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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BMW Oil Study Done-Long Interval Changes unhealthy for N54 engine



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      07-10-2009, 09:46 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335stepitup View Post
The parameters need to be reset to indicate that a service has been done and the entire cycle can start to count down again. While the oil sensor is one of the main inputs there a few more such as average fuel consumption, time, number of cold starts, ambient temp and engine load adaptation. It's the same when you get the main battery replaced the SOH(state of health is not automatically factored and still requires a technician to log a battery replacement.) I'm not looking for excuses for BMW here I just happen to know the behind the scenes situ in a workshop quite well, having been a certified BMW master technician myself.
If it's one of the main inputs, then the interval would go up when it detects oil with low conductivity. Lets face it: the service interval is 15k with minor adjustments made for cold starts, fuel consumption, temp, etc. I think the conductivity sensor is just a backup and tells you if you're already screwed and the engine is shedding copious amounts of metal.

Also, high hp/l, hot running, turbocharged engines are very hard on oil AND very demanding of oil performance. There's no way this engine should have the same change interval as their naturally aspirated motors. In fact, Subaru had the same change interval on their turbo motors at first, but after only a few years, they changed the requirement to every 3000 miles- their "severe service" interval. That's right- they now consider merely having a turbocharged motor "severe service". What makes the BMW engines different?
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      07-10-2009, 10:15 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carve View Post
If it's one of the main inputs, then the interval would go up when it detects oil with low conductivity. Lets face it: the service interval is 15k with minor adjustments made for cold starts, fuel consumption, temp, etc. I think the conductivity sensor is just a backup and tells you if you're already screwed and the engine is shedding copious amounts of metal.

Also, high hp/l, hot running, turbocharged engines are very hard on oil AND very demanding of oil performance. There's no way this engine should have the same change interval as their naturally aspirated motors. In fact, Subaru had the same change interval on their turbo motors at first, but after only a few years, they changed the requirement to every 3000 miles- their "severe service" interval. That's right- they now consider merely having a turbocharged motor "severe service". What makes the BMW engines different?
First of all. No one has considered that maybe BMW develops their engines in a way that no matter how much wear the oil goes through, the engine will be running optimally for 15k miles between services. Although I do agree that 15k miles is a bit too much between oil services for these engines, I think people need to suck it up and change their oil more frequently. A lot of the poeple here aren't first time BMW buyers and knew that the service interval was 15k miles, you should have ALL considered this when you bought your cars, so that later you didnt end up here where u are, complaining. I'm fine with my 15k service interval, I change my oil every 5k miles and I know my engine will be fine!
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      07-10-2009, 10:21 AM   #47
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I don't get how owners of cars costing about 50 k have trouble paying for oil changes every 5 k miles. Makes no sense.

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      07-10-2009, 12:28 PM   #48
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I don't get how owners of cars costing about 50 k have trouble paying for oil changes every 5 k miles. Makes no sense.


this is the point exactly -- why?
maybe im wrong, but to spend 50k+ for a car and throw wheels, tires, suspension kits and the like -- oh oh -- if forgot, intake, DPs, exhaust and a tune (piggy or otherwise) one the car and expect the same service interval is not a reasonable request of a manufacturer. if you want to re-manufacturer your car to you specs -- then you need to create a maint. schedule which will suit the cars performance.

most engines nowadays are test-benched for multiple thousand of miles for durability and longevity, some times at rpms the the normal consumer will never reach for an extended period of time. oil studies are performed and they do listen when something is wrong or even slightly arwy.. i think its premature to say that this is gonna be problematic "because Subaru did XX concerning their YY" now when some engine(s) start to fail at/or below 50km, then i would really like to support the effort - either that or have Subaru contract with BMW to build the engine platform that supports a lower service interval.

im probably saying this because the last 2 BMW's ive owned have had "free" service on them. the rest of the cars, all the services i paid for and matter of fact still paying on the great lil Honda Civic that my wife drives. do i mind no -- its called cost of ownership. do i think BMW is conservative in the numbers on service -- yes -- how will i remedy this -- change my own oil .. based on my personal taste.


this type of hype and FUD goes on so much in this forum i start to loose my train of thought cause i think im in the complaint line @ Macy's.
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      07-10-2009, 01:58 PM   #49
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I think you missed the point regarding Subaru. The point was, turbocharged engines are harder on, and more demanding of, the oil. BMW acts like there is no additional stress, which can't be right.

I can and do change my oil more often- I think most people complaining about the interval here do. That doesn't mean BMW shouldn't set a realistic service interval so people have the information necessary to maintain their cars properly, or enough to ensure the turbocharged performance engines last as long as the NA work-a-day engines.
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      07-10-2009, 05:08 PM   #50
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here is a funny one, I drove the crap out of my car quite often. I changed my own oil, tranny fluid, diff fluid, etc way more often than called for. In 37k miles of hard driving the car only told me to change the fluid once and that was at 19k miles. Are you kidding me???

The car wanted me to have my 1st oil change done after 19k miles and that included daily driving of all types plus 5 different visits to the drag strip which normally had around 10-15 runs each.

you all can trust the BMW gods to look out for your best interests all you want, i'm going to take care of my vehicles myself.
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      07-10-2009, 11:32 PM   #51
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30 minutes.....$45 DIY.....every 5,000 miles

20,000 miles is just too long for me.....

unless it's a leased vehicle...then I could careless....50,000 miles interval is even okay with me.

I wouldn't be surprise....if BMW Oil become LIFETIME like other fluids in the car....
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      07-11-2009, 07:43 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin View Post
I change mine every 3k miles. I don't see how people will go so long without an oil change, especially with a turbo engine. I kept my last car 9 years and 75k miles and it purred like a kitten.
Most people don't like wasting time and money. But to each their own.
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      07-11-2009, 08:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by jdemetry View Post
Most people don't like wasting time and money. But to each their own.
Let me guess... you're leasing your car and/or this your first performance car?
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      07-11-2009, 08:39 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post

I wouldn't be surprise....if BMW Oil become LIFETIME like other fluids in the car....
If they start putting in full PAO synthetic German Castrol 0W-30, that might become reality!

My only hope is that one of the BMW NA Reps on this forum passes this data onto the engineering department in Germany. The engineering team (who probably already know this) would have the task to argue with the bean counters and marketing folks to force them to change the interval to a more realistic 5-7.5k miles. (or at least release a Mike Miller-esqe memo stating that for best results, changing the oil every xx miles would help OR change the advertising to 50% off maintenance costs)
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      07-11-2009, 12:33 PM   #55
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IMO the stupid oil calculator seems to relie mainly on mileage regardless of actual usage pattern. Even if you are very aggressive with the car, that will have negligible eefect on the interval indicator. If you are in tune with your vehicle, you also notice the car runs better immediately after an oil change. If you can feel that, then I suppose it ought to tell you something no? I change mine every 5K miles on average. If you have a tune, and the dumb interval calculator still insists on same interval astock at more than double stock boost levels, how could that be? I just use my judgement and get my free change when its due.
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      07-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #56
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I'm at 7200 miles, I guess it's time for an oil change.

What should I be using?

Is there anything that I can get a local store? Or do I need to buy from BMW?
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      07-11-2009, 02:07 PM   #57
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Use only BMW oil or BMW approved brand oil. If you don't and something happens, you are in violation of their warranty. Besides, their oil is top notch oil.
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      07-11-2009, 02:09 PM   #58
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i think people here need to step back and look at the bigger picture. We (enthusiasts/modders/ spirited drivers) probably make up <5% of the total BMW owners out there.

Why then, would BMW cater to such a small target audience? With a stock car, under NORMAL driving habits, the 15k mile oil change interval is fine on these cars.. Sure 15k is probably pushing it, but BMW is a business.


If you chose to drive the car in a more aggressive way (drag racing/ track/ spirited mountain driving etc), or buy modifications that increase boost pressure (which adds more heat to the engine), then the responsibilty falls on YOU to change your oil before 15k miles..

I don't mind changing my own oil, i've done it on all my previous cars, so why not this one?? I agree that with agressive driving and/or mods the 15k interval is not safe..

my $.02
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      07-11-2009, 03:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vase330 View Post
Use only BMW oil or BMW approved brand oil. If you don't and something happens, you are in violation of their warranty. Besides, their oil is top notch oil.
Looks like BMWUSA lists some oils that are ok to use

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

The oils listed below meet BMW's Long-life rating and are acceptable for use in BMW Passenger vehicles and SAVs in the US market with gasoline engines.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

* Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30

* Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40

* Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30

* Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30



Use only oils with an API rating of SM or higher.
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      07-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #60
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I'm a total noob, what viscosity should I use?

I'm in Orange County CA.

0W-30? 0W-40? 5W-30?

Where would 0W-40 go on the chart below?

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      07-13-2009, 09:10 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan View Post
I'm a total noob, what viscosity should I use?

I'm in Orange County CA.

0W-30? 0W-40? 5W-30?

Where would 0W-40 go on the chart below?

0w-40

Woud go on the bottom.

Meaning it has its viscosity in the cold 0w and viscosity when its warm 40.

I put 5w-30 in mine...
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      07-13-2009, 09:51 AM   #62
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Im using 0w-30 from Amsoil...
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      07-13-2009, 03:57 PM   #63
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I'll be changing the oil on my 135i every 3,000 miles, same as I did on my Exige. I'd rather "waste" money on synthetic than risk big time repair costs.

I have no doubt that following BMWs scheduled maintenance plan will keep my car running up to 50,000 miles or for 4 years.

For all of you BMW huggers believing that 15,000 mile oil changes are healthy: did you ever hear about the decission to reduce the number of olives in martinis served in first class that saved $40,000 a year?

Use your own intuition and your own scientific data instead of being a blind believer.

If it tests like burned oil, and it smells like burned oil, IT'S BURNED OIL!

+100 to op!

And btw: changing your oil and your filter doesn't cost much more than a tank or two of premium gas.
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      07-13-2009, 04:29 PM   #64
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I change oil every 7,000 miles.

I just changed OEM 5W30 with Red Line 5W40 as living down in south-west Florida it rarely drops below 60-deg F in the winter and is commonly above 90-deg F in the summer.

With Red Line in the system, my peak oil temp coming home today was 225-deg F. The air temp is 92-deg F and my commute was 35 minutes in stop & go traffic with one jaunt to a peak speed of ~60 mph. With OEM oil, my temp was ALWAYS 240-deg F with occasional jumps to 250-deg F.

The kicker is Red Line is not an 'authorized' BMW oil, so please do your own research before blindly adding to your car.

(Apologies for the crappy cell-phone picture quality)
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      07-13-2009, 04:33 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Dude, you are not going to get BMW to change their No cost maintenance on existing vehicles. The maintenance interval is only suggested and for "normal" use... You are not going to win this...

Best to hope for is causing a change in the future.. That's why I suggested sending a letter to the Roundel magazine..
+1

what do you care?
it's not like YOU'RE going be to paying for anything that breaks
bmw will
so cheeeeeel
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      07-13-2009, 06:01 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo View Post
I change oil every 7,000 miles.

I just changed OEM 5W30 with Red Line 5W40 as living down in south-west Florida it rarely drops below 60-deg F in the winter and is commonly above 90-deg F in the summer.

With Red Line in the system, my peak oil temp coming home today was 225-deg F. The air temp is 92-deg F and my commute was 35 minutes in stop & go traffic with one jaunt to a peak speed of ~60 mph. With OEM oil, my temp was ALWAYS 240-deg F with occasional jumps to 250-deg F.

The kicker is Red Line is not an 'authorized' BMW oil, so please do your own research before blindly adding to your car.

(Apologies for the crappy cell-phone picture quality)
Do you have any mods on your car?that is impressive from 250F to 225F
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