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      04-05-2009, 09:15 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Death of BMW ///M

Fellow Enthusiasts,

We are now at the end of an era of a BMW ///M that we once loved. BMW and ///M, specifically has gone astray and are lost. Our once cherished sporty coupes, sedans and GTs with the characteristic powerful normally aspirated engines with killer performance high in the RPM band is lost.

Now we have 5300 pound trucks with asmatic redline performance is the new BMW and ///M. No 5300 pound truck is sporty and weight cannot be overcompensated by power but despite this known rule of performance, BMW has chosen to use the great ///M engineers on stupid trucks.

BMW and ///M have chose the path of Audi and AMG. Powerful and Heavy. Powerful good but Heavy necessarily means poor handling.

Look at the torque curve of the new engine. Flat torque curve great. But the stupid thing has a 6800 rpm redline and has an asmtha attack at 5700 rpm. Everything that we loved about BMW ///M engines is lost.

Don't believe the marketing hype. Weighs too much to handle well, fuel economy is horrible and the performance is mediocre. It satisfies no one.

I don't hold a lot of hope for the F10 M5 or the F12 M6. My current M6 is probably the last BMW that I will buy for awhile. If the 5 series PAV didn't reinforce that BMW has lost its way, the X5M and X6M demonstrates that BMW has completely lost its way in my opinion.

BMW has chosen to chase new markets and is going to forget its faithful.

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      04-05-2009, 09:16 PM   #2
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      04-05-2009, 09:33 PM   #3
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      04-05-2009, 09:49 PM   #4
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      04-05-2009, 09:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Gordon Murray View Post
Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      04-05-2009, 09:53 PM   #6
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The E39 M5 redlined at 7k was that not an M?
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      04-05-2009, 09:59 PM   #7
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I dont understand why people choose to be ignorant and say these cars suck when no one even knows how they really drive. I agree with the fact that they might be chasing a new market but you can call something unsuccessful simply because its unlikely to succeed. Wait till these cars are put to a real test then state your opinion, and even then its just your opinion. If the numbers show that people like these cars and sold a lot of them, then they succeeded.
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      04-05-2009, 10:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasano18 View Post
I dont understand why people choose to be ignorant and say these cars suck when no one even knows how they really drive. I agree with the fact that they might be chasing a new market but you can call something unsuccessful simply because its unlikely to succeed. Wait till these cars are put to a real test then state your opinion, and even then its just your opinion. If the numbers show that people like these cars and sold a lot of them, then they succeeded.

Hey genious, 5300 pounds, high center of gravity, sucky redline. Enuff said.

I don't care if they sell millions. They are reallocating resources away from sedans, coupes and GTs.

The reason I am not happy is because BMW is arrogant. I have been a customer since the E36 M3 and they are taking my business for granted. They are on this stupid path thinking that their marketing is going to make my eyes glaze over in stupidity.

They are ignoring their loyal customer base, this is the bet they are making by scrimping on development of the cars that we love to chase stupid heavy trucks that don't perform well.

I am pissed at their corporate culture more than the X5M / X6M. On these products, they are going to handle like crap because of their weight. period.
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      04-05-2009, 10:11 PM   #9
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It was designed to compete against the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S not a GT3 so who cares. Don't like it don't buy it simple. Bottom line is someone will BMW has plenty of customers that will buy it I'm sure they won't miss you.
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      04-05-2009, 10:17 PM   #10
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After thinking about it for a bit, this does dilute ///M a bit; but for the crazy folks that want a $100,000 do everything SUV, the X5/X6 ///M will fit the bill nicely.

Last edited by vgame64; 04-06-2009 at 05:44 PM.
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      04-05-2009, 10:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
It was designed to compete against the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S not a GT3 so who cares. Don't like it don't buy it simple. Bottom line is someone will BMW has plenty of customers that will buy it I'm sure they won't miss you.

You don't appreciate the seismic shift in BMW's corporate culture and priorities.

If you think resources are unlimited for companies even like BMW you are dreaming.

BMW has one of the highest R&D expenditures and we love them for it and yet they remain profitable, a fine balance. Now they are cutting R&D by rationalizing the number of models and individual components like engines.

BMW's focus, as a smart person can infer by the decisions they make, is to make hideously big trucks with a big motor, AMG / Audi model. They gave up on the CSLs and even a new Z4M. Can you honest look at the 5 series PAV and get excited??

The last thing you want to do is piss off the customer base, particularly in economically challenging times.

I hope your next response is better than "don't buy it", don't come back with product based arguments....come back and argue company strategy...... The company is dying from within.
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      04-05-2009, 10:24 PM   #12
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Just remember what Cayenne did for Porsche. I personally don't think it is bad for BMW to diversify, as long as they keep making the excellent sports sedan/coupe which they had been making for the last few decades.
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      04-05-2009, 10:31 PM   #13
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For some reason when I was reading this I imagined your words somming from a preachers mouth at sermen time. Guess your just preaching to the chior at this time tho.

And while your at it...add the fact the next gen ///M3 will have a turbo six(V or I at this point is undecided), the 1 series ///M will have a turboed I-4 and say again that the X6///M is retarded. Just because ///M division is breaking new ground, because they have to expand their markets and experiment with new tech in order to remain a viable company not because they necessarily want to, doent mean that the new //M cars of the next 10 years will be crap.
The fact of the matter is BMW has been pushed into a corner by CAFE standards here and they are too stupid to bring over the 123d to the states, which gets better gas milage than a Prius. They have decided that 2 fewer cylinders, whith 2 extra turbos is the way to go for fuel economy, shile still maintaining performance. Ford is doing with the Mustang. Ecobost V6 instead of an NA V8.
Don't you think that Ford lovers have the same thing going on on their forums that you are saying right here? They do and I know because i'm one of them. but the fact of the matter the current situation dictacts that its a turbo charge or die automotive climate.

And stop bitching. BMW makes some of the best turbo charged engines in the world. Suck it up and live with it. It doesnt mean that it won't be an ///M car. It will mean that it has a slightly lower redline and better low end performance.

Im sorry about the rant...but common. All of you "traditional" BMW fans need to realize that times change. Stop ranting about an ///M SUV. The fact of the matter is that there is a market for these cars. I see Porsche Cayennes all of the time. People will buy them and they will help ensure the survival of BMW. Be glad BMW isnt stuck to a crappy and criticised design language like it was in the 90s.
The same car in three different sizes ring a bell?

Be glad it can adapt itself to the times and remain viable.

Im done now...so I guess its time for you guys to tell me im wrong.
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      04-05-2009, 10:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineCloud9 View Post
Just remember what Cayenne did for Porsche. I personally don't think it is bad for BMW to diversify, as long as they keep making the excellent sports sedan/coupe which they had been making for the last few decades.

Alpine, I think you are touching the root of the issue.....
  • Porsche got lucky with market timing. The Cayenne came in a boom, the X5M / X6M is coming is the worst time in the auto industry
  • Porsche didn't reinvest their profits from the Cayenne in their cars. Is the 997 that much better than the 996 or is the 998 going to be that much better than the 997? Are they going to continue to develop flat 6's?
The systemic problem with BMW is they are actively seeking to be MORE profitable. They made this decision well before the economy tanked. One of the reasons BMW is so successful was their R&D spend as a % of revenue. As anyone in finance will tell you, cutting jobs will only net a very small savings from R&D, the big R&D cuts come from projects.

When they killed the Z4M, the CSLs and even the CS, to make trucks, this was their corporate strategy in action. Cutting sedans, coupes and GTs in favor of trucks.

Given the current economy and the long road to recovery, BMW is going to HAVE to cut even more projects. What if they cut more from engine development? What if they don't do a new engine for every generation of M car? Let's just merge with AMG and get it over with....
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      04-05-2009, 10:57 PM   #15
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Poor handling...blah blah blah. BMW is a car company. They exist to make money. You have to evolve or die. Its as simple as that. Our opinions only matter when its aligned with their financial objectives. Do I wish they passed along an M135i, CSL, or Z4M before these things? HELL YES. Am I going to cry about it? No. Hopefully they learned their lesson since the global economy is in the tank.

A GT-R is nipping at 4,000lb and it will outhandle almost ANYTHING. I'm going to wait and see some solid numbers. Why cry now? BMW is known for doing great things with very heavy cars. Its been that way for a while. The E46 isnt exactly light. In fact, there hasnt been recent ''light'' //M cars. There is a market out there of older rich people that want something fast, loud, big, and obnoxious. They want it to handle well too. Maybe, just maybe they dont want it to be a Porsche, Audi, or Merc.

The Quandt family has controlled BMW for how many decades now? This would not have went under their radar. They sit on the boards. Their friends sit on the boards. They have the majority stake. This company remains tightly controlled. They would not do anything to destroy the brand of their company. BMW is and will remain a highly regarded company. The Cayenne did absolutely nothing to ruin the Porsche name.
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      04-06-2009, 05:34 AM   #16
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It's all about the money and these are quick hits to try and scrounge some cash on minimal investments. The big issue for all of the manufacturers will be the emissions and mileage standards. I'm afraid we may be at the end of the big NA engines in any car made in significant quantities. The automakers have alot less R&D money and need engines that power a wide range of vehicles. Say hello ot the US BMW 4-cylinder - again.
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      04-06-2009, 05:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vgame64 View Post
///M is for marketing just like AMG.

AWD, no racing history, ridiculous weight, being an SUV, AT, turbo'd engine not specifically built for the car, and nearly identical body/suspension to the X6/X5 make this car a failure in my eyes. If they called it the X6 XDrive6.0iS I would not have cared, but this ruins ///M in my book. The X6 M looks like an X6 with an OK body kit and ///M badges plastered everywhere.

Oh well, I'll go cry in my corner.
AWD has no racing history. Maybe not with BMW but there is numerous other supplier that have long histories with AWD and in fact on many occasions AWD has been banned in some forms of motorsport for giving an unfair advantage .

I will agree that the X5/6M is not true M cars but if the market is crying out for these cars then BMW as an manufacturer will jump at the opportunity of added sales, after all their are making cars to make a profit and not to listen to annoyed existing customers who think it's wrong.

As for the introduction of FI, well I reckon everyone with doubt in their mind should sample the RS6 because it's a model engine at producing power on demand and does not feel like a turbo unit at all, such well balanced is it's power and torque delivery. I imagine that BMW's M-Division have at least matched what Audi have done so see no problems what so ever with future M cars running FI engines.

If you can't except the changes then it's you that has the problem and are a dinosaur in a modern world.
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      04-06-2009, 09:19 AM   #18
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no racing history on the X5/X6, not the AWD option
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      04-06-2009, 09:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Don't believe the marketing hype. Weighs too much to handle well, fuel economy is horrible and the performance is mediocre. It satisfies no one.
lol....

please, when the X5/X6 M comes to the dealership closest to you, go out and test drive it. the fuel economy is very good for a truck with that much power and weight. and it satisfies a lot of people.

if u dont like what BMW has done then o well go to mercedes or audi or something. don't buy a BMW anymore.
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      04-06-2009, 09:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary_g View Post

if u dont like what BMW has done then o well go to mercedes or audi or something. don't buy a BMW anymore.
that would be brilliant, go to the companies that bmw is mimicking, the people complaining do NOT want overweight gigantic cars with badges that make them less overweight?
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      04-06-2009, 09:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Alpine, I think you are touching the root of the issue.....
  • Porsche got lucky with market timing. The Cayenne came in a boom, the X5M / X6M is coming is the worst time in the auto industry
  • Porsche didn't reinvest their profits from the Cayenne in their cars. Is the 997 that much better than the 996 or is the 998 going to be that much better than the 997? Are they going to continue to develop flat 6's?
The systemic problem with BMW is they are actively seeking to be MORE profitable. They made this decision well before the economy tanked. One of the reasons BMW is so successful was their R&D spend as a % of revenue. As anyone in finance will tell you, cutting jobs will only net a very small savings from R&D, the big R&D cuts come from projects.

When they killed the Z4M, the CSLs and even the CS, to make trucks, this was their corporate strategy in action. Cutting sedans, coupes and GTs in favor of trucks.

Given the current economy and the long road to recovery, BMW is going to HAVE to cut even more projects. What if they cut more from engine development? What if they don't do a new engine for every generation of M car? Let's just merge with AMG and get it over with....
ok, i totally forgot about that. you might be quite right then.
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      04-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by imported_mega View Post
that would be brilliant, go to the companies that bmw is mimicking, the people complaining do NOT want overweight gigantic cars with badges that make them less overweight?
go to honda?
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