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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Father's Day SoCal Dyno Day Results



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      06-22-2009, 09:35 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It shows 0psi at the beginning of the run

Looks to read fine to me.
shiv, how are the timing on my runs with stage 3? this would help a lot for me and other people who still have 2ndary cats and if you need me to send the logs so you can have a better look.
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      06-22-2009, 11:12 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It shows 0psi at the beginning of the run

Looks to read fine to me.
Just because something starts at 0, doesn't mean its accurate.. I guess you don't have much experience using things like scales or anything that requires to be recalibrated every so often.
Like putting on big wheels on a car, your speedometer might read the mph higher or lower than the actual value .. but since it starts at 0... does that mean its accurate?
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      06-22-2009, 12:22 PM   #47
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LOL for comment on Shiv....

Shiv

Did you read the book about dyno's before or after you developed the procede? :-D
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      06-22-2009, 12:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brusso View Post
I don't know what these procede guys are thinking..... INJEN INTAKE !!!! CRAP .... HKS BOV !!!! CRAP.... AND BOTH ARE PROVEN TO KILL POWER !!! bov is probably losing boost.

Great numbers for the jb3 juys btw....
I don't see them losing as much power if any than the crappy stock diverter valves. Some people are just biased towards bovs because they don't think they belong on a BMW. Bov have been on high hp cars for years with no issues, now thats its on a bmw its prone to leakage and not worthy.
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      06-22-2009, 12:30 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rismo123 View Post
LOL for comment on Shiv....

Shiv

Did you read the book about dyno's before or after you developed the procede? :-D
Haha that actually made me LOL.
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      06-22-2009, 08:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTwinz View Post
I guess you don't have much experience using things like scales or anything that requires to be recalibrated every so often.
I am game to discuss pressure calibration factors as well as how they apply to measuring manifold pressure. In this case, you have a PROcede log which cooresponds to the dyno. If the DME/Piggy is reading the same sensor, and it cooresponds to what the dyno is reading, what is the accuracy issue?

Do not assume the dyno boost measurements were incorrect; verify they were incorrect. You should assume they were correct and then determine otherwise. Just FYI...
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      06-22-2009, 08:45 PM   #51
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I am game to discuss pressure calibration factors as well as how they apply to measuring manifold pressure. In this case, you have a PROcede log which cooresponds to the dyno. If the DME/Piggy is reading the same sensor, and it cooresponds to what the dyno is reading, what is the accuracy issue?

Do not assume the dyno boost measurements were incorrect; verify they were incorrect. You should assume they were correct and then determine otherwise. Just FYI...
That's the thing, the Procede logs do not correspond with the dynojet numbers: Dynojet measured the runs 15.67, 15.48, 14.14PSI respectively, but the V3 data logs measured 14.5, 14.2, 13.2PSI.
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      06-22-2009, 08:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTwinz View Post
Just because something starts at 0, doesn't mean its accurate.. I guess you don't have much experience using things like scales or anything that requires to be recalibrated every so often.
Like putting on big wheels on a car, your speedometer might read the mph higher or lower than the actual value .. but since it starts at 0... does that mean its accurate?
To calibrate the MAP sensor in the Dynojet software, you simply input calibration values at different points in the 0-5v response curve. If this wasn't done by the dyno operator, it wouldn't read 0psi at the beginning of the run (before boost was built). The likelihood of it reading correctly at atmospheric pressure and not under boost would require some pretty thoughtful (and purposeful) miscalibration.

But thanks for the time you took to write your response.

And FWIW, there will aways be some disparity between TMAP readings (from PROcede software) and MAP readings (from the manifold) since there is a activethrottle body in between them. Not to mention the fact that they are inevitably calibrated differently.

Cheers,
Shiv
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      06-22-2009, 08:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xs***** View Post
That's the thing, the Procede logs do not correspond with the dynojet numbers: Dynojet measured the runs 15.67, 15.48, 14.14PSI respectively, but the V3 data logs measured 14.5, 14.2, 13.2PSI.
Looking at the curves (not a peak) shown on page 1, they appear to coorespond within reason.
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      06-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Looking at the curves (not a peak) shown on page 1, they appear to coorespond within reason.
True, the boost curves do correspond in terms of shape; however, it still doesn't prove that the dyno is calibrated. Doesn't the Procede measure boost a little higher than a boost gauge tapped into the DVs? So, if the dynojet (tapped into the DVs) is reading higher than the Procede... can one speculate that the Dynojet is reading the boost inaccurately high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
In general, the PROcede Reader software will read slightly higher than the boost gauge tapped into the diverter valves. This is due to the pressure drop across the TB. When I say slightly, about 0.25 - 1.0 PSI depending on the gauge and calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Thanks for the quick answer. So what would you say is the different range of boost you see across all the possible sampling points? 1-2PSI?

Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'd say less than .75psi. With the tmap sensor always reading higher than the boost gauge.

Shiv
BTW, I'm not arguing your point... just trying to understand the science of it all.
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      06-22-2009, 09:24 PM   #55
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I wasn't there for the first couple cars but one of the guys said that he was seeing 15-16 psi on the boost gauge when it was saying 19 psi on the dyno.
As far as assuming something is true until it is proven otherwise, then maybe you could assume the boost gage was correct and the dyno wasn't.
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      06-22-2009, 09:28 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xs***** View Post
True, the boost curves do correspond in terms of shape; however, it still doesn't prove that the dyno is calibrated. Doesn't the Procede measure boost a little higher than a boost gauge tapped into the DVs? So, if the dynojet (tapped into the DVs) is reading higher than the Procede... can one speculate that the Dynojet is reading the boost inaccurately high?
My point is that validation is required before making a statement. The discrepancy in the PROcede boost reading is gearing and flow dependant. But this is generally only a 0.5 PSI difference.

Again, speculation is not valid, someone should have verified which is easily done.
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      06-22-2009, 09:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
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I wasn't there for the first couple cars but one of the guys said that he was seeing 15-16 psi on the boost gauge when it was saying 19 psi on the dyno.
As far as assuming something is true until it is proven otherwise, then maybe you could assume the boost gage was correct and the dyno wasn't.
At the same RPM? Why not bypass hearsay and just get validated data? It is not difficult. Also, is the gauge correct, was it validated? Too many holes without the proper abilities. And again, if unknown, do not make assumptions, make decisive conclusions with proper information.
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      06-22-2009, 09:34 PM   #58
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Can some more pump gas dyno graphs be posted?

Shiv
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      06-22-2009, 09:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
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My point is that validation is required before making a statement. The discrepancy in the PROcede boost reading is gearing and flow dependant. But this is generally only a 0.5 PSI difference.

Again, speculation is not valid, someone should have verified which is easily done.
That's fair... I guess we're just going to have to assume the boost was neither wrong nor right.

Nevertheless, good dyno day turnout.
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      06-22-2009, 09:40 PM   #60
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Here's mine... injen DCI, helix FMIC, Rev II canbus stage 2. First time dynoing any car...
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      06-22-2009, 09:45 PM   #61
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Can some more pump gas dyno graphs be posted?

Shiv
+1 and race gas graphs
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      06-22-2009, 09:46 PM   #62
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Here's mine... injen DCI, helix FMIC, Rev II canbus stage 2. First time dynoing any car...
Yinger, what gas were you running?
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      06-22-2009, 09:47 PM   #63
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nice numbers...
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      06-22-2009, 09:48 PM   #64
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Here's mine... injen DCI, helix FMIC, Rev II canbus stage 2. First time dynoing any car...
Thanks for posting that.
16.7 psi for 91 octane?
Isn't that high for the procede or is that normal?
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      06-22-2009, 10:01 PM   #65
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i was running 91...
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      06-22-2009, 10:04 PM   #66
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i was running 91...
Stock exhaust and Stg 2 with default User Torque?
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