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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > FMIC Comparison - Data Compilation



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      11-04-2009, 04:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
how about pressure drops for various FMIC... should this be a concern? Few state this in their numbers. Anyone know stock pressure drop?
From HP
http://www.hpashop.com/product.sc?pr...categoryId=110

Stock boost level
+15.4rwhp @ 5310rpm
+15.2rwtq @ 5310rpm

Pressure drop stock boost level
stock - 1.2psi @ 6450rpm
Code3 - 0.6psi @ 5350rpm

Upgraded boost level (14psi)
+26.6rwhp @ 6040rpm
+23.1rwtq @ 6040rpm

Pressure drop upgraded boost level
stock - 1.5psi @ 5950rpm
Code3 - 0.7psi @ 5550rpm
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      11-04-2009, 06:59 PM   #24
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I know ambient face is the most important, but how much of that is negated by the fact that our bumpers cover/block more than half of some of the aftermarket intercoolers
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      11-05-2009, 09:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan View Post
I know ambient face is the most important, but how much of that is negated by the fact that our bumpers cover/block more than half of some of the aftermarket intercoolers
For this reason, on most of our cars, over-doing the face size I feel might be a waste. Just adds weight and increases the size of the chamber to fill with boost (possibly more lag and/or boost loss). I think that is why Helix and AMS (and others I am sure) went with some depth to utilize the forced air coming through "bumper hole" more without just making a huge face that isn't seeing air. True it can still provide more of a heat-sink but without the air across it I wonder if that just stays hot longer as well once heated up. On that note, I think the AA one with it's plastic air baffles should help to utilize more of it's larger size efficiently.

But it is all speculation and theory, in reality anything is better than stock so you can't go wrong really.
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      11-05-2009, 07:05 PM   #26
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I can tell you with my stett it keeps my iats within 10-12 degrees daily driving and only rises a couple more degrees at WOT. I think even though it is covered ambient air is still hitting the core. There is no more lag and my throttle response is still great.
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      11-06-2009, 09:27 AM   #27
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A bit more info, a summary table in the first post, some clean-up, and this thread may have to get stickied.

A bit OT here, but does anyone have experience fitting a FMIC to a pre-LCI E90 with the M-sport aero kit? It has a bigger opening in the lower grill to fit a FMIC with more frontal area.
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      11-06-2009, 03:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
A bit more info, a summary table in the first post, some clean-up, and this thread may have to get stickied.

A bit OT here, but does anyone have experience fitting a FMIC to a pre-LCI E90 with the M-sport aero kit? It has a bigger opening in the lower grill to fit a FMIC with more frontal area.
Feel free to modify my post to suit the boards needs. Or PM me the recommendations and I'll make the changes.


EDIT: If anyone is good with making charts off of specific data for easier comparison that would be awesome!
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      11-06-2009, 04:43 PM   #29
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Heres some more info on the Stett.

**ANYONE PLANNING ON TURBO SWAPS DOWN THE ROAD, LOOK NO FURTHER! OUR COOLER WILL HANDLE 620+HP AT 80% CAPACITY**


CONTSTRUCTION:
Stock- aluminum core with crimped on plastic tanks; O-ring seals with plastic pipes
STETT- double welded all aluminum; 4 ply double layer silicone connectors with 304 stainless steel pipes

VOLUME:
Stock- 425 cubic inches
STETT- 600 cubic inches (41% more)

AMBIENT SURFACE AREA:
Stock- 100 sq in
STETT- 200 sq in (100% more) -- Taller (more ambient air exposure and easy penetration- quicker cooling) rather than deeper/thicker which requires more air at a higher velocity to fully penetrate and provide the thermal energy conversion.

Where the stock cooler barely supports stock boost and horsepower levels, our cooler flows over 920cfm and will support over 620hp (80% capacity). Inlet temps are within 10-20 degrees over ambient at 80% capacity or less. Power gains are going to vary depending on your modifications. We don't advertise HP gains because they do GREATLY depend on your modifications and rather than being misleading we feel that the proven design we have and it's specifications sell itself (as it should when purchasing an intercooler). Those running more boost (and more HP) should see more gains and will sustain those gains much more efficiently than the stock cooler.

Installation is not extremely difficult but is probably not ideal for someone looking for their first car mod project. But, this is also a FMIC for the serious modders because it CAN handle and make power above where many other units can't. It does require modification of the plastic shroud behind the bumper but any FMIC like this will require the same (thanks BMW for leaving us no room ). The BMW clamps on the factory intercooler piping are non adjustable and seamless. So it does require cutting these clamps off. Again, any intercooler upgrade that replaces the weak and flimsy stock piping will require this. There are no big, bulky brackets just TWO simple bolts, utilizing existing bolt holes in the car's frame rails. Each kit comes with the cooler, the stainless piping and clamps, the heavy duty 4 ply double layer silicone hoses and the two attaching bolts.
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      11-06-2009, 05:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
A bit more info, a summary table in the first post, some clean-up, and this thread may have to get stickied.

A bit OT here, but does anyone have experience fitting a FMIC to a pre-LCI E90 with the M-sport aero kit? It has a bigger opening in the lower grill to fit a FMIC with more frontal area.
yah that could be interesting altho a bit OT.

For the record I measured that the regular LCI bumper has a 4.75 inch vertical opening for the intercooler. Can other people with different bumpers PM me the measurements of their bumpers.

I'll modify this post so the thread doesn't go further off topic.

E90

LCI Bumper = 4.75
Pre-LCI Bumper =
LCI M-Sport =
Pre-LCI MTec =
///M Bumper =

E92 (same as above will edit later)
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      11-06-2009, 05:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan View Post
yah that could be interesting altho a bit OT.

For the record I measured that the regular LCI bumper has a 4.75 inch vertical opening for the intercooler. Can other people with different bumpers PM me the measurements of their bumpers.

I'll modify this post so the thread doesn't go further off topic.

E90

LCI Bumper = 4.75
Pre-LCI Bumper =
LCI M-Sport =
Pre-LCI MTec =
///M Bumper =

E92 (same as above will edit later)

I will update with the vertical effective area on my pre-lci non msport bumper when I get home. This will be a measurement from the rear of the opening, not from the front.
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      11-06-2009, 06:11 PM   #32
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I guess we still need stats on the following:

RPI
Code3/Spearco
"The Ebay FMIC"

Does the RPI still exist? Haven't heard anything on that one in a while .....
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      11-07-2009, 02:24 AM   #33
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Giving the N54 a much needed chill pill! FMIC testing underway…

by cp-e™ on Sep.03, 2009,

cp-e™ has suspected that the performance of the factory front mounted intercooler for the N54 was less than satisfactory. This is especially true when folks start cramming unholy amounts of boost into their engines with the various tuning devices that have flooded the market. Interestingly, despite all of these high-horsepower Bimmers, it doesn’t look look anyone has really done their homework to see how the factory components perform, and where improvements should be made. In other words, how do you improve on a product if you don’t have a clear grasp on how it performs? There is some intercooler data out there from other manufacturers, but the majority of the data is incomplete, and as such is pretty much useless. If you don’t know the temperature of the air entering the intercooler, then the rest of the data has no reference, and should not be used! Instead of operating on assumptions or just looking at boosted air temperature, cp-e™ did what it does best and really put the factory intercooler through the wringer. It took some work, but the knowledge we gained was more than worth the effort.




In these pictures you can see the instrumentation we installed into the factory and cp-e™ intercoolers. We installed temperature and pressure sensors on the inlet, and outlet of the intercooler. We also installed an ambient temperature sensor directly in front of both intercoolers. With this data, we can calculate turbocharger efficiency, intercooler efficiency, total temperature drop, and the pressure drop under varying conditions. This orgy of information is enough for us to identify exactly how well the factory core performs, and where we stand to improve on the design. It also indicates exactly how “happy” the turbos are at higher than factory boost levels.


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      11-07-2009, 06:06 PM   #34
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rpi >>> i had one and was very pleased
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      11-09-2009, 08:46 AM   #35
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According to "Imran@Evolve"

[Edit] Wrong measurement .. will update later.

Last edited by Rubas; 11-09-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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      11-09-2009, 04:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubas View Post
According to "Imran@Evolve"

[Edit] Wrong measurement .. will update later.
I've edited the Forge information with the correct sizes as well as a new dyno sheet before and after the Forge IC on a stock car. Any vendors that will take the time to PM me exactly what they want appended or added, I will update the first post with that information. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to sit around and clean it up too much. Any moderator can feel free to move things around/organize if you wish.
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      11-10-2009, 01:53 AM   #37
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As ETS is not in here I copied some information out of some other posts.

Here some dimensions I found of the ETS FMIC

Core Dims: 20"x 5.5" x 5"
Suraface Area: 110"
Inlet: 2.5"
Outlet: 2.75" (This matches the throttle body and helps eliminate any back pressure)

CFM/HP: 731cfm - 489hp


The retail price on this unit will be $980.00, but we are looking for a few customers to test fitment at a reduced rate ($770.00). The intercooler installs with no cutting or trimming.

The intercooler can be purchased here.

ETS 335i Intercooler Only[/url] (Includes Intercooler, Intercooler Pipe, Couplers and Clamps) Everything for a direct bolt on. This is also backed with the ETS life time warranty! If anything happens to the intercooler due to a manufacture defect we will fix it! or replace it!

Test Data (Automatic Car)


Stock Intercooler (Bad Plugs and Stage 1 Tune)


ETS Intercooler (Bad Plugs and Stage 1 Tune)


4th Gear Pull - ETS vs Stock (Bad Plugs and Stage 1 Tune)


Stock IC vs ETS Gear Comparison


Start Log File (Same Outlet Temps)


Start Pull - The stock intercooler will start to heat up at idle.


Middle Pull - 1:00 minute into the pull the outlet temps have a 37.8 degree difference.


End Pull - 1:05 into the pull the outlet temps have a difference of 59.4 degree.


1st Through 4th Gear Pull - Stock VS ETS Intercooler (Bad Plugs w/ Stage 1)


Top of 1st Gear Pull


Top of 2nd Gear Pull


Top of 3rd Gear Pull


Top of 4th Gear Pull


15 Sec. after pull.


30 Sec. after pull. - The car still has a 42 degree temp difference between the two, I can't even imagine what the temps are like after a few pulls.


It's amazing what a good set of plugs can do. We didn't have time to go through all the tests again with good plugs, but you can get a good idea of how good this intercooler works. All tests were done on an Automatic 335i.

Product Pictures


Stock vs ETS (Direct Bolt On)




Available In Blue, Black, Red and Gold Anodizing


Installed Picture (No Cutting Required)

Last edited by marcel b; 11-10-2009 at 03:22 AM.
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      11-10-2009, 02:00 AM   #38
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sticky this or atleast put it in the mods list thread please
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      11-10-2009, 10:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToadHollow View Post
I guess we still need stats on the following:

RPI
Code3/Spearco
"The Ebay FMIC"

Does the RPI still exist? Haven't heard anything on that one in a while .....
I have the RPI. Some knock it because it's not the cheapest and uses the stock couplers to attach. It does make install/removal super easy, about 15 minutes.

Very well made and it's definitely helped retain power over subsequent runs and on the track vs. stock.
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      11-10-2009, 01:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
how about pressure drops for various FMIC... should this be a concern? Few state this in their numbers. Anyone know stock pressure drop?
YES, i have read that pressure drop is probably the most important performance number for an IC... but the vendors do not usually list this info.

this way it is hared to make direct comparisons and project which IC would perform the best on the street.

my 2 cents
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      11-13-2009, 08:24 PM   #41
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ETS BMW 335i Intercooler Kit
The ETS intercooler Kit Features
  • Full Intercooler Kit- Includes Intercooler, Charge Pipe, Couplers,Clamps
  • Direct Bolt on with absolutely no cutting
  • Replaces Restrictive Stock Piping
  • Max HP Gains of 21.05hp
  • Over 60deg Lower Temps
  • No Heat Soak after a Pull
  • Reduces Knock
  • Durable Stainless Steel Piping
  • 4 Ply Silicone Couplers
  • Breeze Premium T-Bolt Clamps



Note how the inlet and outlets are staggered. The inlet is at the top of the cooler and the outlet is at the bottom. This design will force the air to flow through the whole cooler, not just straight across as if both inlet and outlets were on the top.

Also note the radiator shroud tabs at the bottom of the cooler.

Side by side shot of the whole system illustrates why we designed a whole new kit and not just a bolt on intercooler. Below are the main reasons we feel replacement of the stock piping is in order:
  • Stock system has an accordion hose at the inlet. This hose will create turbulence because of the ribbed design.
    • ETS Solution- Extend the inlet tube to reach the stock turbo outlet pipe and use a straight, smooth silicone coupler.
  • 90deg bend at the intercooler outlet is restrictive to flow.
    • ETS Solution- Split the sharp 90deg bend up into a 60deg and a 30deg bend. This still makes a 90deg turn, but is not as sharp as the stock 90deg hose. This allows for better airflow post intercooler.
  • Plastic Pipe has restrictive dimples protruding into the airstream.
    • ETS Solution- Use a Stainless Steel mandrel bent pipe that is uniform inner diameter throughout it's length improves flow as well.


Analysis of Stock Intercooler,
Base Test on a stage 1 vehicle at 12psi shows good power, but a flat spot in the mid range power between 5000-5700rpm is likely due to the rapidly rising outlet temps of the inefficient stock intercooler. Based upon the 100deg mid pull temps, and the 125deg end of pull temp, there is definitely room for improvement over the stock intercooler.


Analysis of ETS Intercooler,
Upon installation of the ETS Intercooler Kit, the car shows a 21.05hp increase and makes 361 peak hp. Outlet temps are only 59deg at mid pull and the temps only rise to 66deg at the end of the run. These temps are signifigantly lower than stock, and it is no surprise that there is a substancial power increase with the intercooler kit installed. Aside from the midrange, we also noticed a slight Increase in top end power as well. This can be attributed in part to the ETS Replacement Charge Pipe which replaces the plastic stock pipe with the 2 restrictve dimples that protrude into the flow area of the pipe.
Through Gears Test


As our test car was an automatic, it was a perfect candidate for a pull through all 4 gears.This is the test that really shows the difference in the ETS Kit vs. the stock intercooler as this test will put a lot of heat into the system in 1st and 2nd gears, which should show the stock units shortcomings as it gets to the high load areas of 3rd and 4th gear.
In this test we see both intercoolers start out at 50deg, by the top of second gear the ETS intercooler is only up to 57deg, while the stock unit is already at 78deg. By the time we get to the top of third gear, the stock cooler has heat soaked, and the charge temps are up to 124, which is way too hot to safely control knock. While the stock intercooler is struggling in 3rd gear, the ETS intercooler is handling the temps with ease, yielding a 69deg charge air temperature. As the car shifts into 4th, the stock intercooler continues to struggle to control the charge air temps, and fails miserably, ending up at 158deg, and even causing timing to be pulled enough that we see two noticeable dips in power.
The ETS intercooler on the other hand, is handling the load of 4th gear without issue, and is returning good power throughout the rest of the pull. Charge temps rise to only 91deg, and we see a max power difference of 25hp. This is a considerable improvement over the stock unit, and is a difference you can really feel in the drivers seat.

30sec. After Pull Analasys,
The above graph illustrates the how well the ETS intercooler deals with heat even after the pull. As illustrated, the ETS intercooler just never gets hot, and even 30seconds after a run through all the gears, the ETS unit is only 69deg while the stock cooler is still over 110deg. These low after pull temps are important because it means that with the ETS intercooler System you ready to make another pull, while the stock cooler is best left to cool down for at least a few minutes.
Stage 1 Race Gas

After all of the design testing was completed, we ran the car on unleaded MS109 racegas and turned up the torque table settings. The outcome was 393whp and 414tq. Not bad for a stage 1 automatic car, with just intake, intercooler, and a tune
Anodized Intercooler Option
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      11-16-2009, 05:34 PM   #42
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Here is some additional ETS i/c info:

ETS Core:
Weight: 13lbs
Type: Bar and Plate
Tall: 5.5" Tall
Thick: 5.0" Thick
Wide: 20.0" Wide

BMW Core:
Weight: 7lbs
Type: Tube and Fin
Tall: 5.0" Tall
Thick: 4.0" (Dual Pass Core w/ .25" plate in center)
Wide: 20.0"

10% Surface Area Increase Over Stock

37% Volume Increase Over Stock
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      11-16-2009, 05:48 PM   #43
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doesn´t anyone have RPI info ?

i am happy with my RPI IC, but curious as to which IC is best for upgraded 335 turbos.
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      11-16-2009, 10:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
doesn´t anyone have RPI info ?

i am happy with my RPI IC, but curious as to which IC is best for upgraded 335 turbos.
heyyyy another rpi guy, sweet. lol. im also curious on actual data.
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