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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > GIAC Tune & Dealer Visit - Guess what happened?



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      09-28-2010, 11:30 AM   #1
I335
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GIAC Tune & Dealer Visit - Guess what happened?

So, I had a cold start issue with my car where it idled very roughly, threw a cylinder 4 misfire code, and the SES light was on. I have a GIAC stage 1 tune in my car as well. So, I talked to my GIAC guy and asked him if he thought it was necessary to flash the car back to stock before bringing the car to the dealer to have it fixed. He told me that since it's a cold start, low RPM, cylinder misfire problem he didn't think the tune would be a problem...

So, I brought the car to the dealer with the tune to have it fixed. After the dealer had the car for a few hours, my SA told me they replaced my HPFP and fuel pressure sensor but the cold start problem was still there and now they were getting misfires in 3 other cylinders. My SA also told me they opened a PUMA case (what's a PUMA case?) and "had to send the data to BMW" to get their advice on how to proceed so naturally this made me a bit nervous. A couple hours later I get another email from my SA saying that they are going to replace all of the fuel injectors and all 6 spark plugs, but didn't say a word about the tune so at this point I'm feeling a bit better about it. At the end of that day my SA emailed me and said all the work is done and they just wanted to wait 'till morning so they could start it cold and take it for a test drive (looks like they drove the car about 15 miles in all) to make sure the problem was resolved.

Next morning the car started just fine and not a word from the dealer about the tune. This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've had work done on my car without going back to the stock flash and the dealer never said a word about it. I also have a KW suspension, AE exhaust, and a few other mods here and there so it's not like the dealer doesn't know I'm into modding my car. I don't know if they're just turning a blind eye and they don't care or they're really not detecting it. I suspect the latter given the work I just had done. Just thought I'd let you guys know...
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      09-28-2010, 11:55 AM   #2
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That's good to hear. Your dealership sounds pretty relaxed, as long as they're getting paid; that's how mine is. Sure hope BMWNA doesn't read these forums..
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      09-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
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That's good to hear. Your dealership sounds pretty relaxed, as long as they're getting paid; that's how mine is. Sure hope BMWNA doesn't read these forums..
Yeah, I'm more worried about BMW NA than I am about my dealership. I know one of the sales managers very well (known him all my life) and I have a very good relationship with my SA so for the most part they don't give me a hard time about my bolt-on mods. That said, they won't do any work on my my bolt on mods under warranty either, but that's completely understandable.
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      09-28-2010, 12:08 PM   #4
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i guess the important info here is that a PUMA was opened and nothing detected :-)
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      09-28-2010, 12:14 PM   #5
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Jay - excellent news and glad you cold start issue if finally addressed!
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      09-28-2010, 12:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Jay - excellent news and glad you cold start issue if finally addressed!
Thanks Rob! Yes, it took a couple of visits to the dealer but it all worked out in the end. With the new injectors, plugs, and GIAC stage 1 the car has never run better!
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      09-28-2010, 12:21 PM   #7
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i guess the important info here is that a PUMA was opened and nothing detected :-)
Yes... Do you know what "PUMA" actually means? What does it stand for and what does BMW NA do when a PUMA case is opened?
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      09-28-2010, 12:28 PM   #8
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Yes... Do you know what "PUMA" actually means? What does it stand for and what does BMW NA do when a PUMA case is opened?
yes im curious too
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      09-28-2010, 12:34 PM   #9
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Good info to know. Also, sounds like you have a good dealer.

But....don't you know Procede and JB are better?


I kid.....
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      09-28-2010, 12:42 PM   #10
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It is a support database essentially. Think of it as a way for a dealer to open a trouble ticket. Once opened, the relevant data can be attached to the case for analysis and a resolution response.
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      09-28-2010, 12:52 PM   #11
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PuMA --

Products and Measures Aftersales --

the official Tech line for BMW Centers -- cases are submitted and reviewed.
tech analysis and responses for given condition are assessed and approved for repair with an associated case number. helps to track and define product defects in an orderly and retraceable fashion.
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      09-28-2010, 01:51 PM   #12
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Interesting and a bit surprising, but nonetheless very good news ! (not that I would care, my warranty expires next month )
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      09-28-2010, 02:05 PM   #13
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I would say this as "You took a chance and you got lucky"...
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      09-28-2010, 02:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
PuMA --

Products and Measures Aftersales --

the official Tech line for BMW Centers -- cases are submitted and reviewed.
tech analysis and responses for given condition are assessed and approved for repair with an associated case number. helps to track and define product defects in an orderly and retraceable fashion.
Thanks!
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      09-28-2010, 02:49 PM   #15
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Serious?! That was my biggest fear and reason for going with JB3 over GIAC. Great news. What dealership did you go to?
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      09-28-2010, 03:00 PM   #16
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Serious?! That was my biggest fear and reason for going with JB3 over GIAC. Great news. What dealership did you go to?
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
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      09-28-2010, 03:12 PM   #17
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On a technical side, could GIAC possibly change the encryption keys so BMW wouldn't be able to decrypt the firmware? That would be awesome but at the same time, BMW would use that to detect non-BMW firmware.

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Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
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      09-28-2010, 03:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Seriously?

Did you not read the GIAC thread? The GIAC software passes checksum tests. Unless they download the entire firmware from his ECU, then run it through a disassembler software and then begin comparing things, it won't be possible to detect the flash software...
Good to know. I just kept hearing different things from people, all based on assumptions. But now that someone has actually been to the dealer and back, I feel better about it. I was most worried about a possible fuel pump problem and the possibility of software uploading to BMW NA after opening up a PUMA case.
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      09-28-2010, 04:33 PM   #19
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ahhhh, i am moving to you and getting a stage 2 flash then....if the dealers over there were like the dealers over here, my life would be easy. I wouldnt go so far as to say anyone who has a flash is good at any dealer, obviously the relationship you have with the guy there plays some role in this one way or another ( big or small). thats great to hear you can have an exhaust and flash and service it anytime.... careful when something related to the tune pops up on the fault list though. you would be surprised how quick relationships fly when someone job is on the line. god forbid your turbos go, it will be like WHAT?? that guy??? he came in here all the time with these crazy modifications??? what a hooligan!!!
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      09-28-2010, 05:03 PM   #20
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one has to consider that a good relationship at the dealer is essential -- well if you bought the car from them, then that should be a given.

in the old days that went a long way in how irregular situation were handled. BMW had no fixed policy on good will / buy-backs were unheard of, and customers just loved their decently powered sports sedan/coupes...

having that relation with the dealer was (and still is vital) -- but a lot could go overlooked, and in all fairness, BMW started looking at things more closely -- cost of repairs for "unusual" cases started to creep up.

as time passed horsepower increased, systems grew more complex, repair cost rose. so to be critical of the vehicle operation and assure it is a parts or workmanship defect is prudent.

i doubt sincerely that the tune would escape the engineers if the situation presented itself.
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      09-28-2010, 05:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
one has to consider that a good relationship at the dealer is essential -- well if you bought the car from them, then that should be a given.

in the old days that went a long way in how irregular situation were handled. BMW had no fixed policy on good will / buy-backs were unheard of, and customers just loved their decently powered sports sedan/coupes...

having that relation with the dealer was (and still is vital) -- but a lot could go overlooked, and in all fairness, BMW started looking at things more closely -- cost of repairs for "unusual" cases started to creep up.

as time passed horsepower increased, systems grew more complex, repair cost rose. so to be critical of the vehicle operation and assure it is a parts or workmanship defect is prudent.

i doubt sincerely that the tune would escape the engineers if the situation presented itself.
I agree...I commend you on your posts lately, they are level headed and true 100%

Relationship goes a lot further then anything else. I dont care what tune you run, if they want to know they can know.

Its when your dealership tells you to get a "tune" they are "great" then you know your in a safe place.
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      09-28-2010, 05:26 PM   #22
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agreed, you have a unique situation, I am not sure if GIAC would stand behind bringing a car flashed with their software to the dealer for Warranty Repairs.
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