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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Some V3 and JB3 Timing Logs - For Technical Discussion!



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      07-29-2009, 02:26 PM   #89
Mike@N54Tuning.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma
I have logged both tunes myself and have a difficult time accepting so much throttle plate closure on the Procede logs by Mike/Terry.
Check out these logs from JP that have the same closure we experienced. Maybe it's a Stage 3 thing? Either way not a big deal like I said in that thread. Just interesting.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=36
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      07-29-2009, 02:28 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Are either of you running Stage 3, on 91 octane, in 100 degree ambient temperatures?

Mike
You have 91 octane and 100 degree ambient temps in Canada?
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      07-29-2009, 02:40 PM   #91
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Mike, you don't give up, do u? Spend this time improving your product instead of providing doctored data from competing products. Because in 2 weeks, you're going to have even more work on your hands.

Shiv
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      07-29-2009, 02:53 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Mike, you don't give up, do u? Spend this time improving your product instead of providing doctored data from competing products. Because in 2 weeks, you're going to have even more work on your hands.

Shiv
Shiv, most of these logs are from your customers if I am not mistaken.

Mike
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      07-29-2009, 08:03 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Check out these logs from JP that have the same closure we experienced. Maybe it's a Stage 3 thing? Either way not a big deal like I said in that thread. Just interesting.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=36
Yes....I noticed that too.

Like I said earlier, I logged similar throttle closures with the early beta maps on stage 1.

The current stage 1 maps are much better.

Maybe you are right about it being more prevalent on stage 3 maps where boost pressure runs higher, especially with JP running 89% user torque.
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      07-29-2009, 08:56 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got psi View Post
Whats in two weeks?!?
autopilot!!!
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      07-30-2009, 12:29 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got psi View Post
I was hoping for something juicy.
Auto tune feature on Procede....aka Autopilot = something juicy
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      07-30-2009, 10:05 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Here is a log that was posted here that illustrates how much timing moves around by gear. Almost a 10 degree drop in parts by RPM. Most telling is that this is completely different than what we see in same gear dyno pulls. Mind you this is also with 3 degrees of offset in place.

This demonstrates the ECU's reliance on knock sensor feedback, stock or modified, with or without CPS offsetting in place.

Mike
Hi Mike, how can you assume/conclude/state that the decrease in timing is due to the ECU's reliance on knock sensor feedback alone?
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      07-30-2009, 01:00 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmotornutz View Post
Hi Mike, how can you assume/conclude/state that the decrease in timing is due to the ECU's reliance on knock sensor feedback alone?
That conclusion is based on eliminating the other contributors. Such as:

1) Boost. Was the same throughout the run in each gear.
2) Gearing. We've seen in same gear single gear pulls timing values are consistently much higher.
3) IAT. We've seen logs showing IAT decreasing throughout the run, yet still having these large timing drops.

There is also a new factor that was introduced, rate of acceleration, which we'll have to study. Will that explain a ~10 degree timing drop? I don't think so, but this is a discussion forum so lets explore it. I will say that I only have to show ~1 degree of consistent "knock retard" with CPS offsetting in place to prove that timing is always floating / always riding the knock sensors.

Mike
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      07-30-2009, 01:40 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
There is also a new factor that was introduced, rate of acceleration, which we'll have to study.
Kind of strange that you guys haven't studied this. It's the biggest contributor to knock thresholds and boost pattern.

Quote:
Will that explain a ~10 degree timing drop? I don't think so, but this is a discussion forum so lets explore it. I will say that I only have to show ~1 degree of consistent "knock retard" with CPS offsetting in place to prove that timing is always floating / always riding the knock sensors.
We've already proved that the DME isn't always floating/riding the knock sensor. Where have you been?

-shiv
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      07-31-2009, 11:32 AM   #99
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Quote:
Kind of strange that you guys haven't studied this. It's the biggest contributor to knock thresholds and boost pattern.
If you read my first post I'm not claiming to know everything, but its always been clear from non-CPS logs that timing drops per gear. It wasn't until I saw JP's datalog showing a dramatic drop with a well tuned CPS in place that the mechanism for what causes that drop became a subject of this debate. You've never made any mention of it in this entire timing discussion. I haven't seen BMS bring this up either. So it seems to be a new subject to discuss.

Quote:
We've already proved that the DME isn't always floating/riding the knock sensor. Where have you been?
You've said that you've proved it, over and over, but I don't think your data supports that conclusion. Neither does the data of your customers. The data shows timing moving up and down based on "knock" factors. If you take logs, and crop them to a very narrow window, you can show that you're riding the max timing in parts. Provided you don't shift, and never operate the motor below 5500rpm, but that isn't very practical in the real world is it? The dyno data you and your customers provided also showed that steep timing drops do not always correlate with knock/detonation.

Mike
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