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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > PROcede CANbus logging/new Data Channels/Safety/etc



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      06-22-2009, 06:27 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Exclamation PROcede CANbus logging/new Data Channels/Safety/etc

Yes, we've been quiet. But here's one of the things we've been working on for the last several weeks:

High Speed CANbus logging!

And as of last night, it's finally done. Still a few finishing touches that need to be made to the user software. But mainly for aesthetics.

Background:
Before this latest advancement, the PROcede (like all piggybacks) could only read the signals it physically intercepted in the wiring harness. While the PROcede had the most, these signals were limited to:
RPM, TPS, Boost, IAT, O2 voltage and roadspeed. This allowed us to make a solid, yet conservative tune. It had to be conservative because the PROcede didn't know what the engine did with the extra power we gave it. We had to assume, through long term map development/testing, that the engine wasn't knocking, running exceptionally hot, running too lean, running with too little advance, etc,. At moderate tune levels, this wasn't an unfair assumption to make. However, customer needs have forced us to push the envelope a bit. And provide higher output/higher boost tunes. One approach was just to raise the boost as others have (and continue to do). Very easy to do. But I don't like doing that on $5000 evo engines, let alone $15k BMW engines. So we dug back into the PROcede Rev.2's CANbus feature.

Specifically, being able to read ALL the hundreds of channels of engine data that travels along the network. First step was to capture the data that revealed exactly what was going on with the engine. That is, is it knocking? If (hopefully) not, how far is combustion away from the knock threshold? How much of the combustion energy is being dumped into the cooling sytem(s)? How is the factory ECU's loading management coping with the extra boost loads?

Until now, you either had to hope for the best and cross your fingers OR get a third party ECU logger (a la BavTech). Fortunately, this is no long the case since we added the following loggable channels into the PROcede Rev.2:

1) Ignition advance--- the Actual ignition advance angle. Unlike third party logging tools, this channel takes into account the timing offset induced by the PROcede. So if stock timing is 13 deg BTDC and the PROcede (at that given point in time) is inducing a -3 deg correction, the displayed timing advance will be 10 deg. This is the channel a user would look at when determining how aggressive he/she can be with the new user tunable adjustments (specifically Ignition Correction and User Torque).

2) Knock Status--- Self explanatory. In this particular case, the PROcede is actually counting the occurrence of knock every time the engine is under boost. This knock tendency can eventually be used to auto adjust the PROcede's ignition correction amount. Basically taking role away from the factory DME's reactive logic (which actually lets knock occur to a degree before intervening). But for now, it's simply there for the user to monitor if he/she chooses to fine tune the conservative baseline maps for their particular conditions/car/mods. More on that later.

Here's a log of these two new channels in action:


Next, we added Actual Throttle Angle to the mix. Now the PROcede (and the user, of course) can see how well the stock DME's torque/boost management system is responding to the tune/extra boost. Is it fighting the tune? Or are they coexisting peacefully. In this particular case, everything looks nice stable. The only time you see the actual throttle close before the applied throttle is above 6500rpm when the DME rolls back boost in anticipation for the rev cut:


And lastly (for the time being at least), we added something we've been wanting to read for a LOONG time: Oil and Coolant Temps! With the N54 engine being so thermally mismanaged (especially when not equipped with an oil cooler), we simply HAD TO get access to this data. Relying on the factory to limp the engine when things got to hot isn't acceptable. Especially when running, at times, twice the factory boost pressure.

Now, we not only start dropping boost levels when oil and coolant temps get uncomfortably high, we also drop boost when the engine is cold. So right upon start-up (on a cold engine), the PROcede isn't even doing anything. As oil temps start to creep above 150F, the tune starts to "ramp in" reaching "full strength" at 190F were it stays until ~250F. Then above that, the tune starts to "ramp out" with it dropping back to stock boost/power by 280F. I think this feature will be very welcome for those who don't have an oil cooler or track their car regularly and see temps teetering in the 260+ range.

Here's a log of the temp logging in action:


What's Left to be Done:
Still a few days from releasing this latest round of updates. It will be a simple firmware file. I hope to also have new user software done at the same time. This will have the new custom tuning features that can now be used now that the user has access to the new logging channels.

Eventually, we will make the whole custom tuning system automated (ie, auto tuning). But that is a little while way. For the immediate future, we just want to offer an optimal solution for those who want to be able to dial in maximum power without maximum risk. Those who don't care about that, can continue to run the baseline maps and enjoy their car

More to come...

Cheers,
Shiv
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      06-22-2009, 06:35 PM   #2
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      06-22-2009, 06:42 PM   #3
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so in regards to the oil temp monitor thing.. basically if your car goes above 250F, you force the car into limp mode (aka stock boost levels).. so whats the difference between going limp with procede and without?

and for this:
Quote:
Is it fighting the tune? Or are they coexisting peacefully. In this particular case, everything looks nice stable.
if the tune and car didn't exist peacefully.. wouldn't the car reject it in the first place? when does a car not like the tune? lets say you got bored one day and wanted to force them to not coexist "peacefully".. what changes would have to be made to the map for that to happen?
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      06-22-2009, 06:45 PM   #4
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NICE!!! Hopefully you guys can load this in my RevII that is with Dustin right now....
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      06-22-2009, 06:45 PM   #5
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Shiv, I like your style.

It must have been very difficult to hold back on announcing until you had it working.

The auto tune will utterly pwn.
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      06-22-2009, 06:47 PM   #6
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Limp mode is not stock boost levels...it hardly wants to move and you won't see it till 300F as far as oil temps go. This ramp up/down feature is necessary on the track imho. Saves me the time to turn down the UTs myself when conditions get bad.
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      06-22-2009, 06:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTwinz View Post
you force the car into limp mode (aka stock boost levels).. so whats the difference between going limp with procede and without?
You just equated limp mode with stock boost levels. They are not the same with limp your not going to get any boost, stock is still max around 8 PSI. I think he described it as tapering it down, it just doesn't collapse the tune boost down to stock immediatley, it has logic to make incrimental changes based on real time conditions.
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      06-22-2009, 06:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 View Post
You just equated limp mode with stock boost levels. They are not the same with limp your not going to get any boost, stock is still max around 8 PSI. I think he described it as tapering it down, it just doesn't collapse the tune boost down to stock immediatley, it has logic to make incrimental changes based on real time conditions.

+1
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      06-22-2009, 06:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTwinz View Post
if the tune and car didn't exist peacefully.. wouldn't the car reject it in the first place? when does a car not like the tune? lets say you got bored one day and wanted to force them to not coexist "peacefully".. what changes would have to be made to the map for that to happen?
I'll take this one Shiv.

1. If peaceful coexistence ended, the car would launch a preemptive strike against the PROcede. Depending upon what the PROcede did, that could be anything from disengaging the wiring harness and ejecting the PROcede to all-out nuclear war.

2. The car doesn't actually have to like the tune as long as one can coexist peacefully with the other.

3. You could force non-peaceful coexistence by programming the PROcede to disparage the DME's heritage. That would probably
result in having the DME eject the PROcede. OR you could program the PROcede to pull the ass hairs of the DME, which would no doubt result in nuclear counter-measures.
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      06-22-2009, 07:01 PM   #10
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Sounds great...can't wait to try it out!!! I will wait to dyno tune my car until this is released, I am hoping to get to the 360rwhp mark at SAE, with my Stett CAI and Corsa Exhaust (and of course the PROcede). After reading some of the results from the Father's Day Dyno post, most people running the PROcede were not even breaking the 350rwhp mark?!? What gives with that??? I hit 331rwhp and 351rwtq with my JB+ at 100%. I love the PROcede and all of the features and new safety mechanisms, but still have aspirations of being able to get close to the 400rwhp club with a few more mods and my PROcede. I have strong feeling that a FMIC and possibly H20/Meth may be in my future! I hope that will push me close to that magical mark, while still maintaining some assemblence of a safety net for my engine and all it's components?!? Stay tuned...

Go Shiv!!!!

Cheers!
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      06-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincy335i View Post
Sounds great...can't wait to try it out!!! I will wait to dyno tune my car until this is released, I am hoping to get to the 360rwhp mark at SAE, with my Stett CAI and Corsa Exhaust (and of course the PROcede). After reading some of the results from the Father's Day Dyno post, most people running the PROcede were not even breaking the 350rwhp mark?!? What gives with that??? I hit 331rwhp and 351rwtq with my JB+ at 100%. I love the PROcede and all of the features and new safety mechanisms, but still have aspirations of being able to get close to the 400rwhp club with a few more mods and my PROcede. I have strong feeling that a FMIC and possibly H20/Meth may be in my future! I hope that will push me close to that magical mark, while still maintaining some assemblence of a safety net for my engine and all it's components?!? Stay tuned...

Go Shiv!!!!

Cheers!
Unless I'm mistaken, the PROcede results were right in line with expectations when with 91oct. They ranged from ~340whp to ~370whp, depending on mods. With your 93oct, expect another 10-15whp. With race gas and a race gas map, even more than that. There's no secret with how to make dyno power. But then you look at the graph and what kind of octane is needed to go along with it.

The most powerful tune will simply be a 17-18psi tune, running race gas. With no supplementing fuel or ignition tuning. Nice to brag about and easy to provide from a tuner perspective. But pretty crummy at the end of the day.

Shiv
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      06-22-2009, 07:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, the PROcede results were right in line with expectations when with 91oct. They ranged from ~340whp to ~370whp, depending on mods. With your 93oct, expect another 10-15whp. With race gas and a race gas map, even more than that. There's no secret with how to make dyno power. But then you look at the graph and what kind of octane is needed to go along with it.

The most powerful tune will simply be a 17-18psi tune, running race gas. With no supplementing fuel or ignition tuning. Nice to brag about and easy to provide from a tuner perspective. But pretty crummy at the end of the day.

Shiv
You are 1000% correct...I appreciate the insight. I really can't wait to tune the car using this new information and on good ole' Sunoco 94 octane. Thanks Shiv for the great products and advances in the products. Some people would make a great product and walk away, but you should be commended for constantly improving a great product. Can't wait to get on the dyno!

ps- I do love the tune...Mike and I had a great day installing the PROcede and intake, but WOW did I learn a lot!!!!

Thanks again Shiv. Cheers.
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      06-22-2009, 07:21 PM   #13
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I'll take this one Shiv.

1. If peaceful coexistence ended, the car would launch a preemptive strike against the PROcede. Depending upon what the PROcede did, that could be anything from disengaging the wiring harness and ejecting the PROcede to all-out nuclear war.

2. The car doesn't actually have to like the tune as long as one can coexist peacefully with the other.

3. You could force non-peaceful coexistence by programming the PROcede to disparage the DME's heritage. That would probably
result in having the DME eject the PROcede. OR you could program the PROcede to pull the ass hairs of the DME, which would no doubt result in nuclear counter-measures.
I don't get it, you are trying to mock me, but you don't realize that it was Shiv and not I that used the term "coexist peacefully".. I was making fun of his choice of words...
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      06-22-2009, 07:23 PM   #14
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I like what I'm reading... Guess Im going to go the PROcede route... Performance and the safety net, it's good to see a tune that has both, while not skimping out on either...
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      06-22-2009, 07:25 PM   #15
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I like what I'm reading... Guess Im going to go the PROcede route... Performance and the safety net, it's good to see a tune that has both, while not skimping out on either...
Good choice!!!
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      06-22-2009, 07:31 PM   #16
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Shiv, cool stuff and great new features as always
Any news on the boost gauge in the MPG display for us simple users?
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      06-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, the PROcede results were right in line with expectations when with 91oct. They ranged from ~340whp to ~370whp, depending on mods. With your 93oct, expect another 10-15whp. With race gas and a race gas map, even more than that. There's no secret with how to make dyno power. But then you look at the graph and what kind of octane is needed to go along with it.

The most powerful tune will simply be a 17-18psi tune, running race gas. With no supplementing fuel or ignition tuning. Nice to brag about and easy to provide from a tuner perspective. But pretty crummy at the end of the day.

Shiv
For those that missed them, here are the Vishnu results from the dyno day.

5) Procede Rev2 CanBus Stage 1, DCI, magnaflow section 3, 91Oct: 337whp, 357torque
6) Procede Rev1 Stage 3, DCI, VK FMIC, AR DPs, 2nd cat delete, 91Oct: 367whp, 369torque
7) Procede Rev2 CanBus Stage 2, Injen DCI, Helix Fmic, 91Oct: 361whp, 353torque
8) Procede Rev2 CanBus Stage 1, DCI, HKS BOV, 100Oct: 326whp, 361torque

For these new channels, they appear to be the low speed OBDII channels? How is knock count calculated?
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      06-22-2009, 07:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Army335xi View Post
I like what I'm reading... Guess Im going to go the PROcede route... Performance and the safety net, it's good to see a tune that has both, while not skimping out on either...
Some tuners have a history of inadequate safety nets, search is your friend. These sound like steps in the right direction though.
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      06-22-2009, 07:39 PM   #19
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      06-22-2009, 07:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by got psi View Post
now if we can get a quick rundown as to what to look for when fine tuning ignition and UT...

It's very simple. There will be documentation. Nothing that isn't already being done by people with BT software.
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      06-22-2009, 07:44 PM   #21
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Shiv, cool stuff and great new features as always
Any news on the boost gauge in the MPG display for us simple users?
+1, fantastic news...very good to see this coming through, but boost guage in display!?
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      06-22-2009, 07:49 PM   #22
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+1, fantastic news...very good to see this coming through, but boost guage in display!?
+10000000 I am waiting for this too...hopefully soon??
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