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      06-26-2009, 08:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by second_2_nun View Post
i want to upgrade the speakers in my car but I don't have the logic 7 audio in my e92 just the regular who makes speakers to fit ? I don't think i even have the woofers under my seat can someone clarify thanks
Yes you do.

Direct replacement speakers: www.bavariansoundworks.com
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      06-26-2009, 08:42 PM   #24
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Yes you do.

Direct replacement speakers: www.bavariansoundworks.com
is there any other replacements besides bsw like maybe alpine or jl? is the quality good from bsw can I run any amp with the e92 non logic
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      06-26-2009, 08:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by second_2_nun View Post
is there any other replacements besides bsw like maybe alpine or jl? is the quality good from bsw can I run any amp with the e92 non logic
You're gonna have to punctuate better than that.


Technic, I think that at least with non-L7 drivers, you're getting all you can get with them. I wouldn't drive those with much of an aftermarket amp, and I would expect to have to lowpass the 4" somehow - I would expect that driver to be harsh as heck on the top end with more power.

But either way, it is a complex system and there is more than one way to make it suck less than it sucks now.
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      06-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by second_2_nun View Post
is there any other replacements besides bsw like maybe alpine or jl? is the quality good from bsw can I run any amp with the e92 non logic
the fittment is the issue with those speakers... we need shallow mounting speakers and most won't physically fit in the front doors
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      06-26-2009, 08:48 PM   #27
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The OEM components are 2 ohms in impedance. Most of the aftermarket 4" components that you will find that fit the E9x are 4 ohms in impedance. Any aftermarket amp that is 2 ohms stable will handle as well 4 ohms loads, however the power output will be either reduced (the G6600) or even stay the same regardless of the load (PDX) when you go from 2 ohms to 4 ohms.

Just play around with what you think will work for you... the rest is frosting.
so basically... as long as I get a 2 ohm stable amp, it won't matter that the speakers are all 4 ohms?
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      06-26-2009, 08:51 PM   #28
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so basically... as long as I get a 2 ohm stable amp, it won't matter that the speakers are all 4 ohms?
No, but you need to pay attention to the power output at those 4 ohms.
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      06-26-2009, 08:54 PM   #29
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No, but you need to pay attention to the power output at those 4 ohms.
ok... hmmm maybe I'll just PM you what I think I'm gonna buy and you can tell me if it will work or what I'll need to MAKE it work.
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      06-26-2009, 08:56 PM   #30
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the fittment is the issue with those speakers... we need shallow mounting speakers and most won't physically fit in the front doors
that blows... so I gues its bsw or nothing
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      06-26-2009, 08:57 PM   #31
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You're gonna have to punctuate better than that.


Technic, I think that at least with non-L7 drivers, you're getting all you can get with them. I wouldn't drive those with much of an aftermarket amp, and I would expect to have to lowpass the 4" somehow - I would expect that driver to be harsh as heck on the top end with more power.

But either way, it is a complex system and there is more than one way to make it suck less than it sucks now.
That's the reason of adding a processor to a HiFi system if the OEM amp is replaced, at least the OEM components can be tuned not to be harsh as you stated.

There is a inverse proportion between budget and compromises... the lower the budget the higher the compromises.

I think that there are several ways of going about improving the HiFi, but at the end a real upgrade is in the $2000+ range with installation.
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      06-26-2009, 09:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by second_2_nun View Post
that blows... so I gues its bsw or nothing
As mentioned before, there are other 4" component speakers that fit straight. But they are pretty expensive ($400 a set starting).
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      06-26-2009, 11:18 PM   #33
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Iv got e92 and had the standard stereo, replaced it with diamond audio D343i in the front running off a Genesis profile 4 amp and a 12" vibe sub running off a vibe black box 2 amp. just unplugged the rear speakers and that crap under the seat for a better sound stage . All fits in fine and looks stock. Both amps are in the boot under that lift up false floor.
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      06-27-2009, 12:53 AM   #34
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Hey Technic,

Any opinions on the Alpine PXE-H650?
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      06-27-2009, 04:46 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
FYI: I'm in the final development and production of a custom harness to allow direct plug in interface with the main OEM amp connector in the trunk, so the OEM amp can be fully replaced while no OEM cables will have to be cut to add any aftermarket amp or processor to the OEM HiFi (non-Logic7) system. It will include a relay with fuse protection for the OEM remote turn on signal. It should be for sale in around 6 weeks for current 3- and 1-Series and the E46; this will greatly simplify the installation and thus considerably reduce the installation costs.
Sign me up for one of those, please. It sounds like just what a lot of people want.
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      06-27-2009, 04:54 AM   #36
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Hey Technic,

any advise on upgrade the sound of L7 on a tight buget.
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      06-27-2009, 06:30 AM   #37
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As mentioned before, there are other 4" component speakers that fit straight. But they are pretty expensive ($400 a set starting).
could you point me in the direction what brands?
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      06-27-2009, 06:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by vallance5 View Post
Iv got e92 and had the standard stereo, replaced it with diamond audio D343i in the front running off a Genesis profile 4 amp and a 12" vibe sub running off a vibe black box 2 amp. just unplugged the rear speakers and that crap under the seat for a better sound stage . All fits in fine and looks stock. Both amps are in the boot under that lift up false floor.
awesome post some pics please..
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      06-27-2009, 07:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallance5 View Post
Iv got e92 and had the standard stereo, replaced it with diamond audio D343i in the front running off a Genesis profile 4 amp and a 12" vibe sub running off a vibe black box 2 amp. just unplugged the rear speakers and that crap under the seat for a better sound stage . All fits in fine and looks stock. Both amps are in the boot under that lift up false floor.
Diamond Audio has a shallow mount 4.5" separate: D343
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/111/124/
Low power, but may be usefull for some applications.

Last edited by fdiprete; 06-28-2009 at 07:14 AM. Reason: spec is 4.5" not 4"
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      06-27-2009, 09:00 AM   #40
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Using a processor to get around lousy speakers is philosphically a bad approach.

The old school approach is to get a speaker which mechanically tends to behave the way you want, and then EQ for the cabin acoustics.

If you are trying to save money, I have always suggested going for the better speakers and avoiding the processing. When speakers behave poorly when new, they don't get better with age. OE speakers - and I've pulled a lot of them - get soft, overly flexible, the foam and paper start to come apart - within the first few years!

Aftermarket speakers are far more likely to retain their mechanical characteristics over their operating life. If the speakers are carefully chosen as a system, minimal processing is required - hopefully mostly crossover filtering.

For vehicles like the coupe with the fitment issues and a very narrow selection of speakers, I can understand the need for processing - but it still feels like a tough way to save any mooey.
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      06-27-2009, 09:25 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by fdiprete View Post
Diamond Audio has a shallow mount 4" separate: D343
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/111/124/
Low power, but may be usefull for some applications.
FYI: The 1.8"/45mm depth of these D343 are of a top mount, the 50mm limitation of the OEM mounts are for bottom mount.

What that means is that either the door OEM mount will have to be modified somehow or these speakers will have to be mounted from the outside of the door panel in.

There is a couple of examples of this Diamond Audio 4" chassis (it is the same depth across their HEX, CM and D lines) installations in E9x in this forum:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=12 using
http://www.woofersetc.com/p2911/CM34...Components.htm

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=14 using the HEX S400
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      06-27-2009, 09:29 AM   #42
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I haven't looked at the posted links yet, but if you have a tight spot and a thin-flange stamped frame, you can remove the grill and countersink-load a 100mm driver farther into the door panel, and fit the grille over it. Have done it with Morel Hybrid Ovation 4 drivers in an E83 (which is shallower than the E90 but I don't know if it is shallower than the E92. the OE BMW driver is also shallower than the E90, and the magnet is actually pressing on the foam of the door panel.)
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      06-27-2009, 09:52 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP Electricity View Post
Using a processor to get around lousy speakers is philosphically a bad approach.

The old school approach is to get a speaker which mechanically tends to behave the way you want, and then EQ for the cabin acoustics.

If you are trying to save money, I have always suggested going for the better speakers and avoiding the processing. When speakers behave poorly when new, they don't get better with age. OE speakers - and I've pulled a lot of them - get soft, overly flexible, the foam and paper start to come apart - within the first few years!

Aftermarket speakers are far more likely to retain their mechanical characteristics over their operating life. If the speakers are carefully chosen as a system, minimal processing is required - hopefully mostly crossover filtering.

For vehicles like the coupe with the fitment issues and a very narrow selection of speakers, I can understand the need for processing - but it still feels like a tough way to save any mooey.
I disagree... but only philosphically.

In the particular case of the 3 Series the actual 4" OEM speakers are being asked to reproduce a band that really does not push the physical limits of these speakers -after all they are just 4". For example, the crossover point of all the OEM systems (including the Individual Audio) for these 4" OEM speakers is around 150Hz and up, and the underseat woofers go up to 200Hz. The 4" Focal 100K2 $450 component set frequency response is 120Hz and above, the Hertz 4" EM-100 -part of a 3-way system of $500- is 400Hz and above.

Most of the strong mid bass is done by the woofer, the 4" are basically voice divers with some mid punch. This is fundamentally a 3-way system split in two areas, front and rear.

What I'm saying is that if you are able to fine tune the OEM 4" speakers using a processor/EQ you will be able to move up and down the band ranges of these OEM speakers to your personall sweet spot and still have better sound than OEM, while keeping these OEM speakers from self destructing. Perhaps it will not be a better sound than a $500 Focal or Morel set, but definitely it will be a better sound than with the OEM amp.

The BSW approach is great, replace the OEM speakers with higher efficiency 4" components while keeping the same OEM amp and underseat woofers. But at the end of the day you are keeping the OEM EQ curve, the same crossover points, the same power output and no personal fine tune capability while being $600 less rich...

This is the kind of discussion that can go either way... spend more get great results, spend less get good results. Only the person doing the upgrade will appreciate the difference between the two and nobody else, IMO.
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      06-27-2009, 10:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I disagree... but only philosphically.

In the particular case of the 3 Series the actual 4" OEM speakers are being asked to reproduce a band that really does not push the physical limits of these speakers -after all they are just 4". For example, the crossover point of all the OEM systems (including the Individual Audio) for these 4" OEM speakers is around 150Hz and up, and the underseat woofers go up to 200Hz. The 4" Focal 100K2 $450 component set frequency response is 120Hz and above, the Hertz 4" EM-100 -part of a 3-way system of $500- is 400Hz and above.

Most of the strong mid bass is done by the woofer, the 4" are basically voice divers with some mid punch. This is fundamentally a 3-way system split in two areas, front and rear.

What I'm saying is that if you are able to fine tune the OEM 4" speakers using a processor/EQ you will be able to move up and down the band ranges of these OEM speakers to your personall sweet spot and still have better sound than OEM, while keeping these OEM speakers from self destructing. Perhaps it will not be a better sound than a $500 Focal or Morel set, but definitely it will be a better sound than with the OEM amp.

The BSW approach is great, replace the OEM speakers with higher efficiency 4" components while keeping the same OEM amp and underseat woofers. But at the end of the day you are keeping the OEM EQ curve, the same crossover points, the same power output and no personal fine tune capability while being $600 less rich...

This is the kind of discussion that can go either way... spend more get great results, spend less get good results. Only the person doing the upgrade will appreciate the difference between the two and nobody else, IMO.
probably why it sounds so damn muddy
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