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      08-12-2009, 11:01 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
It might be cheaper but not better ... or not even the same ... plus at the end you'll pay more for the service and stuff ...
It depends... honestly you get a lot more car with an Infiniti-Lexus-Acura over a similar priced Bmw.Like someone said even Mercedes is cheaper...Audi lowered their S4 by over 18K in Canada From 70K to 52K. The S5 will be lowered too when it gets the new 3.0T
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An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      08-12-2009, 11:11 AM   #46
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As I recall, Cadillac sells about 10x as many CTS’s as BMW sells the 3 series. The latest Roundel issue shows BMW in the middle of the JD Power initial quality survey (and Mini at last place) while Cadillac is #3 behind Lexus and Porsche. I wouldn’t scoff at the American’s abilities. The CTS doesn’t lose anything to BMW in driving dynamics (if you can live without the LSD in the BMW), the CTS has a nicer interior as mentioned. So, ultimately it comes down to taste (and prestige for some). I’m glad we have choices!

GM has gone through some major changes lately (duh!). The have really come out with some interesting designs in the last 5 years, and now they won’t be wasting their resources on legacy junk they couldn’t unload without bankruptcy. I look forward to seeing what they come up with!
Imagine M3 performance at a 328 price (and without runflat tires, no lack of LSD, no HPFP problems, a decent sounding exhaust…)
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      08-12-2009, 11:22 AM   #47
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An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn
What, BMW does this better??? Ever seen the diff on our cars? Its tiny. It has very small pinion gear, welded ring gear, no drain plug, and an oil capacity under 0.5 U.S. quarts.

Bad enough? BMW got rid of the strong tapered roller bearings and now has old fashioned ball bearings (remember those??) in a plastic cage. Yes, PLASTIC!

Kinda makes sense why the manual trans has the Clutch Delay Valve, why BMW doesn't put an LSD in our cars, and why they have started welding the gears...

I wonder about the long term ability of our differentials (how much torque do you put through that thing?) And lifetime oil? I don't think so!
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      08-12-2009, 11:23 AM   #48
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God i'm happy Europeans don't like Cadillacs except the classic ones. It's gonna look like an opel and somehow it always seems to end up as if they want to make another musclecar.
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      08-12-2009, 11:33 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by chaz58 View Post
What, BMW does this better??? Ever seen the diff on our cars? Its tiny. It has very small pinion gear, welded ring gear, no drain plug, and an oil capacity under 0.5 U.S. quarts.

Bad enough? BMW got rid of the strong tapered roller bearings and now has old fashioned ball bearings (remember those??) in a plastic cage. Yes, PLASTIC!

Kinda makes sense why the manual trans has the Clutch Delay Valve, why BMW doesn't put an LSD in our cars, and why they have started welding the gears...

I wonder about the long term ability of our differentials (how much torque do you put through that thing?) And lifetime oil? I don't think so!
That part is in my signature(it has been for a year).. One guy posted stuff about his CTS-V a year ago I found it funny...it was just signature material

I'm far from a Bmw fanboy trust me........Some people would call me basher...I own one and I'm just waiting for it to come out of the shop to get rid of it. As you can see I came from an A4....Had to try Bmw...I'm getting rid of mine with the lousy dealership service dept(All 3 that I visited we're 1st class @-Hole). So I'm not biased......I said in my post that you could get better car for less money...I.e G37-is350-c350-TL-SH over a 328I

I had to buy this 135 because it is a great value in Canada 50K+taxes gets you nowhere but with this car I got Brembo's, 300+ hp, easy upgrades, perfect size btw.....The car is good but Bmw service dept really sucks. I was treated like a king elsewhere..Trust me I'm not a whiner I can take a Cobalt-Aveo as a loaner and drive home.....Chevrolet dealerships treated me better then Bmw....This thread is not about my case btw I had to answer your post and tell you that I'm not biased.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      08-12-2009, 11:45 AM   #50
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The Corvette and the Cadillacs seem to be the main GM cars with current technology in them, but I think they are still lacking. It would be nice to actually have some American cars that can compete across the board with foreign cars, but I doubt it will happen. People will settle so they can say they bought American, but they will be settling.[/quote]

yeah, love that leaf spring pick up suspension in the corvette!
Gm, talk about dead man walking!

no way would i ever buy anything from Government Motors!
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      08-12-2009, 01:52 PM   #51
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That Government Motors you laugh at, supplied the transmission in the E46. An F'ing BMW with the price that goes with the name. I was a victim of two failures of that tranny, and had to fork over $6K for the last one. BMW is clearly slipping, and GM rising. Government Motors or not, they have mostly crap, but a few nice cars, I'd consider. Fact is though that BMW has been making poorer quality cars now. At some point, they will intersect with GM. Unless they wake up and do something. And It seems to me their cars been getting ugly of late, and some downright forgettable.

I am choing to trade my RAV4 in couple of years at most and maybe next year; Next I want a more premium cute ute. Do you think BMW is in the running? Noooo. I am going to be likely getting the beautiful Audi Q5, or one of the more premium Japanese models excluding the Lexus. (just another Toyota. I want a change). I'd consider the ML, but I suspect its due for a make over, so I don't want to get one just as its about to get plastic surgery and come out looking younger.
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      08-12-2009, 02:15 PM   #52
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E90 328s have GM trannys. It seems to be ok from the loaners I had...But my 325's ZF feels better.

Where do you guys think BMW stands when compared to Audi and Mercedes Benz in terms of quality?

MB used to stand for quality. Then they tried building cars cheaper in the late 90s and early 2000s and all their cars became nightmares. So many horror stories about reliability. But they've fixed that with their newer cars and are again building quality cars. Audi is also on the way up still. I wonder how BMW quality compares?
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      08-12-2009, 02:21 PM   #53
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I'll be shocked if you go for the Q5. If so, it won't be because of quality. Read JD Powers and consumer reports before purchasing any VW/Audi product. I did, and I though "it couldn't be that bad" Boy was I wrong (more than once).

You would be better off with an X1, X3 or even new SRX (since this is a Caddi thread)

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The RX is a soft-riding, girlie crossover that's ideal for moms beyond their soccer and Cub Scout years. Fortunately, Cadillac didn't take the bland design and mushy suspension bait. Rather, the SRX is armed with in-your-face styling, an optional 300-hp turbocharged V-6, and chassis tuning more consistent with European than Asian orthodoxy." -- Automobile Magazine
"I sampled both suspension setups in two AWD 3.0L models, and can report that like the second-generation CTS, the second-generation SRX advanced to the head of its class. The crossover is exceedingly quiet, especially in terms of wind and powertrain noise." -- Motor Trend
"The new SRX is good, really good. Lexus RX350-beating good. For a segment which has traditionally isolated the driver in a cocoon of leather and glass and over-damping, the SRX actually makes driving part of the equation." -- Jalopnik
"While totally changed from what currently constitutes a crossover in Cadillac's lineup, the SRX should be a competent player in the medium luxury ‘ute market, providing it can somehow mask its economy-class roots and offer a better value than the current model." -- Car and Driver
"...[i]t's the performance that made the biggest impression on me. When the SRX arrives later this year, the competition has its work cut out for it." -- Detroit News
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I am choing to trade my RAV4 in couple of years at most and maybe next year; Next I want a more premium cute ute. Do you think BMW is in the running? Noooo. I am going to be likely getting the beautiful Audi Q5, or one of the more premium Japanese models excluding the Lexus. (just another Toyota. I want a change). I'd consider the ML, but I suspect its due for a make over, so I don't want to get one just as its about to get plastic surgery and come out looking younger.
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      08-12-2009, 02:31 PM   #54
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The kool aid drinkers and ignorance are strong in this thread........
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      08-12-2009, 03:41 PM   #55
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If nothing else, the competition will be good. We really have nothing to lose. If the Caddy turns out to be a quality piece, it will force BMW from just sitting on their laurels and work harder to improve our cars.

If the Caddilac turns out to be substandard, we are driving BMW's.
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      08-12-2009, 04:35 PM   #56
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GM needs to ditch all the crap they have been putting out in the past 20 years. The CTS was a fugly car with all their angular styling.

If it is on a completely new platform, its built well, and performs in handling AND power similar to a BMW, then it might not be all that bad.

But chrome was so 2001, and Ill guarantee this car will be covered in it.





BTW, why an E46, and not E92 M3 if they were really looking for a performer?
Maybe because the e46 is a much better than the e92 performance wise. Strap the 335 engine into an e46 and watch what happens. An e46 m3 with 360hp smokes the new m3 at the ring ALL DAY.. everyday...
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      08-12-2009, 08:05 PM   #57
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It depends... honestly you get a lot more car with an Infiniti-Lexus-Acura over a similar priced Bmw.Like someone said even Mercedes is cheaper...Audi lowered their S4 by over 18K in Canada From 70K to 52K. The S5 will be lowered too when it gets the new 3.0T
If you can get a lot more car with Infiniti-Lexus-Acura then why did you buy BMW ?

Hunday also claims that their cars is better than BMW but if you can afford BMW I don't think you'll buy a Hunday ...
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      08-13-2009, 12:26 AM   #58
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[quote=doba_s;5689332]If you can get a lot more car with Infiniti-Lexus-Acura then why did you buy BMW ?

look under I will quote myself again
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An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      08-13-2009, 12:29 AM   #59
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It depends... honestly you get a lot more car with an Infiniti-Lexus-Acura over a similar priced Bmw.Like someone said even Mercedes is cheaper...Audi lowered their S4 by over 18K in Canada From 70K to 52K. The S5 will be lowered too when it gets the new 3.0T
I'm not a brand whore hell.... I like the Genesis it is RWD and the 4 cylinder has potential and on top of that it has brembo's so why not. I just said that the 135I was the best bang for the buck at the time(in 2007 when I ordered the car). Performance wise it was better than the G37. The G37 is about 10K cheaper than a comparable 335I. if there was no 135I in Bmw lineup I would have bought something else. I switch car often I might go with an STI-EVO next I have no clue I just want to drive different brands and different kind of cars life is too short to stick to one brand. Also I'm not born wealthy and have to live up to certain standards. I could drive a Mustang GT500 or KR and I would not be ashamed. I like Mazdaspeed3, SRT-4s a lot of cars I just wish that I had more money to buy them all. Personally I can't don't care about 323I-328I, 5 series etc...I just like the M-division and that's about it. I don't drive an M but my wannabe M does fine for now. A 230 hp, no LSD, not so nice interior, slow Bmw doesn't do anything for me. I would buy a GTI over one....I track my car so I have different expectations...I don't have a CD-changer, usb plug nor bluetooth in my car....everyone is different.

The reason why I like M-cars is that they rev to the moon(I come from Honda's and bikes). Beside that their are other cars that have better brakes better handling. Each cars have their pros and cons.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.

Last edited by mtla4; 08-13-2009 at 12:47 AM.
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      08-13-2009, 01:08 AM   #60
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BMW's tend to have a nice solidness to them. Which is why I like mine so much, even if its slow. For example, cruising 90+ for extended periods isn't even felt. I can sit back in the seat and relax and the car feels solid and secure. They are so stable that they let you relax. Now try taking out a camry and cruising 90+. Even the ones with the 270hp V6s do not feel like that. And they are much faster than my car. But on the highway, I feel like I have to be making more small changes in the steering and the car does not feel as solid or stable cruising down the highway even at 60-70. You can't just sit back and relax. Just something I noticed...

Actually I was talking to a Dr who just traded his e60 for a new A6. He told me that the audi doesn't feel as solid as his bimmer did and he misses his e60. So BMW's doing something right. Even if they charge a lot more for it.
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      08-13-2009, 01:38 AM   #61
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A 230 hp, no LSD, not so nice interior, slow Bmw doesn't do anything for me.
+1 If I am in the market for luxury, I'd consider an Audi for aesthetic design, and a Lexus/Acura for reliability, or hell the new Jaguar XF is a instant classic. BMW is not the #1 choice of luxury nor does it strive to be. The company has always pride itself for a blend of performance and luxury. A claim that seems like a stretch on the less powered models.

If I have 70k (ballpark) to spend on a car today I am not sure I would toss it on the M3 which is a jewel of a car but luxury doesn't mean much for me; I am speedaholic. My money would be on the cayman s with a x51 conversion later on or a GTR.
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      08-13-2009, 02:08 AM   #62
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+1 If I am in the market for luxury, I'd consider an Audi for aesthetic design, and a Lexus/Acura for reliability, or hell the new Jaguar XF is a instant classic. BMW is not the #1 choice of luxury nor does it strive to be. The company has always pride itself for a blend of performance and luxury. A claim that seems like a stretch on the less powered models.

If I have 70k (ballpark) to spend on a car today I am not sure I would toss it on the M3 which is a jewel of a car but luxury doesn't mean much for me; I am speedaholic. My money would be on the cayman s with a x51 conversion later on or a GTR.
People don't understand that competition is good. I'm taking my hard earned money to whoever can put a grin on my face and it can be Cadillac why not..... The new CTS is a good car and a smaller car is welcomed..if I could buy a cheaper (3 series inspired car)I would....wait I did

I still don't get what is so special about bmw interiors...a cts has a better interior than a 3 or 5 series. Germans beside Audi are known for austere interiors.
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An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

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Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      08-13-2009, 09:08 AM   #63
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A friend of mine boight a 2010 CTS. He said it was a POS so i wouldnt go for a caddy...
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      08-13-2009, 09:24 AM   #64
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They already have one of these in Europe, nothing but a more expensive 9-3. I hope they learn their lesson and give us a proper, well performing car that belongs in these times, not another bloody Vectra (Insignia, Lacrosse etc.).



Pardon me if mistaken, but i thought that the Converj was supposed to be the posh Volt.
Saab is being sold.

The 9-3 is FWD. The Caddy is RWD. The Saab is built off their Epsilon platform that also does their various mid-size and small models around the world.
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      08-13-2009, 07:13 PM   #65
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Saab is being sold.

The 9-3 is FWD. The Caddy is RWD. The Saab is built off their Epsilon platform that also does their various mid-size and small models around the world.
No, you are mistaken. They build a smaller Cadillac in Europe (alongside the 9-3), called the BLS.

I do understand that the new one is based on a shortened Alpha platform but i still cant see if that would suddenly vault in into being competitive (it took Infiniti a few tries to even get close to class standards).
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      08-13-2009, 08:53 PM   #66
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Time to spread some knowledge

where ignorance is running rabid.

Quote:
I do understand that the new one is based on a shortened Alpha platform but i still cant see if that would suddenly vault in into being competitive (it took Infiniti a few tries to even get close to class standards).
And how do you think GM got the CTS to where it is today? Half their work is already done from a development assessment. The platform mind you is still unconfirmed. There's even talk of the platform being a shortened version of the Sigma II platform which is a heavily modified version of the 1st-gen Sigma platform for the original CTS and SRX. It could be Alpha, but that's been speculation since knowledge of such a platform came into existence.

As far as quality goes the interior of the CTS is quite nice though still laden with hard fancily painted and designed plastic. It's just something you can't get away from in any new car today. By and large it's a major improvement over previous models from the General. There was much to be said about the interiors of some of the future Cadillac models previewed at the Product and Technology event hosted by General Motors earlier this week, mostly positive things (don't have the link to the article, but do a google search on "Cadillac" under the "news" tab and the article should pop up).

I'm amazed at how much misinformation a lot of you have about the "new GM". Not that I'm some huge advocate for GM or anything close, but I am a very well informed and rounded car nut. So before anymore endless banter smothered in ignorance continues please take the time to do your research before you press "reply". Here, hopefully this will help many of you in carrying on further discussion on this new entry level Cadillac mode beingl more well informed on the "facts": http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...=2&docid=56133

As for BMW reliability/long-term quality...why do you think BMW initiated the "Free Maintenance" program? If one has done any research or talked to any prospective BMW buyer typically one of the concerns they'll express is how reliable or expensive the car will be to maintain. These buyers are kind of like the undecided voters of the most previous presidential election for BMW, so of course there must be action taken to convince these consumers that they "should" purchase/lease a new BMW. Well hell, no cost to me as the consumer for anything that goes wrong at least for the next four years I have this car? Have at it! Even more a feather in the cap for the BMW lessee who really doesn't give a rat's ass what happens to his car while he owns it or afterwords. Combine that with the scant maintenance schedule with ridiculous oil change intervals and a list of "lifetime" fills and you have second hand Bimmers waiting to implode. But that's a whole other story for another thread. Let us not forget the many E65/6's lemoned and bought back by BMW AG, and even at the end of the cars lifespan it was still of shoddy build quality. How much BMW has learned in building higher quality cars over the past ten years is questionable. How much BMW has learned about cutting and keeping costs down in an effort to be more financially "sustainable" appears to be exorbitant.

A BMW hater? Certainly not. Love the cars and little else out there compares from a price for driving dynamics standpoint. But through years of consistent research and observation the company and it's products are not all it's cracked up to be, and that is for certain. Competition is getting stiffer and the air is getting thinner in the entry level luxury car segment where both the "ATS" and 3er compete. The crown is teetering atop the E90's roof.
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