Originally Posted by pawarrant

1. The people that support terrorism are quite rich, while they may recruit poor people to their cause by using social economic arguments, that is not the reason the leaders of the terrorist groups engage in terrorism. They simply want the world controlled by Islam.

2. Your statement is true. From an American standpoint all international terrorism against us has been perpetrated exclusively by Muslims.

3. While point 3 may also be true, it should be noted that the Muslim population and leaders as a whole is not vocal in condemning terrorism. If they would do the job of "policing" their own, it would not be perceived that their entire population supports terrorism.

I could not have stated this any better. It's perfect.

[whippersnapper]

it is truely frightening that people like cmd and pawarrant are allowed to vote

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

it is truely frightening that people like cmd and pawarrant are allowed to vote

It's truly frightening that people like whippersnapper (Dems) are allowed to vote twice plus a few more times for their dead relatives.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Exactly what am I in denial about?

This is exactly what you appear to be in denial about:

You apparently are in denial that ALL recent terrorism, specifically the incidents indicated in the "Quiz," have ALL been carried out by MALE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 17 AND 40.

The fact is, that description fits all those terrorists.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

This is the post that prompted the above response:

I'll list the points I made more simply - 1 by 1 and you can tell me which ones you believe to be 'wrong'.

I believe that it is a combination of both. Muslims believe that their faith is the only true faith and that all others need to be converted or killed.

2. Terrorism is not exclusive to Muslim extremists.

Of course not. However, we are talking about the current world situation, not historically.

3. The majority of Muslims particularly those in the West do not support terrorism or commit terrorist acts.

I honestly have no way of knowing. No Muslims thus far, that I am aware of, have ever stepped up and denounced terrorism. They just sit quietly and let it happen. Until they do, quite honestly, I will default to disagree with that statement.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

4. Sadly, the terrorist agenda does seem to flourish in some Muslim countries and societies and in particular the idea of the suicide bomber seems to be embraced rather than vilified.

I'm not clear on what I'm agreeing or disagreeing with here. The terrorist agenda seems to be flourishing, yes, in countries all over the world.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I can't imagine you disagree with the 4th point - so it must be one of the 1st three. Point 2 is an absolute fact (ref. the IRA) - so you must believe either:

1. The Muslim faith in itself directly leads to terrorism.
2. The majority of Muslims support terrorism.

Because the Muslim community has not vocally and repeatedly denounced these terrorist acts, we are discussing, I have no reason to belive that the majority of them do not support terrorism. And I will tell you that there are many Americans that feel this way whether they admit it openly or not.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Both positions are profoundly incorrect and I hardly think that my position is akin to arguing that 'black is green'.

I refer to the "Black is Green" analogy when you deny that the terrorist acts listed in the quiz were not ALL carried out by male Muslim extremists between the ages of 17 and 40, since they were.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I've noticed that you tend to get frustrated in these discussions (which you typically start) and that you begin to attempt to evade the salient points by becoming insulting or dismissive of other peoples views.

My friend, I am not the one who has side-stepped salient points. And you are correct, in fact, that I do get frustrated when you, again, deny what is fact. Need I go into that again. The point is, all "current," not historical, terrorism, more specifically the acts referred to in the quiz, have ALL been carried out by male Muslim extremist between the ages of 17 and 40. Have we beat this horse to death yet?

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Do you believe this to be a useful debating technique?

No, but you are using the same technique you're accusing me off on me!

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Incidentally - I would be interested in your views on my aztlan related post above and the bizarre (IMO) links between that situation and the one in the middle east.

My views are these people are hell bent in the taking over of the south western U.S. How much more clear can that be to you? You read the article.

The reason I posted it in this thread was because I was asked where "Aztlan" was. How is that bizzare?

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by CMD

This is exactly what you appear to be in denial about:

You apparently are in denial that ALL recent terrorism, specifically the incidents indicated in the "Quiz," have ALL been carried out by MALE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 17 AND 40.

The fact is, that description fits all those terrorists.

I guess you believe AUM Shinrikyo is a muslim extremist sect. Why are you so ignorant? Is it because you simply ignore facts that don't conform to your world view?

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

It's truly frightening that people like whippersnapper (Dems) are allowed to vote twice plus a few more times for their dead relatives.

You are funny. You want to label me as a democrat because I don't agree with you.

[pawarrant]

Ok what are you then? Socialist party? Green?

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

Ok what are you then? Socialist party? Green?

I am on the right of the political spectrum.

Why would it matter what my political affiliations are. In my experience, it is only americans who try and frame everything as a liberal or conservative issue.

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I guess you believe AUM Shinrikyo is a muslim extremist sect. Why are you so ignorant? Is it because you simply ignore facts that don't conform to your world view?

Are you inferring this Buddhist bonehead has had anything at all to do with any of the terrorist acts in the quiz?? That's a stretch! LOL! Nice try though.

That idiot is so inconsequential in the scheme of things his existence is virtually irrelevant.

You must be getting frustrated 'cause you're now calling me names.

Aum Shinrikyo, indeed! LMAO!

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

It would seem you reply to posts without comprehending their contents which makes it challenging to maintain a dialogue

You readily fall into the stereotypical behavior of people who have a dogmatic view but cannot explain it. An analysis of your posts simply shows you re-state the same thing over and over again which I understood we had already established as assinine.

I had to keep re-stating because you apparently did not understand my point. You kept asking me, "what's your point?" The point was obvious, and you kept overlooking the obvious, so I kept re-stating. It’s an assertiveness tactic. It's one very powerful and effective way of trying to keep someone on point when they are desperately trying to confuse the issue.

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I am on the right of the political spectrum.

Why would it matter what my political affiliations are. In my experience, it is only americans who try and frame everything as a liberal or conservative issue.

Please now, every one of your arguments is left wing.

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

it is truely frightening that people like cmd and pawarrant are allowed to vote

Unfortunately I cannot vote, I am a convicted felon.









































NOT!

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I am on the right of the political spectrum.

Why would it matter what my political affiliations are. In my experience, it is only americans who try and frame everything as a liberal or conservative issue.

By your comment it appears you are not American, what are you if I may ask?

Originally Posted by JB 330ci

LOL


I live it every day, but now since I was injured I'm finally heading back to the states.

God bless you for your service to this great country!

I hope your injuries were not too serious.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

CMD: I can't argue with the facts of your post - it's pretty clear that Islamic fundamentalism has been a significant factor in many recent acts of terrorism.

However, the acts is question were commited by extremists who do not represent Islam and that the terrorism itself was and is motivated more clearly by socio-economic and polital factors than by religion.

The fact that you have posted your 'quiz' without any explanation of your views leaves it open to mis-interpretation.

Can you explain why you posted as you did?

Fair question. I'd say mainly to point out that we are in a religious war with Muslim extremists. And further that there is no point in attempting to be politically correct when attempting to protect ourselves from same. We need to focus primarily on profiling young male Muslims, with regard to the security of our country. I think that's what I had in mind when I posted the quiz.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

That's nonsense - I think whippersnappers point makes perfect sense and I am 33, white and NOT muslim. Having said that - if I were muslim I would still deplore terrorism and would not be ashamed on my faith.

Okay, having said that, I would also deplore terrorism, however I would speak out loudly against these extremists, not sit back idley and do nothing. You rarely, if ever, hear the Muslim community here in the United States, or anywhere else that I know of, speak out against these atrocities. You have to ask yourself, "why not?" I sure do.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

It's pretty clear that a large number of acts of terrorism have been commited by Islamic extremists in recent years. The reasons why this would be the case are very complex and in my opinion this is a socio economic problem rather than one of religion. The current problems of large scale international terrorism are exclusively linked to muslim extremism.

You know, it may well be that there are socio-economic reasons for the terrorism, but does it justify the killing of innocents? However, if you dig deeper, you'll see that they want everyone to convert to Islam, or they will eventually kill everyone that does not.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

It is important though to acknowlelge 2 things - which I think is whippersnappers point:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

1. Terrorism is not exclusive to muslim extremists, but like all violence it is largely exclusive to young men. My alternative quiz demonstrates this.

I don't agree that your quiz is analogous. There is no logical comparison.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

2. The majority of muslims (particularly those who live in the western world)are not terrorists and do not sympathise with terrorist action.

Sadly, I am not convinced of this. If the Muslim community was more vocal with regard to this, it would be easier to believe. I am very suspicious. Not of every Muslim, but it makes people very wary.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Unfortunately there does seem to be a particular ability for the terrorist agenda to flourish in Muslim countries and societies. In particular the 'suicide bomber' ideal seems to somehow capture and be acceptable to many muslims in a way that seems completely alien to more western societies.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

Its getting worse. CMD can't understand anyone elses posts, pawarrant can't understand his own. No wonder you make such silly statements if you are incapable of making a logical argument

Do you suffer from an erection problem or premature ejaculation?


































LOL! I'm just kidding around! I just heard a commercial that asked that question. Can you believe we have radio and TV commercials about that? ROTFALMAO!

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by CMD

You know, it may well be that there are socio-economic reasons for the terrorism, but does it justify the killing of innocents?

Do you not agree the US military has killed orders of magnitude more innocents than all the terrorists in your quiz combined?

You see, the US actions are not consistent with sound strategy. My diasagreement on current policy is not a bleeding heart liberal one as you would like to advocate, it is instead displeasure at the serial missteps of a idiologically drivne adminstration that is unable to see it is making things worse not better(in fact they know that now, but they hardly say so).

The greater threat to world stability is Iran and North Korea, yet they are ignored and in the meantime the US is bogged down and spending money like water in Iraq and minimizing its strategic options should either of these more dangerous theaters blow up.

The invasion of Iraq has deepened scepticism as to the true US motivations, since the war on terror such as it is, is not a war against a nation state. And of all the Muslim nations, Iraw is very porogressive and secular and an anathoma to radical Islam as can be clearly heard in some of bin ladens communications. Instead of damping down the market for terror, the US actions have increased demand by acting as a catalyst for numerous insurgents to cause chaos in Iraq and further foster US hatred.

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by CMD

Do you suffer from an erection problem or premature ejaculation?

LOL! I'm just kidding around! I just heard a commercial that asked that question. Can you believe we have radio and TV commercials about that? ROTFALMAO!

You destroy any final shred of credibility you had. The funny thing is that on the internet you interact with people you ordinarily would not ever ocme into contact with.

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

By your comment it appears you are not American, what are you if I may ask?

I was born in New Zealand, but am also an Australian citizen.

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by CMD

We need to focus primarily on profiling young male Muslims, with regard to the security of our country.

Why do you say this? Experts on profiling do not agree with you.

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

Do you not agree the US military has killed orders of magnitude more innocents than all the terrorists in your quiz combined?

You see, the US actions are not consistent with sound strategy. My diasagreement on current policy is not a bleeding heart liberal one as you would like to advocate, it is instead displeasure at the serial missteps of a idiologically drivne adminstration that is unable to see it is making things worse not better(in fact they know that now, but they hardly say so).

The greater threat to world stability is Iran and North Korea, yet they are ignored and in the meantime the US is bogged down and spending money like water in Iraq and minimizing its strategic options should either of these more dangerous theaters blow up.

The invasion of Iraq has deepened scepticism as to the true US motivations, since the war on terror such as it is, is not a war against a nation state. And of all the Muslim nations, Iraw is very porogressive and secular and an anathoma to radical Islam as can be clearly heard in some of bin ladens communications. Instead of damping down the market for terror, the US actions have increased demand by acting as a catalyst for numerous insurgents to cause chaos in Iraq and further foster US hatred.

At least we are killing those bastards over there rather than being attacked here.