E90Post
 


ProTUNING Freaks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > GIAC Tune & Dealer Visit - Guess what happened?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-28-2010, 12:30 PM   #1
I335
Brigadier General
I335's Avatar
61
Rep
4,251
Posts

Drives: '08 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England

iTrader: (11)

GIAC Tune & Dealer Visit - Guess what happened?

So, I had a cold start issue with my car where it idled very roughly, threw a cylinder 4 misfire code, and the SES light was on. I have a GIAC stage 1 tune in my car as well. So, I talked to my GIAC guy and asked him if he thought it was necessary to flash the car back to stock before bringing the car to the dealer to have it fixed. He told me that since it's a cold start, low RPM, cylinder misfire problem he didn't think the tune would be a problem...

So, I brought the car to the dealer with the tune to have it fixed. After the dealer had the car for a few hours, my SA told me they replaced my HPFP and fuel pressure sensor but the cold start problem was still there and now they were getting misfires in 3 other cylinders. My SA also told me they opened a PUMA case (what's a PUMA case?) and "had to send the data to BMW" to get their advice on how to proceed so naturally this made me a bit nervous. A couple hours later I get another email from my SA saying that they are going to replace all of the fuel injectors and all 6 spark plugs, but didn't say a word about the tune so at this point I'm feeling a bit better about it. At the end of that day my SA emailed me and said all the work is done and they just wanted to wait 'till morning so they could start it cold and take it for a test drive (looks like they drove the car about 15 miles in all) to make sure the problem was resolved.

Next morning the car started just fine and not a word from the dealer about the tune. This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've had work done on my car without going back to the stock flash and the dealer never said a word about it. I also have a KW suspension, AE exhaust, and a few other mods here and there so it's not like the dealer doesn't know I'm into modding my car. I don't know if they're just turning a blind eye and they don't care or they're really not detecting it. I suspect the latter given the work I just had done. Just thought I'd let you guys know...
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 12:55 PM   #2
cvc 22349a
Colonel
cvc 22349a's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,378
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay

iTrader: (9)

That's good to hear. Your dealership sounds pretty relaxed, as long as they're getting paid; that's how mine is. Sure hope BMWNA doesn't read these forums..
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:03 PM   #3
I335
Brigadier General
I335's Avatar
61
Rep
4,251
Posts

Drives: '08 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
That's good to hear. Your dealership sounds pretty relaxed, as long as they're getting paid; that's how mine is. Sure hope BMWNA doesn't read these forums..
Yeah, I'm more worried about BMW NA than I am about my dealership. I know one of the sales managers very well (known him all my life) and I have a very good relationship with my SA so for the most part they don't give me a hard time about my bolt-on mods. That said, they won't do any work on my my bolt on mods under warranty either, but that's completely understandable.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:08 PM   #4
enrita
Major General
enrita's Avatar
Sweden
97
Rep
7,361
Posts

Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

iTrader: (0)

i guess the important info here is that a PUMA was opened and nothing detected :-)
__________________
07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by MOTIV) - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:14 PM   #5
roadkillrob
Brigadier General
United_States
61
Rep
3,954
Posts

Drives: 08 335Cic,11 X5 35i,11 Audi S4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston

iTrader: (14)

Jay - excellent news and glad you cold start issue if finally addressed!
__________________

2008 E93 335i, GIAC Stage 2, HPF IC, Injen Intake, Defective AR Design DP's with useless cats
2014 X3 35i JB Stage 1, 2011 Audi S4 Giac Stage 2 + DSG Tune
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:20 PM   #6
I335
Brigadier General
I335's Avatar
61
Rep
4,251
Posts

Drives: '08 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Jay - excellent news and glad you cold start issue if finally addressed!
Thanks Rob! Yes, it took a couple of visits to the dealer but it all worked out in the end. With the new injectors, plugs, and GIAC stage 1 the car has never run better!
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:21 PM   #7
I335
Brigadier General
I335's Avatar
61
Rep
4,251
Posts

Drives: '08 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
i guess the important info here is that a PUMA was opened and nothing detected :-)
Yes... Do you know what "PUMA" actually means? What does it stand for and what does BMW NA do when a PUMA case is opened?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:28 PM   #8
JonLerd
Lieutenant
7
Rep
542
Posts

Drives: Alpine White 335i coupe
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Orange County / Los Angeles

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I335 View Post
Yes... Do you know what "PUMA" actually means? What does it stand for and what does BMW NA do when a PUMA case is opened?
yes im curious too
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:34 PM   #9
techlogik
Major
20
Rep
1,340
Posts

Drives: 07 335i Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FL

iTrader: (1)

Good info to know. Also, sounds like you have a good dealer.

But....don't you know Procede and JB are better?


I kid.....
__________________
SOLD: 2007 E92 335i Space Gray. Loaded. 6AT | GIAC Stage 1 w/map switcher 330rwhp/332tq | CX Racing IC | Drop-in Filter | Eibach Pro/Koni Yellows | M6 Reps | Toyo Proxes IV Tires, 235/35/19F-265/30/19R
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:42 PM   #10
scalbert
Major General
scalbert's Avatar
84
Rep
5,733
Posts

Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

iTrader: (7)






It is a support database essentially. Think of it as a way for a dealer to open a trouble ticket. Once opened, the relevant data can be attached to the case for analysis and a resolution response.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 01:52 PM   #11
shifterboy45
Major
shifterboy45's Avatar
14
Rep
1,180
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North by Northwest

iTrader: (0)

PuMA --

Products and Measures Aftersales --

the official Tech line for BMW Centers -- cases are submitted and reviewed.
tech analysis and responses for given condition are assessed and approved for repair with an associated case number. helps to track and define product defects in an orderly and retraceable fashion.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 02:51 PM   #12
cstavaru
Brigadier General
cstavaru's Avatar
102
Rep
3,237
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

iTrader: (0)

Interesting and a bit surprising, but nonetheless very good news ! (not that I would care, my warranty expires next month )
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #13
MF80
Captain
MF80's Avatar
Thailand
19
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: AW 2008 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Area51

iTrader: (10)

I would say this as "You took a chance and you got lucky"...
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #14
I335
Brigadier General
I335's Avatar
61
Rep
4,251
Posts

Drives: '08 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
PuMA --

Products and Measures Aftersales --

the official Tech line for BMW Centers -- cases are submitted and reviewed.
tech analysis and responses for given condition are assessed and approved for repair with an associated case number. helps to track and define product defects in an orderly and retraceable fashion.
Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 03:49 PM   #15
dj128
Private First Class
3
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: '09 335i E92
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brookline, MA

iTrader: (1)

Serious?! That was my biggest fear and reason for going with JB3 over GIAC. Great news. What dealership did you go to?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 04:00 PM   #16
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
vasillalov's Avatar
Bulgaria
95
Rep
4,241
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj128 View Post
Serious?! That was my biggest fear and reason for going with JB3 over GIAC. Great news. What dealership did you go to?
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 04:12 PM   #17
blisstik
Major
blisstik's Avatar
No_Country
24
Rep
1,427
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
On a technical side, could GIAC possibly change the encryption keys so BMW wouldn't be able to decrypt the firmware? That would be awesome but at the same time, BMW would use that to detect non-BMW firmware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
__________________

Engine: MOTIV 750 / MOTIV Port Injection Kit / Helix FMIC / ER CP + TiaL BOV | Tuning: JB4 MAC_11 / COBB-BMS Backend / Split Second AIC1-V6H | Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 / Full M3 Suspension / Quaife LSD / Defiv Lockdown / Megan Toe Arms | Wheels/Tires: Forgestar F14 19x8.5F +34 / 19x10R +38 / Michelin PSS
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 04:54 PM   #18
dj128
Private First Class
3
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: '09 335i E92
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brookline, MA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
Good to know. I just kept hearing different things from people, all based on assumptions. But now that someone has actually been to the dealer and back, I feel better about it. I was most worried about a possible fuel pump problem and the possibility of software uploading to BMW NA after opening up a PUMA case.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 05:33 PM   #19
Genek335
Captain
Genek335's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
929
Posts

Drives: 335
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (28)

ahhhh, i am moving to you and getting a stage 2 flash then....if the dealers over there were like the dealers over here, my life would be easy. I wouldnt go so far as to say anyone who has a flash is good at any dealer, obviously the relationship you have with the guy there plays some role in this one way or another ( big or small). thats great to hear you can have an exhaust and flash and service it anytime.... careful when something related to the tune pops up on the fault list though. you would be surprised how quick relationships fly when someone job is on the line. god forbid your turbos go, it will be like WHAT?? that guy??? he came in here all the time with these crazy modifications??? what a hooligan!!!
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #20
shifterboy45
Major
shifterboy45's Avatar
14
Rep
1,180
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North by Northwest

iTrader: (0)

one has to consider that a good relationship at the dealer is essential -- well if you bought the car from them, then that should be a given.

in the old days that went a long way in how irregular situation were handled. BMW had no fixed policy on good will / buy-backs were unheard of, and customers just loved their decently powered sports sedan/coupes...

having that relation with the dealer was (and still is vital) -- but a lot could go overlooked, and in all fairness, BMW started looking at things more closely -- cost of repairs for "unusual" cases started to creep up.

as time passed horsepower increased, systems grew more complex, repair cost rose. so to be critical of the vehicle operation and assure it is a parts or workmanship defect is prudent.

i doubt sincerely that the tune would escape the engineers if the situation presented itself.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 06:20 PM   #21
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
294
Rep
19,567
Posts


Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (32)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
one has to consider that a good relationship at the dealer is essential -- well if you bought the car from them, then that should be a given.

in the old days that went a long way in how irregular situation were handled. BMW had no fixed policy on good will / buy-backs were unheard of, and customers just loved their decently powered sports sedan/coupes...

having that relation with the dealer was (and still is vital) -- but a lot could go overlooked, and in all fairness, BMW started looking at things more closely -- cost of repairs for "unusual" cases started to creep up.

as time passed horsepower increased, systems grew more complex, repair cost rose. so to be critical of the vehicle operation and assure it is a parts or workmanship defect is prudent.

i doubt sincerely that the tune would escape the engineers if the situation presented itself.
I agree...I commend you on your posts lately, they are level headed and true 100%

Relationship goes a lot further then anything else. I dont care what tune you run, if they want to know they can know.

Its when your dealership tells you to get a "tune" they are "great" then you know your in a safe place.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 06:26 PM   #22
joec500
Brigadier General
48
Rep
3,003
Posts

Drives: it has 4 wheels
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (10)

agreed, you have a unique situation, I am not sure if GIAC would stand behind bringing a car flashed with their software to the dealer for Warranty Repairs.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:14 PM.




e90post
e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST