10
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I've shopped around for the last couple of years, you learn by your mistakes!

Years ago I would take the first deal and be happy with free mats etc.

Now I shop around and have found 3 local dealers who give the best deal's.

When I purchased my current car I had a "55" reg E46 325CI M Sport Convertible to part ex.
I had to sell it as we could'nt get the baby seat in without dropping the hood!

Anyway, two dealers offered me 26,500. A bit of a let down considering the car had cost 36,565 in September 05 and that was with a discount.

After shopping around, I managed to get 29,200 for the Convertible + a 8% discount off the e90 + an early build slot and the use of a 318d (for free) whilst my car was being built!!!

I was well pleased, and it softened the blow of the money I lost on the E46
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      09-04-2006, 01:03 PM   #11
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The whole thing with buying a car is that most of us are just not rich enough to get enough practice at it

The dealer is at it all day every day and must have all the lines about the hassle of the part-ex, diverting you to what he wants to sell and so on off pat.

If you get lucky you might find a salesman who needs to fill his quota, or even the dealerships. In such a case they can go to great lengths to secure the sale. They may even take a loss on your deal to make the bonus. A friend has just spent the last three years as the Financial Controller at a local dealer (not BMW ) and has had some interesting tales to tell.

Snake - It's lovely to hear of someone thoroughly screwing the dealer though

I think the best deal I've done was for my sister. 1st car, so no trade in helped, and we got 10% off, 3 years servicing, free aircon and 0% finance. Only a Skoda Fabia, but it's been great. I even have to admit it passed it's first MOT while the E46 failed
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      09-04-2006, 01:18 PM   #12
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What was the reason for your E46 failing the first MOT?
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      09-04-2006, 01:50 PM   #13
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Both the rear springs had broken!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27558
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      09-04-2006, 03:05 PM   #14
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I bought my new e90 from broadspeed (discount around 11%) on the net and sold my old e46 touring privately for about £1000-1500 more than the p/x value. I bought the new one outright for cash and so didn't get clobbered for a bad APR. To make things even better the supplying dealer gave me an existing build slot and changed it for my spec so only had to wait about 3-4 weeks. All in all deal went very well and i love the car also.
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