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      08-24-2006, 10:31 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
Why do you say this? Experts on profiling do not agree with you.
There isn't a law enforcement agency out there that does not profile. It's called common sense police work.
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      08-24-2006, 10:33 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
I was born in New Zealand, but am also an Australian citizen.
So you are not a U.S. citizen? That pretty much lowers your credibility when you attack me and CMD for our ability to vote, considering you shouldn't be able to vote here.
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      08-24-2006, 11:06 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
This is exactly what you appear to be in denial about:

You apparently are in denial that ALL recent terrorism, specifically the incidents indicated in the "Quiz," have ALL been carried out by MALE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 17 AND 40.
You often seem to see disagreement where there is none. I did not say your quiz was innacurate in ANY of my posts. And I am not in denial about anything. I agree that the recent 'world-scale' terrorism targeted against the USA has been universally committed by Muslim extremists - I don't agree that ALL terrorism is commited by muslim extremists (eg the oaklahoma bombing, eta, the IRA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
The majority of Muslims particularly those in the West do not support terrorism or commit terrorist acts.
I honestly have no way of knowing. No Muslims thus far, that I am aware of, have ever stepped up and denounced terrorism. They just sit quietly and let it happen. Until they do, quite honestly, I will default to disagree with that statement.
This the single point we disagree on here. I personally know a number of muslims who entirely reject the terrorist agenda. In the UK muslim leaders have rejected and deplored the terrorists acts. The perverse truth is that the terrorists have done more to damage Islam than anybody else, because their action has directly led to the widespread distrust of ALL muslims exhibited by people like yourself. I do not distrust a worldwide faith - the second largest religion on earth - because of a handful of evil terrorists. I don't see that as being in denial and I don't believe that Islam itself is the problem.

I do agree that the Islamic leaders in the middle east need to do more to cut out the cancer of terrorism from within their communities and countries. This is where the west should be focused right now. Working with the Islamic world to better integrate it into world politics. One of the problems is that the middle east situation blurs the boundaries between terrorism and freedom fighting in the eyes of the people of palestine and the lebanon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
Because the Muslim community has not vocally and repeatedly denounced these terrorist acts, we are discussing, I have no reason to belive that the majority of them do not support terrorism. And I will tell you that there are many Americans that feel this way whether they admit it openly or not.
I understand why you feel this way - but I do not agree with you. The Muslim world needs to do more to denounce and reject terrorism. But you are wrong to say that Muslims have not denounced it:

http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
I refer to the "Black is Green" analogy when you deny that the terrorist acts listed in the quiz were not ALL carried out by male Muslim extremists between the ages of 17 and 40, since they were.
If I had denied this your analogy would have made sense. Unfortunately I didn't and it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
My friend, I am not the one who has side-stepped salient points. And you are correct, in fact, that I do get frustrated when you, again, deny what is fact. Need I go into that again. The point is, all "current," not historical, terrorism, more specifically the acts referred to in the quiz, have ALL been carried out by male Muslim extremist between the ages of 17 and 40. Have we beat this horse to death yet?
Again - I didn't deny it - in your frustration you are reading things into my posts that are not there. I am not side stepping or avoiding salient points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
My views are these people are hell bent in the taking over of the south western U.S. How much more clear can that be to you? You read the article.

The reason I posted it in this thread was because I was asked where "Aztlan" was. How is that bizzare?
No - again you misunderstand me. I was identifying what I saw as a bizarre link to the middle east situation in the Aztlan / Michelle Malkin immigration sites and columns. I did not at any stage say your posts on this were bizarre.

What I wanted to know is what you thought of the parallel that the Aztlan crowd and Ms Malkin had drawn. My opinion was that it was unhelpful.
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      08-24-2006, 11:17 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
1. The people that support terrorism are quite rich, while they may recruit poor people to their cause by using social economic arguments, that is not the reason the leaders of the terrorist groups engage in terrorism. They simply want the world controlled by Islam.

2. Your statement is true. From an American standpoint all international terrorism against us has been perpetrated exclusively by Muslims.

3. While point 3 may also be true, it should be noted that the Muslim population and leaders as a whole is not vocal in condemning terrorism. If they would do the job of "policing" their own, it would not be perceived that their entire population supports terrorism.
I largely agree with this. In particular I think you are correct that the people who fund terrorism are pursuing an ultimate goal of an Islamically dominated world. I also think that the socio-economic situations in countries like Afghanistan (pre allied invasion), palestine, syria and the lebanon make them ideal recruiting grounds for the terrorists.

I also agree that the Islamic leaders need to do more to denounce terrorism, but do not accept that they have done nothing. In my opinion the problem is that a number of leaders do not reject terrorism in their 'local' struggles (e.g. Hamas / Hesbullah) because they do in fact support this local terrorism and consider it to be 'freedom fighting'. I have no doubt that they do reject 'world terrorism' because it is actually wholly detrimental to the Islamic world, but they struggle to denounce it without losing credibility at home.

It's interesting that when you post in this way I find that we probably agree to a large extent, but that when you post stuff like 'at least we are killing the bastards over there' I really struggle to see any sense in what you say.

I think the phrase 2 nations divided by a common language really applies here.

I hope by the 'bastards' you mean the terrorists, what bothers me is that there are plenty of innocents being killed and your post suggests that they are also 'bastards' which I find quite offensive.
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      08-24-2006, 12:25 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
I was born in New Zealand, but am also an Australian citizen.
New Zealand.

The land where the men are men and the sheep are scared.

I spent a year in Australia. Only was able to spend a week in New Zealand

Great country, and great people.

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      08-24-2006, 12:37 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSilver
New Zealand.

The land where the men are men and the sheep are scared.

I spent a year in Australia. Only was able to spend a week in New Zealand

Great country, and great people.

Used ot be 3 million people and 70 million sheep. Now there are 4 million humans and 40 million sheep so you have to work a little harder to get a date
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      08-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
So you are not a U.S. citizen? That pretty much lowers your credibility when you attack me and CMD for our ability to vote, considering you shouldn't be able to vote here.
I don't see why. There is no relation to my eligibility to vote in the USA and your suitability for it
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      08-24-2006, 12:39 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
There isn't a law enforcement agency out there that does not profile. It's called common sense police work.
Read the posts. The subject is racial profiling not profiling in general.
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      08-24-2006, 01:56 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
I largely agree with this. In particular I think you are correct that the people who fund terrorism are pursuing an ultimate goal of an Islamically dominated world. I also think that the socio-economic situations in countries like Afghanistan (pre allied invasion), palestine, syria and the lebanon make them ideal recruiting grounds for the terrorists.

I also agree that the Islamic leaders need to do more to denounce terrorism, but do not accept that they have done nothing. In my opinion the problem is that a number of leaders do not reject terrorism in their 'local' struggles (e.g. Hamas / Hesbullah) because they do in fact support this local terrorism and consider it to be 'freedom fighting'. I have no doubt that they do reject 'world terrorism' because it is actually wholly detrimental to the Islamic world, but they struggle to denounce it without losing credibility at home.

It's interesting that when you post in this way I find that we probably agree to a large extent, but that when you post stuff like 'at least we are killing the bastards over there' I really struggle to see any sense in what you say.

I think the phrase 2 nations divided by a common language really applies here.

I hope by the 'bastards' you mean the terrorists, what bothers me is that there are plenty of innocents being killed and your post suggests that they are also 'bastards' which I find quite offensive.
Oh come on now like its not obvious I'm talking about the terrorists. No other nation in history at any other time has taken more care to limit civilian casualties and collateral damage than the present day U.S. military, so spare me!
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      08-24-2006, 01:59 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
I don't see why. There is no relation to my eligibility to vote in the USA and your suitability for it
An Australian lecturing Americans on how to defend themselves is like me telling you how to catch a kangaroo.
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      08-24-2006, 02:06 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
An Australian lecturing Americans on how to defend themselves is like me telling you how to catch a kangaroo.
The one thing that is most striking about the USA is how close minded, ill informed and truely frightening are the view of the average good 'ol boys. Your comment is indicative of the essence of the problem. You truely believe there is something about being born in America that makes your view of the world superior to all others and that somehow, noone else should be allowed to comment on your choices and actions. Rather ironic given the way your country interferes in everyone elses lives.

Luckily the corporate world doesn't think the same way or I would be in trouble
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      08-24-2006, 02:09 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
Why do you say this? Experts on profiling do not agree with you.
Who are these experts in profiling you refer to? I don't know any expert in terrorism or law enforcement who would not use profiling as one of many tools to keep us safe. Your just plain country stupid if you would not screen a Muslim between the ages of 14 and 60 more than the Swedish bikini team or a group of Amish heading to a cow tipping contest getting on an aircraft. You may call that profiling, most would call it common sense.
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      08-24-2006, 02:11 PM   #79
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pa, why don't you get a passport, take a deep breath and go travel and see the world through others' eyes. You might just learn something, but more likely judging from your posts, probably not
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      08-24-2006, 02:11 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
You destroy any final shred of credibility you had. The funny thing is that on the internet you interact with people you ordinarily would not ever ocme into contact with.
So for you, anyone who makes a joke does so at the expense of completely destroying any credibility they may have had? My friend, you have some serious personal issues that you should look into. I don't want resort to calling names, and I won't. But if I did, I'd call you and freaking idiot.
 
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      08-24-2006, 02:13 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
Why do you say this? Experts on profiling do not agree with you.
Experts on profiling? Which experts? Profiling happens all day, every day. Please supply me with your sources.
 
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      08-24-2006, 02:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
The one thing that is most striking about the USA is how close minded, ill informed and truely frightening are the view of the average good 'ol boys. Your comment is indicative of the essence of the problem. You truely believe there is something about being born in America that makes your view of the world superior to all others and that somehow, noone else should be allowed to comment on your choices and actions. Rather ironic given the way your country interferes in everyone elses lives.

Luckily the corporate world doesn't think the same way or I would be in trouble
I just think its funny that a foreigner is lecturing me, and basically saying I shouldn't be allowed to vote in my own country. It's even funnier that your home country has about the same policies regarding these topics as ours. It's even more funny that your lecturing on the USA being some sort of police state, and yet our law enforcement operates under more restrictions than in your own country. Can you explain what freedoms you do not have when you are the USA that you have in your home country?
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      08-24-2006, 02:21 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
pa, why don't you get a passport, take a deep breath and go travel and see the world through others' eyes. You might just learn something, but more likely judging from your posts, probably not
I have a passport and I love to travel when I can. I actually would love to see Australia or New Zeland. I just can't afford to right now. You have a place I can stay?
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      08-24-2006, 02:52 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
You often seem to see disagreement where there is none. I did not say your quiz was innacurate in ANY of my posts. And I am not in denial about anything. I agree that the recent 'world-scale' terrorism targeted against the USA has been universally committed by Muslim extremists - I don't agree that ALL terrorism is commited by muslim extremists (eg the oaklahoma bombing, eta, the IRA)
You are correct, you never specifically stated, "CMD, your Quiz is inaccurate." You kept posting, "What's your point? What's your point? What's your point?" My point was clear, that every single GD act of terrorism in every GD question it the GD quiz was carried out by male Muslim extremists between the GD age of 17 and DG 40, which you implied over and over and over again was not correct. In fact I was correct. You were using the left-wing bleeding-heart circular argument tactic to try to move me off point. WTF does the Okalahoma bombing, the "F" ing IRA and that other obscure Buddhist dickweed you mentioned have to do with any of the GD terrorism we are discussing here??!! Holy freaking sh*t, man! Try to stay on point! GD, don't you ever get tired of going in freaking circles??

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
This the single point we disagree on here. I personally know a number of muslims who entirely reject the terrorist agenda. In the UK muslim leaders have rejected and deplored the terrorists acts. The perverse truth is that the terrorists have done more to damage Islam than anybody else, because their action has directly led to the widespread distrust of ALL muslims exhibited by people like yourself. I do not distrust a worldwide faith - the second largest religion on earth - because of a handful of evil terrorists. I don't see that as being in denial and I don't believe that Islam itself is the problem.
You know a "number of Muslims who entirely reject the terrorist agenda"? Woohoo! A number of Muslims who reject the terrorist agenda, boy I feel warm and fuzzy now. I guess we can relax . . . .

In the United States, where I happen to live and where the attacks we are discussing are focused, there has, again . . . . been little, if ANY, Muslims speaking out publicly and vocally with regard to the terrorists that practice their faith, okay! And if the truth be known, and Americans have been brow-beaten for so long to be Politically Correct so they won't speak out publicly, we have a widespread distrust of these people. Would you expect any less of a normal human being? A "handful of terrorists" my ss! Get a freaking grip on reality my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
I do agree that the Islamic leaders in the middle east need to do more to cut out the cancer of terrorism from within their communities and countries. This is where the west should be focused right now. Working with the Islamic world to better integrate it into world politics. One of the problems is that the middle east situation blurs the boundaries between terrorism and freedom fighting in the eyes of the people of palestine and the lebanon.
And I guess you know more about what should be done in world politics than our leaders, eh? Hell, why not give 'em a call with your opinion. I’m sure they’ll take your advice into consideration.

Palestine and Lebanon. Now where the "F", in left field, did THAT come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
I understand why you feel this way - but I do not agree with you. The Muslim world needs to do more to denounce and reject terrorism. But you are wrong to say that Muslims have not denounced it:
http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp
That statement should be an embarrassment to the Muslim community. One freaking stupid-ss statement rejecting terrorism. Maybe if they actually did something, took some sort of action against it, then there would not be such wide spread distrust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
If I had denied this your analogy would have made sense. Unfortunately I didn't and it doesn't.
This is exactly the response I expected. You have not let me down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Again - I didn't deny it - in your frustration you are reading things into my posts that are not there. I am not side stepping or avoiding salient points.
You side-stepped them in virtually every post you made. I'm not going to go back and quote them. This is beginning to be a total waste of my time, arguing with bonehead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
No - again you misunderstand me. I was identifying what I saw as a bizarre link to the middle east situation in the Aztlan / Michelle Malkin immigration sites and columns. I did not at any stage say your posts on this were bizarre.
Good back and read it. You did, and I told you I posted it because I was asked where Aztlan is. At least your answers are consistent – consistently circular. I'm getting dizzy! Anyone one else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
What I wanted to know is what you thought of the parallel that the Aztlan crowd and Ms Malkin had drawn. My opinion was that it was unhelpful.
MEChA is unhelpful. I honestly don't give a crap about Ms Malkin or her parallels. I'd like to stay on point.
 
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      08-24-2006, 02:59 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
I largely agree with this. In particular I think you are correct that the people who fund terrorism are pursuing an ultimate goal of an Islamically dominated world. I also think that the socio-economic situations in countries like Afghanistan (pre allied invasion), palestine, syria and the lebanon make them ideal recruiting grounds for the terrorists.

I also agree that the Islamic leaders need to do more to denounce terrorism, but do not accept that they have done nothing. In my opinion the problem is that a number of leaders do not reject terrorism in their 'local' struggles (e.g. Hamas / Hesbullah) because they do in fact support this local terrorism and consider it to be 'freedom fighting'. I have no doubt that they do reject 'world terrorism' because it is actually wholly detrimental to the Islamic world, but they struggle to denounce it without losing credibility at home.

It's interesting that when you post in this way I find that we probably agree to a large extent, but that when you post stuff like 'at least we are killing the bastards over there' I really struggle to see any sense in what you say.

I think the phrase 2 nations divided by a common language really applies here.

I hope by the 'bastards' you mean the terrorists, what bothers me is that there are plenty of innocents being killed and your post suggests that they are also 'bastards' which I find quite offensive.
I'm shocked. needforspeed now, "largely" agrees with [us] you. WTF?

Unfortunately the killing of innocents is a by-product of war. It is a sad fact. But we did not start this war.
 
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      08-24-2006, 03:21 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
I learned plenty about the world looking down the buisness end of AK-47's in the hands of Cuban soldiers in Angola. Yep, the world's a wonderful place.
I'm sure you know this, but your occasionally cynical interjections are not helpful
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      08-24-2006, 03:23 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
I have a passport and I love to travel when I can. I actually would love to see Australia or New Zeland. I just can't afford to right now. You have a place I can stay?
Well you do have some redeeming features in that I agree with your choice of car
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      08-24-2006, 06:24 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by pawarrant
An Australian lecturing Americans on how to defend themselves is like me telling you how to catch a kangaroo.


My friend, that is classic!
 
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