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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dyno Runs--DCI vs OEM air box (Hood Closed)



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      08-08-2009, 07:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
good tests, well done.

I would like to see this against a CAI too just to round out the tests.
I think Former boosted IS did this test already recently... It would seem that if a true CAI had the flow rate of the DCI or similar, with lower IAT, or the same as, stock, that it would be better than the stock box or the DCI.
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      08-08-2009, 07:55 AM   #24
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nice write up. thanks once again for the useful info Mr. 5. Please do think of more things to test for! It always seems interesting
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      08-08-2009, 08:07 AM   #25
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Mr 5: what was the ambient temperature in the room?
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      08-08-2009, 09:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
Mr 5: what was the ambient temperature in the room?
The ambient air temp is the pink line in the graph of the IATs.
Look at both graphs..It's actually higher with the OEM box rather than the DCI setup yet the IATs went up drasticaly.
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      08-08-2009, 09:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
The ambient air temp is the pink line in the graph of the IATs.
Look at both graphs..It's actually higher with the OEM box rather than the DCI setup yet the IATs went up drasticaly.
turbos generate alot of heat in an engine bay.
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      08-08-2009, 10:02 AM   #28
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So, with DCI HP increases on initial runs but drops off after what we presume is heat soak .
And Terry did a similar study and showed that your heat soaking is likely the cause of hp decrease.
He also showed by using the ignition timing that the turbos worked harder with stock set up.
so. Hp = increase initially dci
Hp = Decrease with heat soak dci
Turbo= Work harder with stock set up

So my point that is more of a ? Why is it that stock setup maintains a more steady hp graph..
Is it the computer is adjusting the timing to compensate better for the extra work the turbos are doing, because if not the hp would slip just like the DCI.
So Heat soak is the biggest problem......and the can't be fixed with computer so this lends credit to a closed box intake with better flow than stock for two reasons less strain on turbos than stock but not as less as dci but the computer can compensate and maybe not as much hp as dci but more reliable and more than stock.
Wow...ok solve the riddle. tks for listening
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      08-08-2009, 10:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roozie2001 View Post
So im good right now cuz with JB3 map 7 and no other mods IATs matter alot. So i cant afford the higher IATs for a few extra HP. Also i have a lead foot and i drive very "aggressive" i think if i do alot of driving around say on a Saturday night i'd end up losing power rather than gaining.

I'd love to see the same comparison with the STETT also i'd love to see you run a Higher map on the JB3 and see the results under higher boost. Say a map6 or 7

all in all great job. i appreciate the tests.
+1 I would like to see what it looks like on a higher map.
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      08-08-2009, 10:13 AM   #30
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My theory is this-
Daily driving, etc - street, twisty road, and so on, espically in the summer, you are better with the stock box or CAI.

For Strip... One run every 30 mins to an hour, with proper cooling, DCI is better as these are "glory runs". Espically if you are'nt bracket racing. If you are bracket racing, the stock box is more consistent, which leaves you closer to your dail in.
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      08-08-2009, 10:53 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Like I said above, I used map 3 because that is the daily driving map.
What? You want us to read the post??

While I agree with you about the daily map selection, reading posts here suggests you and I are in the minority.
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      08-08-2009, 11:05 AM   #32
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Great test, I too wonder about longer-term testing (does the decreased duty cycle of the turbo's eventually make the DCI's better) and also with increased boost (like higher than map 3) would the DCI's be stronger to the point where they never drop below the stock air box. Even in this test the TQ numbers stayed 4-5 higher even with the heat soak condition and the DCI's. Which also makes me wonder with more airflow (my dyno is 4th gear and it goes about 140mph) if the engine bay would be better managed and less hot air would be getting sucked into the DCI's. One of my issues with a CAI is that you are extending a long pipe to the filter and it won't be as unrestricted overall as the DCI's (theoretically )

Again, thx Mr. 5 for the tests
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      08-08-2009, 11:13 AM   #33
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the fix

I have the answer.....Rip out one for stage 1 and two for stage2 or your airconditioner ducts and shove them into the cai..........10hp for each turn of the fan...dial........vaaala.....on max AC 50hp increase.
Hmmmm seriously that might work who wants to canabalize there car first.
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      08-08-2009, 11:16 AM   #34
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glory run

Heck if its a Glory run save the money and rip out the intake completely......!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borsig View Post
My theory is this-
Daily driving, etc - street, twisty road, and so on, espically in the summer, you are better with the stock box or CAI.

For Strip... One run every 30 mins to an hour, with proper cooling, DCI is better as these are "glory runs". Espically if you are'nt bracket racing. If you are bracket racing, the stock box is more consistent, which leaves you closer to your dail in.
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      08-08-2009, 11:41 AM   #35
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You're the man Mr. 5! Awesome post and great research.
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      08-08-2009, 02:12 PM   #36
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Thanks and much appreciation for doing the test.

Without debating the issue again i did a simmillar test two weeks ago but with the hood open - others have done this also - so nothing new. my final decision: out went the dual cones and back with stock box & K&N filter - the dyno confirmed my butt experience on the street - and the power gains and consistency with the stock box & drop in filter was NOT insignificant.
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      08-08-2009, 03:10 PM   #37
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Nice. I was also under the misconception that dci is better EVERYTIME...Its great that someone took out the time to actually test everything to find out the real difference
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      08-08-2009, 03:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
What? You want us to read the post??

While I agree with you about the daily map selection, reading posts here suggests you and I are in the minority.
I wouldn't limit the minority to just you two ..........
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      08-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #39
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Looks like nice testing and matches well with BMS' testing. Funny you guys both did it on the same day! You should have met up or something. Which JB3 software are you on?

Anyway looking at your IAT data, we're talking about something like 8 degree difference between the peak with the DCI and peak with the stock airbox? Doesn't seem like much of a difference at all considering the hood was closed and there wasn't as much airflow as you'd get on the street. If you look at BMS' testing they measured the solenoid duty cycle and found the dual cone setup was actually better for the turbos. They also picked up as much as 25rw in parts on pump gas, much more on methanol, compared to the stock airbox.

Mike
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      08-08-2009, 05:27 PM   #40
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The sound alone is totally worth having the DCI installed
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      08-08-2009, 07:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
What? You want us to read the post??

While I agree with you about the daily map selection, reading posts here suggests you and I are in the minority.
Haha. I know what you mean.
Just in case, I was referring to this post here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I'll agree that higher boost would possibly make better results but why would I do that if I'm interested in the results with daily driving?
I've already admitted that the cones would be better at the strip.
I'm personally interested in consistency with daily driving.
Another thing...I could have tested a bunch of different scenarios but I didn't have that much time. I think I got what I wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Looks like nice testing and matches well with BMS' testing. Funny you guys both did it on the same day! You should have met up or something. Which JB3 software are you on?

Anyway looking at your IAT data, we're talking about something like 8 degree difference between the peak with the DCI and peak with the stock airbox? Doesn't seem like much of a difference at all considering the hood was closed and there wasn't as much airflow as you'd get on the street. If you look at BMS' testing they measured the solenoid duty cycle and found the dual cone setup was actually better for the turbos. They also picked up as much as 25rw in parts on pump gas, much more on methanol, compared to the stock airbox.

Mike
I know huh? Terry actually emailed me and told me the same day.
I'm sure that once meth is involved, this test gets thrown out the window, but there are a bunch of people that don't have the meth installed that are running around town with dual cones.

Another thing that I've thought about is the boost levels with the upcoming flashes. It seems like the they are getting as much power with lower amounts of boost so in my opinion, it would be much better to stick with the OEM box with their software. Of course, as I mentioned in the inital post, the dual cones should be used if going for the best 1/4 mile run (that is-if the car is cooled down).
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      08-09-2009, 10:52 AM   #42
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Quote:
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The sound alone is totally worth having the DCI installed
I totally understand. IMO, I dont' like the whooshing sound, but I could totally understand the sound of the intake in my M3.
I loved the growl!

EDIT**

I also changed the titles of the runs so it's easier to read the graphs.
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      08-12-2009, 12:36 PM   #43
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Wow, that's very valuable info. Thanks for the test! I'm currently running a K&N drop-in and was thinking of upgrading to the DCI for better performance at the track and on the street, but your tests show I should stick w/ the stock box, which is what I prefer visually (I prefer the stealth unmodded look).
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      08-12-2009, 12:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Wow, that's very valuable info. Thanks for the test! I'm currently running a K&N drop-in and was thinking of upgrading to the DCI for better performance at the track and on the street, but your tests show I should stick w/ the stock box, which is what I prefer visually (I prefer the stealth unmodded look).
I agree. There's another test floating around here that doesn't show heat soak of the DCI, but after further investigation, I found that the hood wasn't completely closed during that test.
The hood in my test was completely closed during the runs and was open between runs.

I think we're going to make a couple more runs. This time, no cool down time to prove/disprove heat soak.
I'll make sure that both setups are started at the same exact IATs and that the oil temps are the same.
I'll also do runs on the street to show real world IATs.
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