E90Post
 


ECS BMW
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > BMW close to being exempted from New Fuel Economy Standards



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-28-2009, 10:04 AM   #1
xsb00st
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Slow
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Earth

Posts: 1,530
iTrader: (21)

WSJ Article: Fuel Rules to Spare BMW, Daimler

By STEPHEN POWER

German luxury auto makers including BMW AG and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz are close to benefiting from a U.S. concession that will allow them and a few other foreign makers to keep selling cars that emit more greenhouse gases than those made by mass-market rivals such as General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp.

Under a provision of a plan to curb greenhouse gas emissions, the Obama administration has proposed to set less stringent standards for car makers that sell fewer than 400,000 vehicles a year in the U.S. That target defines the major German brands as well as a few smaller Asian manufacturers such as Suzuki Motor Corp. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp.


The easier targets are expected to apply to a limited portion of a car maker's sales volume, and last for about four years -- unless the government grants an extension.

"Once companies become dependent on these provisions, they have an incentive to hire lobbyists and exert political pressure to extend those same provisions," said John Graham, who helped craft automobile fuel-economy regulations under President George W. Bush.

"The German provision" -- as it is known to industry lobbyists -- resembles a California law that effectively exempts some foreign car makers from having to meet the same emissions standards as their U.S. rivals. BMW and Daimler declined to say whether they lobbied for the provision.

In effect, the provision would make it easier for Mercedes to keep selling cars like its $147,000, 12-cylinder S600 sedan, rated at 13 miles per gallon, while GM or Toyota would be required to meet tougher mileage standards with smaller, more efficient cars.

The rules are expected to be formally proposed later this year by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation to enforce the administration's mandate that makers boost the average fuel efficiency of their fleets to 35.5 miles mpg by 2016.

Executives from most major car makers doing business in the U.S. backed Mr. Obama's fuel economy plan at a White House ceremony in May.

"We wanted to make sure that the entire proposal was something the industry could support," said Jody Freeman, counselor in the White House Office of Energy and Climate Change, who helped negotiate the agreement among car makers.

Between 2007 and 2008, the U.S. collected $76 million in fines from German auto makers for violating fuel-economy regulations, according to a government report published this year. The German companies say the U.S. rules are unfair, since as makers of sporty, powerful vehicles they cannot offset their most gas-guzzling models with smaller, more fuel-efficient models as easily as can high-volume car manufacturers with broader product ranges.

A spokesman for GM -- now majority-owned by the federal government -- said the Obama administration's proposal "creates fewer concerns" than California's policy because it is expected to exempt only a quarter of each qualifying auto maker's fleet, rather than all vehicles sold by those companies. It also would be in effect for only four years, compared with seven under the California program.

Other industry experts and some former government policy makers take a more critical view of the administration's plan.

David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research at the University of Michigan, said the provision would hand "a distinct competitive advantage" to German and other exempted companies that compete with the major U.S. and Japanese brands in the U.S.

Daniel Becker, director of the Washington-based Safe Climate Campaign, which advocates tougher regulation of automotive fuel economy and greenhouse-gas emissions, said BMW and Mercedes "should be required to meet the same standards as General Motors and Ford."

"Once companies become dependent on these provisions, they have an incentive to hire lobbyists and exert political pressure to extend those same provisions," said John Graham, who helped craft automobile fuel-economy regulations under President George W. Bush.

Spokespeople for Daimler and BMW said the provision would be consistent with similar regulations adopted by the European Union as well as California regulators.

Vehicles made by Mercedes and some other lower-volume manufacturers, a Daimler spokesman added, "typically are heavier due to more safety equipment and enhanced electronics that are absent from vehicles in the large-volume manufacturer segment."

A spokesman for Porsche AG said the German sports-car company "will comply with any future fuel and emission standards but cannot discuss the details on how this will affect us until we have seen the key provisions and exact language of the rules."
xsb00st is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 10:09 AM   #2
skh
Enlisted Member
 
skh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 325i - SpG
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 43
iTrader: (0)

BMW close to being exempted from New Fuel Economy Standards

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124873997073285323.html

Quote:
German luxury auto makers including BMW AG and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz are close to benefitting from a U.S. concession that will allow them and a few other foreign makers to keep selling cars that emit more greenhouse gases than those made by mass-market rivals such as General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp.

Under a provision of a plan to curb greenhouse gas emissions, the Obama administration has proposed to set less stringent standards for car makers that sell fewer than 400,000 vehicles a year in the U.S. That target defines the major German brands as well as a few smaller Asian manufacturers such as Suzuki Motor Corp. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp.


The easier targets are expected to apply to a limited portion of a car maker's sales volume, and last for about four years -- unless the government grants an extension.

"Once companies become dependent on these provisions, they have an incentive to hire lobbyists and exert political pressure to extend those same provisions," said John Graham, who helped craft automobile fuel-economy regulations under President George W. Bush.

"The German provision" -- as it is known to industry lobbyists -- resembles a California law that effectively exempts some foreign car makers from having to meet the same emissions standards as their U.S. rivals. BMW and Daimler declined to say whether they lobbied for the provision.

In effect, the provision would make it easier for Mercedes to keep selling cars like its $147,000, 12-cylinder S600 sedan, rated at 13 miles per gallon, while GM or Toyota would be required to meet tougher mileage standards with smaller, more efficient cars.

The rules are expected to be formally proposed later this year by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation to enforce the administration's mandate that makers boost the average fuel efficiency of their fleets to 35.5 miles mpg by 2016.

Executives from most major car makers doing business in the U.S. backed Mr. Obama's fuel economy plan at a White House ceremony in May.

"We wanted to make sure that the entire proposal was something the industry could support," said Jody Freeman, counselor in the White House Office of Energy and Climate Change, who helped negotiate the agreement among car makers.

Between 2007 and 2008, the U.S. collected $76 million in fines from German auto makers for violating fuel-economy regulations, according to a government report published this year. The German companies say the U.S. rules are unfair, since as makers of sporty, powerful vehicles they cannot offset their most gas-guzzling models with smaller, more fuel-efficient models as easily as can high-volume car manufacturers with broader product ranges.

A spokesman for GM -- now majority-owned by the federal government -- said the Obama administration's proposal "creates fewer concerns" than California's policy because it is expected to exempt only a quarter of each qualifying auto maker's fleet, rather than all vehicles sold by those companies. It also would be in effect for only four years, compared with seven under the California program.

Other industry experts and some former government policy makers take a more critical view of the administration's plan.

David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research at the University of Michigan, said the provision would hand "a distinct competitive advantage" to German and other exempted companies that compete with the major U.S. and Japanese brands in the U.S.

Daniel Becker, director of the Washington-based Safe Climate Campaign, which advocates tougher regulation of automotive fuel economy and greenhouse-gas emissions, said BMW and Mercedes "should be required to meet the same standards as General Motors and Ford."

"Once companies become dependent on these provisions, they have an incentive to hire lobbyists and exert political pressure to extend those same provisions," said John Graham, who helped craft automobile fuel-economy regulations under President George W. Bush.

Spokespeople for Daimler and BMW said the provision would be consistent with similar regulations adopted by the European Union as well as California regulators.

Vehicles made by Mercedes and some other lower-volume manufacturers, a Daimler spokesman added, "typically are heavier due to more safety equipment and enhanced electronics that are absent from vehicles in the large-volume manufacturer segment."

A spokesman for Porsche AG said the German sports-car company "will comply with any future fuel and emission standards but cannot discuss the details on how this will affect us until we have seen the key provisions and exact language of the rules."
__________________
2006 E90 325i - SpG/Step/Nav/Prem/Xenon/BT
Mods - 162s/Painted Splitters
skh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 11:31 AM   #3
jopa489
BMW/Detailing Addict
 
jopa489's Avatar
 
Drives: Estoril F30 335i 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New England

Posts: 6,561
iTrader: (8)

I'm all for weight savings and turbo 4-bangers (and some smaller diesels) but this would be fantastic. Putting such a high requirement on BMW would take something away from the driving experience - and that's why we love these cars.

Similar to back in the 70s when everyone started cost cutting and using tiny engines, the cars were awful (from what I hear, not old enough to know this first hand).

I'm confident BMW R&D will make even the cheaper, less powerful, and more fuel efficient models drive like a BMW should. Maybe I'm not the greenest person on the planet, but I like cars, power, and driving.

Let the zombies sitting in the left lane doing 10 under the limit drive the super green cars - they wouldn't know the difference anyway.
__________________

jopa489 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 12:00 PM   #4
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,145
iTrader: (0)

This really saves Porsche more than anything else. I'm sure this was part of some concessions we obtained from Germany regarding their involvement in our own little pet projects that we have going on in the world.

Mercedes and Porsche are already freaking out over the new EU CO2 requirements so easing the rules in their largest market (U.S.) helps take off some of the sting.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 12:02 PM   #5
ragingclue
My interior is turrible
 
ragingclue's Avatar
 
Drives: stickferanaxle
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: mulletville

Posts: 6,717
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
This really saves Porsche more than anything else. I'm sure this was part of some concessions we obtained from Germany regarding their involvement in our own little pet projects that we have going on in the world.

Mercedes and Porsche are already freaking out over the new EU CO2 requirements so easing the rules in their largest market (U.S.) helps take off some of the sting.
I thought that Porsche was able to group its figures with VW/Audi to get around this. Is that not the case? Wasn't that Lambo's out? And Ferrari grouping with Fiat? Or is that just for European standards?
ragingclue is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 01:03 PM   #6
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,145
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
I thought that Porsche was able to group its figures with VW/Audi to get around this. Is that not the case? Wasn't that Lambo's out? And Ferrari grouping with Fiat? Or is that just for European standards?
I think that may have been why Porsche tried to buy VW (which IIRC is currently flipped around but deal is not done). IIRC Porsche had initially tried to get a waiver as a low volume producer (~6x,000 cars year) that number appears to have shifted somewhat judging from the OP. I read this about 2 years ago in The Economist so my numbers are probably off.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 01:05 PM   #7
ohaywood
Major
 
ohaywood's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 JB/Saddle E92 335i
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Malibu, CA

Posts: 1,011
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ohaywood
Love this.
__________________
ohaywood is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 02:25 PM   #8
Indy335iCp
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe BSM/CR
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Indianapolis

Posts: 113
iTrader: (0)

And the world rejoices....
Indy335iCp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 06:15 PM   #9
pruettfan
Major
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

Posts: 1,482
iTrader: (0)

I know Maybach, Ferrari, Lamborgini and many other european companies were lobbying for this. Of course all of those cars bring luxury tax dollars so I am sure that is one of the more compelling reasons. I am sure BME will do more over the years to get better economy but my car gets 28 mpg on the freeway, seems like expecting much more is silly. I am not totally convinced that these CAFE standards will be fully implemented.
pruettfan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 06:22 PM   #10
NaTuReB0Y
Powered By 36DD
 
NaTuReB0Y's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Inland Empire

Posts: 7,381
iTrader: (12)

These are probably the companies that killed the electric cars..........
__________________
2006 E90 330i Jet Black | 20" WORK VS-XX | FK452 | H&R Sport on Koni Yellow | REMUS QUAD
NaTuReB0Y is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 07:06 PM   #11
AZ-BMW
Captain
 
AZ-BMW's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 M3 E93 w/DCT
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny, Warm AZ

Posts: 966
iTrader: (0)

One down, one to go: Now they need to find a way to eliminate the Gas Guzzler tax
__________________

2009 AW M3 E93 - Black Novillo|DCT|ZTP|ZPP|752 Enh Audio|4UT|Heated Seats|6FL|6NF|
For jpg's: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=186382&page=4
Traded: 2007 335i E93
AZ-BMW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 07:30 PM   #12
stickypaws
Dictator
 
stickypaws's Avatar
 
Drives: people crazy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: where you want to be

Posts: 1,817
iTrader: (0)

Good.

Let us buy the big, safe, and super fast cars, everybody else buy the efficient little cars, and then quit building SUVs. Except maybe a few pickup trucks for farmers and ranchers and a couple of people who live out in the boonies and have to tow their boat 1000 miles to the nearest water.

Perfect. That's the world according to me.
stickypaws is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 10:11 PM   #13
the infamous...
Relapsed Bimmerpost Addict
 
the infamous...'s Avatar
 
Drives: like I'M BOUT THAT LIFE
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PARADISE aka CANES COUNTRY

Posts: 17,538
iTrader: (0)

...what more could I say?
the infamous... is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 10:35 PM   #14
RSNGH
#SDG
 
RSNGH's Avatar
 
Drives: LCI E92
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York

Posts: 1,843
iTrader: (8)

anyone know waht picture is that or from what post in the home page that ahite m3 looks sick
RSNGH is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2009, 10:36 PM   #15
LateBraking
Brigadier General
 
LateBraking's Avatar
 
Drives: Reliable Cars
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pacific Standard Time

Posts: 3,878
iTrader: (27)

YES!




LateBraking is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 01:50 AM   #16
vAnt826
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,410
iTrader: (3)

Wait, how is this going to work?

Will Lexus/Audi/Infiniti be counted with Toyota/VW/Nissan or without?
vAnt826 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 02:36 AM   #17
M3_WC
Colonel
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 2,203
iTrader: (0)

Do the treehuggers know their savior Obama is doing this this?

It will break the prius driving green freaks little hearts.

Bring on the twin turbo 12 cylinder gas eating monsters.
M3_WC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 05:25 AM   #18
Peter@VMRWheels
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Peter@VMRWheels's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 Space Gray E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 662
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Peter@VMRWheels
Seems that BMW can easily find some ways to comply with the MPG requirement... such as changing the hp/torque curve, or creating a more defined "Sport" vs "Regular" mode like the one found on the M5. Or they can seriously detune the motors to leave the dirty work to chip tuners . There are lots of things one can do to manipulate MPG especially on a turbo car!

Lets hope our gov't does not implement a tax based on the engine size.. These laws are crazy in Europe & Asia. I think this would be catastrophic!
__________________
VMR | Wheels
Tel: 714-442-7916 | Email:sales@velocitymotoring.com | URL: www.velocitymotoring.com | VMR Facebook!! | VMR Photoshoots!

VMR Collection >> V701 | V710 | V713 | V715 | V718 | VB3 19x10
Peter@VMRWheels is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 06:32 AM   #19
Big Windy
Major General
 
Big Windy's Avatar
 
Drives: audi s4
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: seatac, wa

Posts: 5,118
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I think that may have been why Porsche tried to buy VW (which IIRC is currently flipped around but deal is not done). IIRC Porsche had initially tried to get a waiver as a low volume producer (~6x,000 cars year) that number appears to have shifted somewhat judging from the OP. I read this about 2 years ago in The Economist so my numbers are probably off.

You are dead on. The deal failed (and the CEO and CFO are losing their jobs because of it), but it was targeted at acquiring VW for the sake of fuel and emissions regulations. If Porsche could lump their vehicles under the massive VW umbrella, they would be essentially be shielded from future laws and regulations.
__________________
Big Windy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 07:46 AM   #20
The Cthulhu
Banned
 
Drives: N/A
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: N/A

Posts: 197
iTrader: (0)

efficient engine R&D and weight reduction are good things
The Cthulhu is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 09:15 AM   #21
philip
BMW addict
 
philip's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf 7 GTI / F10 530d
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Antwerp

Posts: 276
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romiie View Post
anyone know waht picture is that or from what post in the home page that ahite m3 looks sick
HERE:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279471
philip is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      07-29-2009, 11:02 AM   #22
Imola.ZHP
No car payments...
 
Imola.ZHP's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 BMW 330i ZHP
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mud Island, TN

Posts: 1,955
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Imola.ZHP Send a message via MSN to Imola.ZHP Send a message via Yahoo to Imola.ZHP
Makes perfect sense to me, and I agree with the decision. Average of 35.5mpg would force BMW to sell higher MPG cars almost against their own will. Toyota, on the other hand, loves selling high MPG cars...
__________________

Marcus
-- 330i ZHP
-- Build Date 03/03/03
Imola.ZHP is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST