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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > N54 CAMS?!



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      07-09-2009, 04:03 PM   #23
joec500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jworms View Post
i think turbo cars get benefits from cams too. i mean there must be a reason that the evo guys use them, right? cost-per-hp is probably not that great, but that will totally depend on price of the cams.

i know the VANOS in the 335s is probably more sophisticated than the e36 (mostly because it's probably for both exhaust and intake side), but i'd be surprised if it's not similar to the e46 M3. i think you'll see cams for the E9X M3 soon enough and i'm sure its VANOS is pretty sophisticated.
I completely agree with your arguments....But in regards to the E9x M3's, you can generally assume (NOT ALWAYS) that they have more money to throw around for mods, where as the N54 guys buy Turbo'd cars for the Low End TQ as well as the ability to bang for the buck mods....You might see some cams come out for our car when N54 Big Turbo kits are more prevalent, but I just do not see the justification at the moment for such a high dollar mod.

Also remember there are probably many more people out there modding Evo's and STi's then N54's...hence the business sense for building that stuff. Those guys are also REALLY pushing those more proven
powerplants.

Not to mention they only have ONE cam shaft

Last edited by joec500; 07-09-2009 at 04:29 PM.
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      07-09-2009, 04:14 PM   #24
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I completely agree with your arguments....But in regards to the E9x M3's, you can generally assume (NOT ALWAYS) that they have more money to throw around for mods, where as the N54 guys buy Turbo'd cars for the Low End TQ as well as the ability to bang for the buck mods....You might see some cams come out for our car when N54 Big Turbo kits are more prevalent, but I just do not see the justification at the moment for such a high dollar mod.

Also remember there are probably many more people out there modding Evo's and STi's then N54's...hence the business sense for building that stuff. Those guys are also REALLY pushing those more proven powerplants.
Not to mention the 4G63 has been around for 10+ years already. The aftermarket had already evolved before the evo 8 came to the US.
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      07-09-2009, 04:30 PM   #25
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Not to mention the 4G63 has been around for 10+ years already. The aftermarket had already evolved before the evo 8 came to the US.
+1..i miss my evo
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      07-09-2009, 04:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
I completely agree with your arguments....But in regards to the E9x M3's, you can generally assume (NOT ALWAYS) that they have more money to throw around for mods, where as the N54 guys buy Turbo'd cars for the Low End TQ as well as the ability to bang for the buck mods....You might see some cams come out for our car when N54 Big Turbo kits are more prevalent, but I just do not see the justification at the moment for such a high dollar mod.

Also remember there are probably many more people out there modding Evo's and STi's then N54's...hence the business sense for building that stuff. Those guys are also REALLY pushing those more proven
powerplants.

Not to mention they only have ONE cam shaft
wait, evos and stis are single overhead?

and i totally agree on your other points.
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      07-09-2009, 04:43 PM   #27
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wait, evos and stis are single overhead?

and i totally agree on your other points.
No, they are both DOHC.
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      07-09-2009, 05:06 PM   #28
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wait, evos and stis are single overhead?

and i totally agree on your other points.
I stand corrected...Two cams for those guys too
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      07-09-2009, 05:20 PM   #29
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wait, evos and stis are single overhead?

and i totally agree on your other points.
FINALLY, constructive debate on a forum!!!
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      07-09-2009, 05:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
No, they are both DOHC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
I stand corrected...Two cams for those guys too
exactly, which is why i was asking & why i brought up my original question regarding cams..DOHC on my evo(i had cams), basically anybody w/ a modded evo/sti runs cams so i wasn't sure why not 1 vendor offered it for this engine, i figured it had to be something i just wasn't knowledgeable on & there had to be a valid reason..

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FINALLY, constructive debate on a forum!!!
& lol
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      07-09-2009, 06:39 PM   #31
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exactly, which is why i was asking & why i brought up my original question regarding cams..DOHC on my evo(i had cams), basically anybody w/ a modded evo/sti runs cams so i wasn't sure why not 1 vendor offered it for this engine, i figured it had to be something i just wasn't knowledgeable on & there had to be a valid reason..



& lol
Yeah, the longer you are around the N54 world you'll appreciate the 4G63's wealth of aftermarket support more an more. For a multitude of reasons things just move slower for this engine.
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      07-09-2009, 07:54 PM   #32
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Yeah, the longer you are around the N54 world you'll appreciate the 4G63's wealth of aftermarket support more an more. For a multitude of reasons things just move slower for this engine.
1 reason I assume is that if you blow up the N54 it's going to be a bit pricier than a 4G63
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      07-10-2009, 06:21 AM   #33
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1 reason I assume is that if you blow up the N54 it's going to be a bit pricier than a 4G63
Definitely. Some of the others are lack of anything other then basic bolt-ons and BMW having gone out of their to make this a hard platform to tune. Things like no fuel pump/injector upgrades readily available yet, constant software updates, turbos welded right to the manifolds, etc...
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      07-10-2009, 11:21 AM   #34
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+1..i miss my evo
Me too.

It truly is amazing how much aftermarket support there is for the 4G63. The N54 is still a baby compared to those other FI cars.

I think cams are not readily available because like others have said, there is no need for them at this time. We don't even have turbo upgrades readily available yet, or fuel systems to max out the cams. The R&D behind them can't be cheap either.

When I saw HKS jumping into the 335 world I was hoping for good things. Maybe they have cams for this vehicle in secret development
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      07-10-2009, 11:40 AM   #35
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Me too.

It truly is amazing how much aftermarket support there is for the 4G63. The N54 is still a baby compared to those other FI cars.
Consider how long the 4G63 has been around... I can't wait for the N54 to have an aftermarket the size of the DSMs
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      07-10-2009, 02:01 PM   #36
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The subaru EJ motor cams are on the sides, actually, not technically "overhead" like an I or V engine.

It took a long time for the EJ engines to catch up to the 4G63 mod support. I think it'll take evn longer for the N54 given the class of car, and relative fewer "tuner" capture rate.

But the 4G63's been around forever. Thos old AWD DSMs were a f*cking riot! Tranny shredders, and FUN!

dR
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      07-10-2009, 03:35 PM   #37
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The subaru EJ motor cams are on the sides, actually, not technically "overhead" like an I or V engine.

It took a long time for the EJ engines to catch up to the 4G63 mod support. I think it'll take evn longer for the N54 given the class of car, and relative fewer "tuner" capture rate.

But the 4G63's been around forever. Thos old AWD DSMs were a f*cking riot! Tranny shredders, and FUN!

dR
You are really splitting hairs here. If the cam is in the head and not the block generally it's considered "overhead".

From the Subaru website:
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impre...res-specs.html

Quote:
305-hp SUBARU BOXER engine

2.5-liter DOHC intercooled, turbocharged aluminum alloy 16-valve 4-cylinder horizontally opposed SUBARU BOXERŽ engine.
If they are calling it DOHC. I think we can.
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      07-10-2009, 03:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
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You are really splitting hairs here. If the cam is in the head and not the block generally it's considered "overhead".

From the Subaru website:
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impre...res-specs.html



If they are calling it DOHC. I think we can.
Correct. The "overhead" refers to whether the cam is in the head, or in the block.
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      07-10-2009, 07:19 PM   #39
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Because there's absolutely NO reason to. There isn't even an upgraded set of turbos that one can buy that could even begin to utilize the extra flow the cams would provide. The stock turbos can be easily max'ed on the stock cams.
hey guys, joing my own thread late:
i think that within months, there will be viable turbo upgrade options available.
i myself know of one promising vendor that is literally a few weeks away.

i was asking about cams cause i like to plan ahead

btw, what is this about an custom intake manifold and tune ??
is the tune a flash ??

cheers
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      07-11-2009, 01:43 PM   #40
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cams are not as expensive as you think. i have custom turbo cams in my S52 turbo engine that were about 1000 bucks to send to him have him reground. when they came back, you would have thought they were brand new.


now new blanks would cost some ching ching, but having them reground wouldnt be THAT bad. it would just be the tear down and wait time, unless you had some floating around.


remember too, that the cams are REALLY fun to install on this car with all the jigging needed to install them.
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      07-11-2009, 01:51 PM   #41
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Nissan's VQ35 engine has CVVT (continuous variable valve timing) and they had new cams out within the 1st year of the car's release. I am not sure how that relates to VANOS etc. but I mean they aren't simple american OHV cams either.

I just think mods are going to take longer on this car because there aren't as many N54 tuners as with many other more popular "tuner" cars. Smaller market means parts will cost more since you have less sales to make your total profit off of. Higher prices will delay the sales further, if not indefinitely for many people. Kinda like upgraded turbos, we have to pay $5k to have our stock turbo's rebuilt with slightly larger internals. Others get to pay $5k for a complete kit (manifolds, piping, FMIC, turbo/s, tune, injectors, etc.). Not because our parts are more expensive, but because they won't sell 1/10 as many of our parts.

We have an excellent platform. I like the fact that I rarely see a 335i on the road, but in turn that means we have to pay tons more money for mods.
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      07-11-2009, 02:00 PM   #42
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cams are not as expensive as you think. i have custom turbo cams in my S52 turbo engine that were about 1000 bucks to send to him have him reground. when they came back, you would have thought they were brand new.


now new blanks would cost some ching ching, but having them reground wouldnt be THAT bad. it would just be the tear down and wait time, unless you had some floating around.


remember too, that the cams are REALLY fun to install on this car with all the jigging needed to install them.
Do you mean the method used when you don't have access to the BMW cam tool? That shit sucked (broke a cam on that engine myself).
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      07-11-2009, 02:06 PM   #43
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Do you mean the method used when you don't have access to the BMW cam tool? That shit sucked (broke a cam on that engine myself).
no, i have all the tools to do the cams in a N54, but yes i know what your talking about.
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      05-12-2012, 02:17 AM   #44
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