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      06-16-2009, 07:23 AM   #45
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RIP buddy.

Done several bike & camera high speed trips, very scary when you think about the 'action shot' instead of the road.... In both the UK and france we squeezed between cars in the outside lanes and the armco at 150mph+ on several occasions. I would think we had at least 1 near-death incident on almost every trip out - stuff to laugh about in the pub. The guys in this accident aren't young either, pushing their luck if they're still alive at their age riding like that!

On several ride outs I remember, when someone new pulls up front to lead, the pressure 'show off' or to maintain or increase the speed leads to mistakes and accidents. When you are regularly breezing along at at 130+, you've got no time to even blink at the wrong moment.

This biker under-took his mate off the roundabout to 'show him a bit of action' and then promptly stopped paying attention to the road. It is tragic, but 100% the bikers fault for not reading the situation in time.

Some bikers will always do this - that's why they ride bikes, when the adrenalin kicks in, there is nothing like it - flat out 14k screaming in top, chin on the tank, arms tucked in, cars passing in the opposite direction at 200mph+, its like you are in a different world, on top of the world, you don't recall breathing or blinking or anything just pure concentration. When you sit up and let the throttle off its like coming up from underwater for breath, back to reality, back down to earth!

And believe me i feel safer doing 150 on a bike than 150 in a car, the bike is so stable so steady, so manouverable and light, it just wants to go faster.....

.....This is why I don't ride on the road anymore (not for 10 years now)!! Wife & baby need me home. But I still get goose bumps all over and my heart races when I watch these kind of films (till the end of course when my heart is in my mouth)

Race tracks never did it for me, fast bikes just had to be on the road.
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      06-16-2009, 07:57 AM   #46
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Bet the camera had an effect, the ambition to look cool on video made him push a little harder than he normally would have. (ETA: Doughboy gave a much better outline of this!)

That being said, it's far too easy to reach 100 and by the time you get there it takes you by surprise. Not sure if it's the same for every biker, but I would count the amount of times that 'just a few cm to the right' would have had me at the pearly gates on each ride I would take. It only takes 1 time to get unlucky and that's the risk you run.

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      06-16-2009, 08:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
This biker under-took his mate off the roundabout to 'show him a bit of action' and then promptly stopped paying attention to the road. It is tragic, but 100% the bikers fault for not reading the situation in time.
I totally agree. So sorry for his family, but imo it was careless just coming off a roundabout. If any car is accelerating or decelerating because of the road conditions/situation, ie just after a roundabout, then that is exactly the time in to calm it on the throttle.

Still gutting to watch mind
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      06-16-2009, 11:25 AM   #48
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I don't understand how Doughboy can feel safer on a bike?????...
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      06-16-2009, 12:10 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zltm089 View Post
I don't understand how Doughboy can feel safer on a bike?????...
Let me rephrase that,

I would feel less likely to crash (thus be less scared) on the road riding a bike at high speed than in a car at same high speed (150ish).

I don't mean you are ultimately safer on a bike.

You have SO much more room to manouvre on a bike, and a sports bike is MUCH more stable at that speed than a car, quicker to slow down and change lanes etc too.

Lets face it, you crash at 150mph on a bike or in a car you're dead meat.
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      06-16-2009, 12:16 PM   #50
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I feel like Riding is a privilege...I don't understand why people do this type of stuff.
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      06-16-2009, 01:56 PM   #51
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Sad for the guy and his family but it was his own fault. To all the people defending the rider - if he had caused a pile up in which your loved ones were involved would you still be saying the same?
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      06-16-2009, 02:33 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
Sad for the guy and his family but it was his own fault. To all the people defending the rider - if he had caused a pile up in which your loved ones were involved would you still be saying the same?
Who is defending the biker? He was wreckless.

I won't defend those actions anymore than someone driving a vehicle weighing well over a ton with the potential to wreak havoc.
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      06-16-2009, 02:49 PM   #53
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At 170 mph you're travelling at 249 feet per second. That means you have to be looking 900 or so feet down the road. That's roughly three football pitches. While you're concentrating that far in the future, a lot can be happening right close by. By the time you realize it and react to it it's upon you.

A year or so ago there was a photograph in a thread on this forum of a biker, in Russia, I think, doing 170ish. A car pulled out from the left. The bike ended up on the left front seat killing the biker and both passengers of the car. The police estimated the biker never even had time to apply the brakes. No one will ever know whether the car driver even saw the biker.

I sometimes wonder what it is about a motorcycle license that deducts 15-30 IQ points from someone. Some riders I've seen can't afford that to begin with.
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      06-17-2009, 02:33 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoYank View Post
I sometimes wonder what it is about a motorcycle license that deducts 15-30 IQ points from someone. Some riders I've seen can't afford that to begin with.
I agree in a way, but its the excitement of speed on a bike that you get hooked on, the crescendo of noise & wind, like a drug it just urges you on....the adrenaline takes the fear away. That's where the risk taking comes in i'm afraid.

But don't forget for every headline grabbing high speed death, there are hundreds or thousands of riders regularly riding just as fast all over the place without incident. You just need to judge when you've used all your nine lives up, thats all.

No one rides sports bikes to save the environment (ZX10R at work does <15mpg) or reduce congestion. They'd buy Honda C90's if this was the case.

They buy them in order to go very fast indeed. Infact they are uncomfortable and awkward at less than 80/90mph in my experience. They bring supercar speed to the masses, instead of only those that can afford supercars.

Speed Socialism you might call it.....
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      06-17-2009, 03:24 AM   #55
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Well said Doughboy.
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      06-17-2009, 04:19 AM   #56
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I dont wish death upon this guy, or anyone else really (Maybe Cristiano Ronaldo) but I absolutely 100% believe this chap was always going to end up dead.

I remapped my car because I like going very fast indeed, I was only last week driving at silly speeds around the Alps - semi-drifting near the edge of a very steep cliff.

But guess what - I was doing it on my own.

I can 100% accept Motorbikes as being Supercar dragsters for the masses - but look where the crash happened - a single carriageway road, with traffic moving in both directions.

Just because a biker THINKS he has the right to slip up the middle at 100+ do you think that makes it someone elses fault?

Yeah, many motorbike riders hit 150+ every day, when they go into the Lakes with their mates and do it 'safely' where there is no other traffic and then when they come to villages, some of the responsible ones will even tuck in behind the inevitable caravan or 4x4 and wait for it to be safe before slipping past.

Meanwhile, others weave through slow moving traffic and end up under a truck who couldnt see them as they half walked between all three lanes just to save ten minutes because they thought they had the right.

The truth is, bikers undertake, overtake, weave, speed, etc etc at all the wrong times - this bloke is dead not because Bikes are dangerous, but because he was driving dangerously and one could argue, behaving like a fucking idiot.

If you wanna talk about supercar speed - if I had been coming off that roundabout in my Pagani Zonda - would I have shot into the other lane and accelerated to 150+ just because I could?

NO - why not? Because there are fucking hundreds of cars there thats why!!

RIP - but less this be a lesson to the rest of the morons out there. (Those who drive like dickheads, not all motorbike riders in general)

Matt
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      06-17-2009, 04:50 AM   #57
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I don't think any biker in particular thinks he has the right to do what you mention, he looks up the road, assess what he sees and goes for it, or not. If you think you have the right to anything on the road you're heading for trouble. (re... "but it was my right of way" said the man crushed under the truck)

He made a choice that neither I nor you would consider sensible at that place and time, and look where it got him.

Like I said, riding in groups, bravado etc, that's where judgement errors get made,

It won't be a lesson to anyone i'm afraid. For the emotional / adrenaline issues I mentioned earlier, people who are inclined to those sensations will always do it. That's why I (and the guys i used to ride with) haven't ridden for 10 years because i know i couldn't help speeding etc if i got on a bike again. There is no fun in riding if it ain't fast IMO. Whereas you can relax & enjoy trip, fast or slow, in a nice car.

Unfortunately a hell of a lot more people can afford a 5K superbike than a 100k+ supercar.... thus the statistics.
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      06-17-2009, 11:42 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post

The truth is, bikers undertake, overtake, weave, speed, etc etc at all the wrong times - this bloke is dead not because Bikes are dangerous, but because he was driving dangerously and one could argue, behaving like a fucking idiot.
Spot on. Summed it up nicely imo. To me (and i'm in the bike industry) it's like watching vids of our favourite BMW's driving like idiots on single carriageways overtaking everything in sight. We can see it's very dangerous to all road users.
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      06-17-2009, 11:51 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Let me rephrase that,

I would feel less likely to crash (thus be less scared) on the road riding a bike at high speed than in a car at same high speed (150ish).

I don't mean you are ultimately safer on a bike.

You have SO much more room to manouvre on a bike, and a sports bike is MUCH more stable at that speed than a car, quicker to slow down and change lanes etc too.

Lets face it, you crash at 150mph on a bike or in a car you're dead meat.
I do know what your saying mate, a biker is more connected to the road. More alert and intune with the road and conditions and generally make better car drivers also due to this.


I grew up racing karts so also feel im pretty in-tune with whats going on when on the road.

I would like a bike one day, probably sooner rather than later.. But it is when you get that ''Bravado head on'' which is when a rider and also car driver can make rash decisions.

Bikers will always have nasty accidents, there is no protection...

I do feel sometimes they take liberties, but thats because the bike CAN usuallu pull them off due to the power and size.


Doughboy, you make alot of sense in your posts
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      06-17-2009, 12:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I agree in a way, but its the excitement of speed on a bike that you get hooked on, the crescendo of noise & wind, like a drug it just urges you on....the adrenaline takes the fear away. That's where the risk taking comes in i'm afraid.

But don't forget for every headline grabbing high speed death, there are hundreds or thousands of riders regularly riding just as fast all over the place without incident. You just need to judge when you've used all your nine lives up, thats all.

No one rides sports bikes to save the environment (ZX10R at work does <15mpg) or reduce congestion. They'd buy Honda C90's if this was the case.

They buy them in order to go very fast indeed. Infact they are uncomfortable and awkward at less than 80/90mph in my experience. They bring supercar speed to the masses, instead of only those that can afford supercars.

Speed Socialism you might call it.....

+1 I can feel where doughboy is coming from. Even though it is reckless riding at those speeds it is very exciting its almost like a high. It almost gives the feeling of flying. I've pushed my bikes to the max and its makes you feel so alive. I am not agreeing that this is safe but I do understand what he is talking about with what it feels like. Sportbikes are made to do one thing and that is to go blazingly fast, and they do that amazingly well.
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      06-17-2009, 03:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
I dont wish death upon this guy, or anyone else really (Maybe Cristiano Ronaldo) but I absolutely 100% believe this chap was always going to end up dead.

I remapped my car because I like going very fast indeed, I was only last week driving at silly speeds around the Alps - semi-drifting near the edge of a very steep cliff.

But guess what - I was doing it on my own.

I can 100% accept Motorbikes as being Supercar dragsters for the masses - but look where the crash happened - a single carriageway road, with traffic moving in both directions.

Just because a biker THINKS he has the right to slip up the middle at 100+ do you think that makes it someone elses fault?

Yeah, many motorbike riders hit 150+ every day, when they go into the Lakes with their mates and do it 'safely' where there is no other traffic and then when they come to villages, some of the responsible ones will even tuck in behind the inevitable caravan or 4x4 and wait for it to be safe before slipping past.

Meanwhile, others weave through slow moving traffic and end up under a truck who couldnt see them as they half walked between all three lanes just to save ten minutes because they thought they had the right.

The truth is, bikers undertake, overtake, weave, speed, etc etc at all the wrong times - this bloke is dead not because Bikes are dangerous, but because he was driving dangerously and one could argue, behaving like a fucking idiot.

If you wanna talk about supercar speed - if I had been coming off that roundabout in my Pagani Zonda - would I have shot into the other lane and accelerated to 150+ just because I could?

NO - why not? Because there are fucking hundreds of cars there thats why!!

RIP - but less this be a lesson to the rest of the morons out there. (Those who drive like dickheads, not all motorbike riders in general)

Matt


+1
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      06-18-2009, 03:38 AM   #62
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+1
I remember your much talking about your speeding and street racing etc in cars, much more dangerous to the public and other road users that on a fast bike!

You should have some bike lessons, then you'd see how many dangerous idiots in cars there are!

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      06-18-2009, 11:56 AM   #63
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This road is 7 miles from where I live, and I drive it every day.

Two of my friends were some of the first officers on the scene, and I can assure you that this is the worst "mess" they have seen in over 22 years service with traffic, bad enough to warrant the force helicopter to be used with heat seeking equipment to find what was left of the rider.

The road in question was ironically until recently before the accident seperated by a single white line, before going into a short piece of dual carriage way shortly after the bridge. The road itself has been the scene of numerous fatal collisions over the years, decapitations, severe spinal injuries and multiple loss of lives. Apart from the correct overtaking areas, it really is a very bad piece of road frequented every minute of the day by dangerous local drivers and riders who should know better.

The problem with it is, that as it is more or less straight up a long shallow incline, and then long straight decline with a long blind right/ left hander (depending upon direction) going into single carriageway after the dual overtaking lanes, people arrive upon traffic much faster than they should do. It is also a very difficult to police piece of bypass and should be fitted with Gatso or Specs cameras. During a recent upgrade, it was actually fitted specs and as far as i am aware, speeding and RTA's were more or less stopped.

At the end of the day, it is a notorious local road and the biker's should have known better.

For the people involved in it, particularly the holiday makers in the camper van, it was a horrific incident. For the emergency services and everyone involved in the clean up and investigation, it is not something that will be forgotten quickly.

I will say that if you sit in the Marks and Spencer car park adjacent to the road, at most times of the day, you will hear and see local bikers and cars doing exactly the same thing these guys were doing over and over again every day of the week. Some people have very short memories.
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      06-18-2009, 12:14 PM   #64
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Great post there Neil, thanks for posting.
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      06-18-2009, 02:03 PM   #65
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Would a speed camera have prevented this accident?
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      06-18-2009, 02:11 PM   #66
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Perhaps, only if it were sited AT the accident scene or just before.

Speed cameras aren't usually sited in places that common sense would depict - they are usually sited where they can generate the most MONEY!
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