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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BMW Performance Power Kit now available for N54 engines (part #'s, price and diagram)



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      08-19-2009, 11:41 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
Thats not accurate for the N54. While there is no oil to water heat exchanger , it does use both oil and water to cool the turbos. Take note of the Coolant lines. Given a choice, I would definitely prefer using water as the primary heat exchanger rather than oil. Oils primary purpose is to lubricate and not to cool. Water's only function in the design is to cool. One particular distinction is the ability for the platform to self regulate the transfer rate via the water pump + fan.
I agree with you that the radiator (= water) also cools the turbos, which is by the way also one of the reasons why the water pump will continue to run for some time after you have switched off the engine. Still, in any car and in particular FI cars the oil also has a coolant effect (although it may not be its primary purpose), which is why many N54 have the factory oil cooler and some (Alpina, Dinan) offer additional oil coolers from the start for this engine.

What I wanted to say is that from what I have read and experienced, the main problem of the N54 is not high water temps but high oil temps, which are most easily solved by upping the oil cooling system, i.e. installing an additional oil cooler. Now, I assume you could argue that if you increase the efficiency of the water cooling system, you may also solve the oil temperature issues, which could be true (but still needs to be verified). It's just that it may be easier (and less expensive) to go with the tried oil coolers (which I have seen proven on many occasions - not only the AR design but also the VK Motorwerks for example).

The optimal solution (which I will probably go for on the long run) would consist in combining both systems, IMO.

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      08-19-2009, 11:59 AM   #90
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What is clear from this kit is a recongition by BMW that total engine cooling is insufficient. The fan, relay and supplemental radiator indicate to me that BMW views engine coolant to be the bigger concern (this also seems to be borne out by some race teams running N54's). A larger or supplemental oil cooler may help (and is necessary given the high oil temps we see on the track), but it may not address a larger cooling deficiency. The kit's and original engine design also indicates that they never intended oil to be a primary coolant, otherwise they would have addressed that in some way (i.e. bigger oil cooler standard on all cars). However, better cooling for the engine will have an incrimental benefit to oil temps (what that is, only experience will tell).

As for the argument on oil vs. water cooling, it is largely moot with this motor since the decision to rely primarily on water cooling has already been made and trying to alter that bias would be largely futile.

And as for the Porsche comment, they changed to water cooling because they moved to multi-valve heads (944, 928, 996) which could not be effectively air cooled. Porsches still use oil as an effective means of keeping certain portions of the engine cool (lower-end bearings in particular).
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      08-19-2009, 12:06 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
I agree with you that the radiator (= water) also cools the turbos, which is by the way also one of the reasons why the water pump will continue to run for some time after you have switched off the engine. Still, in any car and in particular FI cars the oil also has a coolant effect (although it may not be its primary purpose), which is why many N54 have the factory oil cooler and some (Alpina, Dinan) offer additional oil coolers from the start for this engine.

What I wanted to say is that from what I have read and experienced, the main problem of the N54 is not high water temps but high oil temps, which are most easily solved by upping the oil cooling system, i.e. installing an additional oil cooler. Now, I assume you could argue that if you increase the efficiency of the water cooling system, you may also solve the oil temperature issues, which could be true (but still needs to be verified). It's just that it may be easier (and less expensive) to go with the tried oil coolers (which I have seen proven on many occasions - not only the AR design but also the VK Motorwerks for example).

The optimal solution (which I will probably go for on the long run) would consist in combining both systems, IMO.

Alpina_B3_Lux

It's funny you should comment on the likelihood of running both oil coolers (one on either side). I have been looking at the possibility of doing exactly this, but also changing the VK Motorwerks cooler (which is a Durale core) over to a Setrab unit which is rated higher in terms of cooling and capacity. I have some Setrab cores now on their way to the UK and I will be looking at this in depth when I get back.

I'm still out here at the 'Ring - today's ambient temperature hit 34C, and track temperature was well into the 40sC. Running the car hard for a few consecutive laps brought the oil temp to just over 140C - too high for my liking. I'm thinking that a two-core oil cooler system, coupled with the higher-energy radiator fan from BMW, will do the trick.

Incidentally, I have a slight issue with one of the main catalytic converters - it's starting to disintegrate, due to the extreme temperatures and performance I'm extracting from the car! So have just had delivered to Koblenz a set of 100 cell endurance race cats by HJS, and a Bastuck rear system (two tailpipes, not quads). Consequently, I'm staying out here for an extra day or two to get some laps in with the new system!!!
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      08-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #92
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Stock cooling system is inadequate. High coolant temps begin to reduce power at 118C and if the temps still increase, the car limps. Additional or upgraded radiator is needed. This in turn helps in oil temps, but N54 driven hard still needs a big Setrab to keep oil alive a lot longer. So N54 driven very hard needs both water and oil cooler upgrades.
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      08-19-2009, 12:44 PM   #93
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Wow!!!
e92fan, please keep us posted on your experiences. Give me a lift see my thump stuck out...there on the corner at the ring...

I assume you are referring to the secondary cats disintegrating? Since your primary cats have been removed before!??

Like B3 Lux I am also considering a dual oil cooler setup with a larger radiator fan. With the kind of power and boost we are extracting from our cars we have to keep temps down (whether water or oil) for the sake of engine efficiency and engine longevity.
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      08-19-2009, 04:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
It's funny you should comment on the likelihood of running both oil coolers (one on either side). I have been looking at the possibility of doing exactly this, but also changing the VK Motorwerks cooler (which is a Durale core) over to a Setrab unit which is rated higher in terms of cooling and capacity. I have some Setrab cores now on their way to the UK and I will be looking at this in depth when I get back.
Well, actually mine are not on either side - the stock one is on the passenger side, of course, but the additional ar design sits in front of the radiator and not on the other side (as was their first design for the E92, but which had fitment issues with the E90). But I believe that a dual system is actually better when pushing the car hard at high temps like we did last week-end.

Quote:
I'm still out here at the 'Ring - today's ambient temperature hit 34C, and track temperature was well into the 40sC. Running the car hard for a few consecutive laps brought the oil temp to just over 140C - too high for my liking. I'm thinking that a two-core oil cooler system, coupled with the higher-energy radiator fan from BMW, will do the trick.
First of all - I envy you! I'd like to be there as well... - Let's hope we'll be able to buy the fan separately, then...! But I think that one way or the other we'll be able to source that piece, after all. What about the additional radiator - are you considering that as well? Incidentally, I hope that VK Motorwerks will come out with their own improved radiator...

Quote:
Incidentally, I have a slight issue with one of the main catalytic converters - it's starting to disintegrate, due to the extreme temperatures and performance I'm extracting from the car! So have just had delivered to Koblenz a set of 100 cell endurance race cats by HJS, and a Bastuck rear system (two tailpipes, not quads). Consequently, I'm staying out here for an extra day or two to get some laps in with the new system!!!
I wonder who gave you the idea with the Bastuck system... Looking forward to hearing that!

As to the main cats, couldn't this also be due to the removal of the primary ones? That was one of the reasons I went with the catted version of the dps, but I'm not sure.

As to the secondary cats, I've also considered that and believe that you're talking about this company, aren't you? I did not know they also had a product for the N54 available, as on their website they didn't mention that (but I didn't call them yet). I'd be curious about your results as well, as it's a step I've been considering, too (although not as a priority).

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      08-19-2009, 05:53 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Well, actually mine are not on either side - the stock one is on the passenger side, of course, but the additional ar design sits in front of the radiator and not on the other side (as was their first design for the E92, but which had fitment issues with the E90). But I believe that a dual system is actually better when pushing the car hard at high temps like we did last week-end.

First of all - I envy you! I'd like to be there as well... - Let's hope we'll be able to buy the fan separately, then...! But I think that one way or the other we'll be able to source that piece, after all. What about the additional radiator - are you considering that as well? Incidentally, I hope that VK Motorwerks will come out with their own improved radiator...

I wonder who gave you the idea with the Bastuck system... Looking forward to hearing that!

As to the main cats, couldn't this also be due to the removal of the primary ones? That was one of the reasons I went with the catted version of the dps, but I'm not sure.

As to the secondary cats, I've also considered that and believe that you're talking about this company, aren't you? I did not know they also had a product for the N54 available, as on their website they didn't mention that (but I didn't call them yet). I'd be curious about your results as well, as it's a step I've been considering, too (although not as a priority).

Alpina_B3_Lux


The AR Design additional oil cooler - you say it sits in front of the radiator. Does it obstruct airflow to the radiator, or more importantly to the intercooler below it? Does it take the air through the kidney grilles?

I didn't realise it was located there - always thought it was still in the LHS wheel well. If that area is still free, then yes I'll install the additional BMW water radiator there, just to maximise the cooling potential. I'm sure I'll have to do a little fabricating for the ducting as I have a normal SE front bumper and not the MSport.

The secondary cats are from HJS as you suspected - they don't do a specific one for the N54, however they judge their cats by cubic volume and efficiency, and there is a set of cats that fits perfectly, and increases catalyst efficiency by a considerable amount. Not cheap though, at 700 Euros, EACH...!!! Note that these are proper endurance race cats, not sport cats or sport replacements... there's a big difference in quality between the different ranges and brands available...

And yes, thank you for the Bastuck experience - no time like the present to get involved!!

Incidentally, I'm thinking of coming back to the 'Ring in October - 9th - 11/12th... book it in your diary and come along!! The car will be ready by then
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      08-20-2009, 03:19 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The AR Design additional oil cooler - you say it sits in front of the radiator. Does it obstruct airflow to the radiator, or more importantly to the intercooler below it? Does it take the air through the kidney grilles?
It sits directly in front of the radiator, so it might slightly obstruct the airflow - but IMO it's not significant enough to worry about. No obstruction to the intercooler at all. You can see some more or less good photos of this new design here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265664

Quote:
I didn't realise it was located there - always thought it was still in the LHS wheel well. If that area is still free, then yes I'll install the additional BMW water radiator there, just to maximise the cooling potential. I'm sure I'll have to do a little fabricating for the ducting as I have a normal SE front bumper and not the MSport.
So if I understand you correctly you'll install the additional (water) radiator in the passenger wheel well? Would be cool if that works (no pun intended...).

Quote:
The secondary cats are from HJS as you suspected - they don't do a specific one for the N54, however they judge their cats by cubic volume and efficiency, and there is a set of cats that fits perfectly, and increases catalyst efficiency by a considerable amount. Not cheap though, at 700 Euros, EACH...!!! Note that these are proper endurance race cats, not sport cats or sport replacements... there's a big difference in quality between the different ranges and brands available...
Wow, I didn't think they were so expensive. I would have to add labour to that as well, as I couldn't install them myself. As far as emission efficiency is concerned, I suppose they're sufficient to pass German emission tests? Otherwise that would not be an option for me...

Quote:
And yes, thank you for the Bastuck experience - no time like the present to get involved!!

Incidentally, I'm thinking of coming back to the 'Ring in October - 9th - 11/12th... book it in your diary and come along!! The car will be ready by then
I'd love to! But unfortunately that week-end is already booked, so I cannot come - except maybe on Sunday afternoon. But you are aware that you can only drive one hour on Saturday and not at all on Friday, if I read the Ring's website correctly?

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      08-20-2009, 04:01 AM   #97
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@E92Fan: You are still there this weekend? I will drive up again tomorrow
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      08-20-2009, 04:22 AM   #98
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:-( kit still not available in Sweden
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      08-20-2009, 05:53 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
It sits directly in front of the radiator, so it might slightly obstruct the airflow - but IMO it's not significant enough to worry about. No obstruction to the intercooler at all. You can see some more or less good photos of this new design here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265664

So if I understand you correctly you'll install the additional (water) radiator in the passenger wheel well? Would be cool if that works (no pun intended...).

Wow, I didn't think they were so expensive. I would have to add labour to that as well, as I couldn't install them myself. As far as emission efficiency is concerned, I suppose they're sufficient to pass German emission tests? Otherwise that would not be an option for me...

I'd love to! But unfortunately that week-end is already booked, so I cannot come - except maybe on Sunday afternoon. But you are aware that you can only drive one hour on Saturday and not at all on Friday, if I read the Ring's website correctly?

Alpina_B3_Lux

The cats are fully TUV approved and pass existing German emissions laws. They are expensive, but then that's because they are proper race cats and not cheap sports versions. Cat costs can vary hugely, from 200 Euros each up to 700 Euros for these ones. But the durability of these is amazing, and Team Schirmer have yet to replace a destroyed cat in any of their VLN race cars or road cars...

And yes, you're right the 'Ring isn't open much that weekend... looks like it'll just be the Sunday for me then!!
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      08-20-2009, 10:24 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
I didn't realise it was located there - always thought it was still in the LHS wheel well. If that area is still free, then yes I'll install the additional BMW water radiator there, just to maximise the cooling potential. I'm sure I'll have to do a little fabricating for the ducting as I have a normal SE front bumper and not the MSport.
We have have had a few guys testing the ar design oil cooler at the track locally (road course) and it does a fantastic job. There is a mini group buy on these now so PM if you are interested.

The ar cooler allows you to keep your stock or upgraded oil cooler so you would be running two.

Mike
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      08-20-2009, 01:29 PM   #101
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Hi,

You're not going to believe what is the cost of the air channel set (at least in my area): $250 for 3 pieces of plastic !!! So add ~$200 to the price of the kit in US !

On the M-Sport sedan however (I believe the coupe can be done like this too), the air channels can be omitted because some radiator plate is included in the Power Kit (and not in the air channel kit) and instead of installing the air channels you just drill some holes into the brakes airduct channel in order for part of the air to escape to the right and enter the water radiator.

But I ordered the proper channels...
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      08-20-2009, 01:44 PM   #102
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cstavaru: Just so you know i placed my order for the power kit today...will keep you posted but if yours arrive first, please post some pics BEFORE you install so that the community can see what this mystery is about.

I think B3 Lux and e92fan are just boasting and making us jealous...
i should rather invest in a private jet to close the gap to Germany and the Ring instead of the bmw power kit
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      08-20-2009, 06:49 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 645Nm View Post
cstavaru: Just so you know i placed my order for the power kit today...will keep you posted but if yours arrive first, please post some pics BEFORE you install so that the community can see what this mystery is about.

I think B3 Lux and e92fan are just boasting and making us jealous...
i should rather invest in a private jet to close the gap to Germany and the Ring instead of the bmw power kit
Sorry for the

Just to encourage you to invest in that private jet...


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      08-20-2009, 07:32 PM   #104
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Man I miss that place! From the look of the first pic, it looks like you were giving your car hell! Lol!
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      08-20-2009, 07:46 PM   #105
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Quote:
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Man I miss that place! From the look of the first pic, it looks like you were giving your car hell! Lol!
I'm consistently lapping at 8:10, so yes I'm giving the car some grief!! And I've done over 150 laps of the 'Ring in just this particular car...!
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      08-20-2009, 08:03 PM   #106
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Wow! I have gotten in 10 laps on my E90
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      08-21-2009, 02:19 AM   #107
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Brilliant pictures!!!! Thanks man...my new screen saver.

WOW!!!!!
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      08-21-2009, 04:37 PM   #108
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Damn! look at that elevation change. Love it. I wonder how it compares to LS-Corkscrew

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      08-22-2009, 08:10 AM   #109
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Just called the dealer and the kit isn't available yet.
The parts rep knew of the kit.He has a 335 and may go with it.He didn't know when it will be available.
BTW,I mentioned that I've read that BWM will introduce new service software to detecting Tunes and he said yes,he's heard that too.
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      08-22-2009, 10:41 AM   #110
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Wow, a performance mod I would actually consider. Cannot wait until further US specs are available.

Had the factory performance option on a previous car that was night and day different with a stock model. Based upon the European spec, this sounds like it would be fairly similar. I want more useable power approaching the redline, not the flat-spot that my E93 has now.
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