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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dual Cone Filters with JB+



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      08-04-2009, 03:42 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
I'm afraid you can't show this on a dyno curve.
This is something you will only feel using your car IRL, without super effective high speed fans blowing on you engine during a dyno test...
It is just to make the dyno run with open hood, which will provide the sufficient air supply.
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      08-04-2009, 03:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
It is just to make the dyno run with open hood, which will provide the sufficient air supply.
Open hood?!

You can't imagine how high the temperature can be under the hood while driving at low speeds.
Opening the hood makes the test totally misleading.

Last edited by Big Tom; 08-04-2009 at 04:09 AM.
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      08-04-2009, 04:20 AM   #25
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Let's see if Mike can back up his statement with figures, either a dyno pull or a 1/4 mile figure.
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      08-04-2009, 04:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
Let's see if Mike can back up his statement with figures, either a dyno pull or a 1/4 mile figure.
I don't know were you use to drive your car the most, but I normally use mine as a everyday driver. Which includes driving in the city at low speeds.
I don't take it so often (never) to the race way for a couple of 1/4 mile-pulls.

It's how the cars works IRL that matters to me.
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      08-04-2009, 05:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
I don't know were you use to drive your car the most, but I normally use mine as a everyday driver. Which includes driving in the city at low speeds.
I don't take it so often (never) to the race way for a couple of 1/4 mile-pulls.

It's how the cars works IRL that matters to me.
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      08-04-2009, 05:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
Might as well just get the BMS. I dont think the CAIs proved to give any more HP over them at 3x the price.
You might want to read my shootout of the STETT Performance CAI versus DCI.
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      08-04-2009, 05:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
I have done some testing with and without my homemade heatshield around the DCI-filters.
And with the heatshield mounted I did lower my AIT with 59 F (15 C), and the power feels much more stable then before.
When I was driving the car in the city at low speeds, I could feel a distinct loss of power without the heatshield.

The engine prefers cold air, even if you have a better IC mounted on your car.
Thats a fact.
Did you test with and without that shield in identical conditions?
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      08-04-2009, 05:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
Did you test with and without that shield in identical conditions?
Of course.
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      08-04-2009, 06:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
Any dynos to share with us?
Hood up or hood down on those dynos?
Before and after?
I posted a dyno earlier, but track results are what really count. Back to back VBOX testing has been posted before showing the open intakes work on the road.

The problem with this debate is that most don't really understand or care to understand the physics involved beyond "hot air is bad". The high flow intakes are used by all tuners because of their reduction of boost solenoid duty cycle at higher boost levels. They are safer for the compressors and generate a lot more power.

Mike
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      08-04-2009, 06:17 AM   #32
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DCI's at WOT are sucking in 20x the amount of air within your engine bay per second... plus 95% of the cooling occurs at the intercooler, so hotter intake temps at the DCI is not an issue. There is maths to back this up, it has been posted on here before.
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      08-04-2009, 06:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsboost View Post
DCI's at WOT are sucking in 20x the amount of air within your engine bay per second... plus 95% of the cooling occurs at the intercooler, so hotter intake temps at the DCI is not an issue. There is maths to back this up, it has been posted on here before.
I can't believe that you didn't read what I just wrote.
59F (15C) lower AIT at the same ambient conditions with a heat shield mounted, measured after the IC...

Why do you think so many tuning companies are selling heat shields with their open filter systems to other car brands?

Why do you think the BMW engineers placed the cold air intake to the OEM filterbox?

And why do you think BMW has developed the "BMW Performance Air Intake System"?: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...akeSystem.aspx

Not just for the fun, believe me on that.

Last edited by Big Tom; 08-04-2009 at 07:38 AM.
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      08-04-2009, 01:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I posted a dyno earlier, but track results are what really count. Back to back VBOX testing has been posted before showing the open intakes work on the road.

The problem with this debate is that most don't really understand or care to understand the physics involved beyond "hot air is bad". The high flow intakes are used by all tuners because of their reduction of boost solenoid duty cycle at higher boost levels. They are safer for the compressors and generate a lot more power.

Mike
So Mike, what was the actual dyno figures and what is the track figure improvement with DC on top of JB+ ?
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      08-04-2009, 06:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I posted a dyno earlier, but track results are what really count. Back to back VBOX testing has been posted before showing the open intakes work on the road.

The problem with this debate is that most don't really understand or care to understand the physics involved beyond "hot air is bad". The high flow intakes are used by all tuners because of their reduction of boost solenoid duty cycle at higher boost levels. They are safer for the compressors and generate a lot more power.

Mike
Could you post a link to it? I would appreciate it.
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      08-04-2009, 06:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
I can't believe that you didn't read what I just wrote.
59F (15C) lower AIT at the same ambient conditions with a heat shield mounted, measured after the IC...

Why do you think so many tuning companies are selling heat shields with their open filter systems to other car brands?

Why do you think the BMW engineers placed the cold air intake to the OEM filterbox?

And why do you think BMW has developed the "BMW Performance Air Intake System"?: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...akeSystem.aspx

Not just for the fun, believe me on that.
How did you build your heat shield/>
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      08-04-2009, 07:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
Could you post a link to it? I would appreciate it.
This was using a Stage 2 tune at 13-14psi. From 5000-redline (where you are during a 1/4 mile pull) the average pickup is 10-12whp under the curve. With the newer tunes holding more boost to redline, the gains are even higher.

Mike
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      08-05-2009, 12:34 AM   #38
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Thanks Mike, great :-)
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      08-08-2009, 03:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
This was using a Stage 2 tune at 13-14psi. From 5000-redline (where you are during a 1/4 mile pull) the average pickup is 10-12whp under the curve. With the newer tunes holding more boost to redline, the gains are even higher.

Mike
And here's what really happens when you use DCI's: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290054

Please do notice that the test in the link was performed with an upgraded IC...
Imagine what would happen with the stock one.
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      08-08-2009, 07:04 AM   #40
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You can see the heat soak in the IAT graph... Id say the DCI is great for the drag strip. Run 1/4, pull car down return, park, lift hood and cool... Repeat.

For DD, road, autox, etc etc, a true CAI or stock box is better it seems. DCI may even be better in the winter? It all depends on what your IAT's are.
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      08-08-2009, 02:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
And here's what really happens when you use DCI's: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290054

Please do notice that the test in the link was performed with an upgraded IC...
Imagine what would happen with the stock one.
I looked at that thread and saw he made more power on the dual cones. Check out this thread with hood down testing. More power and less work for the turbos seems like a win/win to me...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290093

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      08-08-2009, 02:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I looked at that thread and saw he made more power on the dual cones. Check out this thread with hood down testing. More power and less work for the turbos seems like a win/win to me...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290093

Mike
Maybye you'll have to read what he wrote in his thread again:
"Each of these represent the best out of 2-3 runs in each configuration." ...and you would have realised that this test has nothing to do with the heat soak-issue that will appear with the DCI's mounted on the engine after a couple of WOT's.
The reason for this is because he chose to compare the best results from each run.

The discussion is about consistent power, and not about top effect!

The test Mr. 5 did shows what will happen IRL. That's it.

Last edited by Big Tom; 08-08-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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      08-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tom View Post
Maybye you'll have to read what he wrote in his thread again:
"Each of these represent the best out of 2-3 runs in each configuration." ...and you would have realised that this test has nothing to do with the heat soak-issue that will appear with the DCI's mounted on the engine after a couple of WOT's.
The reason for this is because he chose to compare the best results from each run.

The discussion is about consistent power, and not about top effect!

The test Mr. 5 did shows what will happen IRL. That's it.
What are you talking about? Each run was started with matching IAT and oil temperatures according to the thread, around 100 degrees IAT, hood closed, with 30mph fan. The results are pretty clear and also match Mr. 5's results. If you want to run your stock airbox that is great but you are leaving some serious HP on the table and working your turbos harder.

Mike
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      08-08-2009, 05:38 PM   #44
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I see a couple people being disrespectful here and it isn't the vendor.

Why is it you guys need to defend your positions by being so aggressive? You don't win an argument by being an ahole.

Anyway, from what I gather... the guys arguing against the DCI are the ones that have never used it. Get some experience with the mod then make a judgement. I don't hear a lot of guys that own DCI's saying "OMG Its so hot that I had to put my stock airbox back on."

Shrug, to each their own. Personally, I love my DCI and have no intentions of going back to the stock box.
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