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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Changing from JB and Proceede to GIAC ? why ?



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      08-05-2009, 09:27 AM   #1
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Changing from JB and Proceede to GIAC ? why ?

am just little curious bout why so many of u guys out there want to change from JB and Proceede to GIAC ?

is it because:

- u want to try something new ?
- the giac is way better then jb and proceede ?
- u want to get rid of the piggyback ?

would be interesting to hear , since am thinking of tuning my car later on
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      08-05-2009, 10:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerDejan View Post
am just little curious bout why so many of u guys out there want to change from JB and Proceede to GIAC ?

is it because:

- u want to try something new ?
- the giac is way better then jb and proceede ?
- u want to get rid of the piggyback ?

would be interesting to hear , since am thinking of tuning my car later on
Mostly,

1) Trying something new.
2) Getting rid of the piggyback hassle.

Not that I'm switching, just my thoughts and observations for the past 2.5 years.
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      08-05-2009, 02:02 PM   #3
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okok , i see

but do the piggys hassle a lot ? :S havent seen that recently ... should be very stable at this point or ? : )
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      08-05-2009, 03:39 PM   #4
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The hassle of a piggy back is having to remove it to go to the dealer.
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      08-05-2009, 03:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerDejan View Post
okok , i see

but do the piggys hassle a lot ? :S havent seen that recently ... should be very stable at this point or ? : )
I was talking more about the install/remove hassle, rather then stability. At this point they all (piggys) very stable, it rather depends on the end user if the unit is installed and run properly.
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      08-05-2009, 03:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG View Post
I was talking more about the install/remove hassle, rather then stability. At this point they all (piggys) very stable, it rather depends on the end user if the unit is installed and run properly.
However, since there is no easy way to revert back to stock for the flash at this point what about the hassle have having to go back to revert the flash to stock then once again to revert the stock car back to a flashed car...?
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      08-05-2009, 04:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhcoug2011 View Post
However, since there is no easy way to revert back to stock for the flash at this point what about the hassle have having to go back to revert the flash to stock then once again to revert the stock car back to a flashed car...?

+1.... There both when it comes to the dealer visits. If u dunn want any hasle dunn tune ur car. If u want more power this is what u gotta go through.
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      08-05-2009, 05:26 PM   #8
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I have spoken to some of the GIAC dealers who have been testing their cars on the flash for the last few months, and they said that it beats all piggybacks in terms of linear power and smoothness, as well as overall efficiency. They say that the car just feels faster as compared to any JB or other piggy backs.

A few downsides that I have seen:

1) You cannot "switch maps" or put it back to stock or "valet" mode on the fly with just the flash, but you can buy an extra “cable kit” to turn off the settings which is over $100.

2) The power dyno numbers that are claimed are a bit lower, quoted to be about +65 HP rwhp on 91 pump gas, and no map switching for 100 race gas = the 80+ rwhp claimed from JB.

3) You cannot take out the flash and sell it if you want to sell the car, trade it in, or just be done with the tune. (kind of important to me to have a resell value)

4) Even though our ECU "adjusts" to external environmental settings, according to some dealers, the Stage 1 GIAC Flash works well with intakes and exhaust systems, but no FMIC's or DP's as of yet, which will be supported in their Stage 3 flash several months down the road.

On the plus side:

From what the dealers have said, the GIAC is just a better tune overall for the car then a piggyback because of the code reflash. The price is good, higher then the JB3 PnP, but cheaper than the PROceed.

I am in no way experienced in N54 tuning; I just have been making some calls and gathering info on the GIAC since I heard about it. It sounds like a great tune, but I kind of like being able to turn off the tune if my GF drives the car or if I drop it off somewhere. I am still up in the air, and if used JB3 PnP chips are going for $400 shipped, I am leaning towards that route. For the price of the GIAC flash, you can get a JB3 and that sick OEM looking Vent Gauge.
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      08-05-2009, 05:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth335 View Post
I have spoken to some of the GIAC dealers who have been testing their cars on the flash for the last few months, and they said that it beats all piggybacks in terms of linear power and smoothness, as well as overall efficiency. They say that the car just feels faster as compared to any JB or other piggy backs.

A few downsides that I have seen:

1) You cannot "switch maps" or put it back to stock or "valet" mode on the fly with just the flash, but you can buy an extra “cable kit” to turn off the settings which is over $100.

2) The power dyno numbers that are claimed are a bit lower, quoted to be about +65 HP rwhp on 91 pump gas, and no map switching for 100 race gas = the 80+ rwhp claimed from JB.

3) You cannot take out the flash and sell it if you want to sell the car, trade it in, or just be done with the tune. (kind of important to me to have a resell value)

4) Even though our ECU "adjusts" to external environmental settings, according to some dealers, the Stage 1 GIAC Flash works well with intakes and exhaust systems, but no FMIC's or DP's as of yet, which will be supported in their Stage 3 flash several months down the road.

On the plus side:

From what the dealers have said, the GIAC is just a better tune overall for the car then a piggyback because of the code reflash. The price is good, higher then the JB3 PnP, but cheaper than the PROceed.

I am in no way experienced in N54 tuning; I just have been making some calls and gathering info on the GIAC since I heard about it. It sounds like a great tune, but I kind of like being able to turn off the tune if my GF drives the car or if I drop it off somewhere. I am still up in the air, and if used JB3 PnP chips are going for $400 shipped, I am leaning towards that route. For the price of the GIAC flash, you can get a JB3 and that sick OEM looking Vent Gauge.
+100

I just do not see the GIAC offering enough at the CURRENT moment to be able to sway most people. However IMHO, whenever they figure out the map switching and release Stage 2/2+ you can be sure the GIAC flash will become very popular!
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      08-05-2009, 05:45 PM   #10
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do realize that only stage 1 is out. Pretty much for a stock car. You will see higher gains on modified cars with GIAC 2 I am sure.
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      08-05-2009, 05:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
do realize that only stage 1 is out. Pretty much for a stock car. You will see higher gains on modified cars with GIAC 2 I am sure.
True but IMHO it will be months before we see the map switcher or any upgraded stage maps available...
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      08-05-2009, 06:10 PM   #12
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I won't buy it without the map switcher. I think many are in that same boat. They should make haste...
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      08-05-2009, 06:17 PM   #13
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The power results are roughly the same as I got from my Dinan tune. It is much cheaper than what I paid but it has an issue of being noticed at the dealer. I still have not seen a flash go beyond 14psi. That is important since only piggybacks can currently run aftermarket turbos that require 15-20psi. Otherwise it sounds like a good option. GIAC is a good company to work with. They do flashes for Audi, Porsche and other high end cars.
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      08-05-2009, 06:19 PM   #14
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Map switching is just that, map switching. You cannot remove the map for dealer visits unless you reflash (must be done by a GIAC dealer).
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      08-05-2009, 06:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vAnt826 View Post
Map switching is just that, map switching. You cannot remove the map for dealer visits unless you reflash (must be done by a GIAC dealer).
Not true, there is supposed to be a stock map included when the map switch is released...
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      08-05-2009, 06:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasspeed View Post
The power results are roughly the same as I got from my Dinan tune.
Sorry, no chance in hell you made 65whp on 91oct with no other mods with just a Dinan tune.

What does Dinan stage 1 or whatever make, 20whp? That's a huge difference.
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      08-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
Sorry, no chance in hell you made 65whp on 91oct with no other mods with just a Dinan tune.

What does Dinan stage 1 or whatever make, 20whp? That's a huge difference.
No need to get smart but actually if you look at Dinan data and dynos the average user makes anywhere from 40-60 whp gain on Stage 1.

Also, if you go to the GIAC website they advertise the Stage 1 flash as gaining anywhere from 40-80 whp
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      08-05-2009, 07:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhcoug2011 View Post
No need to get smart but actually if you look at Dinan data and dynos the average user makes anywhere from 40-60 whp gain on Stage 1.

Also, if you go to the GIAC website they advertise the Stage 1 flash as gaining anywhere from 40-80 whp
Admittedly I was a bit harsh, but I believe realistic.

Please show me a single independent dyno of a Dinan stage 1 anywhere near those claims.
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      08-05-2009, 07:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
Admittedly I was a bit harsh, but I believe realistic.

Please show me a single independent dyno of a Dinan stage 1 anywhere near those claims.
No problem:

1) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105689 (OP gained +51 whp)

2) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133625 (OP gained +52 whp)

That was with 2 minutes of search....I can find plenty more if you are interested
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      08-05-2009, 07:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vAnt826 View Post
Map switching is just that, map switching. You cannot remove the map for dealer visits unless you reflash (must be done by a GIAC dealer).
I was just at the dealer yesterday in Taiwan with my GIAC flash M3. I was putting on the BMW steering wheel & E-brake. they could not see my file upgrade. And they did a full run of my ECU after the installation. But it eased my GIAC flash but I am getting it re-flashed today . NO sweat no warranty issue.
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      08-05-2009, 08:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth335 View Post
I have spoken to some of the GIAC dealers who have been testing their cars on the flash for the last few months, and they said that it beats all piggybacks in terms of linear power and smoothness, as well as overall efficiency. They say that the car just feels faster as compared to any JB or other piggy backs.

A few downsides that I have seen:

1) You cannot "switch maps" or put it back to stock or "valet" mode on the fly with just the flash, but you can buy an extra “cable kit” to turn off the settings which is over $100.

2) The power dyno numbers that are claimed are a bit lower, quoted to be about +65 HP rwhp on 91 pump gas, and no map switching for 100 race gas = the 80+ rwhp claimed from JB.

3) You cannot take out the flash and sell it if you want to sell the car, trade it in, or just be done with the tune. (kind of important to me to have a resell value)

4) Even though our ECU "adjusts" to external environmental settings, according to some dealers, the Stage 1 GIAC Flash works well with intakes and exhaust systems, but no FMIC's or DP's as of yet, which will be supported in their Stage 3 flash several months down the road.

On the plus side:

From what the dealers have said, the GIAC is just a better tune overall for the car then a piggyback because of the code reflash. The price is good, higher then the JB3 PnP, but cheaper than the PROceed.

I am in no way experienced in N54 tuning; I just have been making some calls and gathering info on the GIAC since I heard about it. It sounds like a great tune, but I kind of like being able to turn off the tune if my GF drives the car or if I drop it off somewhere. I am still up in the air, and if used JB3 PnP chips are going for $400 shipped, I am leaning towards that route. For the price of the GIAC flash, you can get a JB3 and that sick OEM looking Vent Gauge.
I don't think there is anything of a need of having a new file for a FMIC or DP just because your ECU sensors which are like everywhere on your car will pick it up then your ECU will go into a learning curve.
A new file for each new MOD. is for cars back in the day.
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      08-05-2009, 11:58 PM   #22
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I'm very interested in this tune...however....until we get some input from people OTHER THAN VENDORS...I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon of the new great GIAC tune. I'm not a die hard JB or PROceed guy. I want a hassle free tune that not only puts good numbers on the DYNO but puts fast cars on the street/track.

It will be nice to see the comparisons between GIAC flashed stage 1 vs. jb3 and PROcede only. To really see how this tune holds up against two very reputable tunes.
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