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      03-06-2010, 01:45 PM   #155
335xiRT1
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I'm running the ETS FMIC, unable to post datlogs, but curious to know if these stats sound right...
did a 2-3-4 gear pull:
outside temp. is: 50degrees
15.5 avg. psi
the starting IAT temp was: 75
by the end of 4th gear IAT was: 105
what do you think??
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      03-06-2010, 03:43 PM   #156
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This data can be manipulated pretty easily depending on what type of intake one may have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
I was not aiming that quote at anyone in particular, I just want to open peoples eyes as to the realities of the FMIC landscape and things to look for in regards to real data vs marketing hype... Interestingly enough i use a very good turbo outlet temp calculator that also generates a FMIC efficiency using data that is provided in this thread that answers your ?'s about starting and ending temps.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm

using this calculator with the provided data we can see how efficient each unit is in a real world situation and is all based in Physics Law(an exact science). heres the data i got using the calculator, feel free to try it yourself its actually very eye opening. When designing a FMIC I use this during prototyping to determine the best balance of internal fin density and charge row/ambient row height as we don't use an "off the shelf" core!

Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator

inlet temperature-(use the ambient temperature to standardize the test)

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)

compressor efficiency-70%(this can be found by mapping the #'s on a compressor map OR to datalog intercooler inlet temps, lets use 70% to standardize the testing as all are running similar boost levels)

Outlet Temp- (this is the temperature leaving the turbo and entering the FMIC)

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator


IC input Temperature-(this is the Outlet Temp from the previous calculation)

IC Efficiency-(This is the how efficient the FMIC is in this test, it is also the factor you play with to try and match up to the known plenum temp(ending datalogged ait at the end of the run))

IC Pressure loss-.5 (this is the pressure drop through the core, lets use .5 psi to standardize the test)

Ambient Temp-(this is the ambient temp and also the turbo inlet temp)

Plenum Temp-(this is the datalogged ait temp at the end of the 2-3-4 gear run)


now lets crunch the #'s...

HELIX-Intercooler Efficiency 86% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-85
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 249

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-249
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-85
Plenum Temp-108
IC Efficiency-86%

ETS-Intercooler Efficiency 80% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-50
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-?
compressor efficiency-***using datalogged output temp***
Outlet Temp- 248 ***taken from datalog***

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-248
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-50
Plenum Temp-91
IC Efficiency-80%

AMS-Intercooler Efficiency 79% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-58
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 214

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-214
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-58
Plenum Temp-112
IC Efficiency-79%

SPEARCO/Code 3-Intercooler Efficiency 54% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-65
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 223

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-223
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-65
Plenum Temp-139
IC Efficiency-54%

What this data shows is the efficency and also the FMICs ability to thwart heatsoak through 2-3-4 gears, you can also get single gear efficiencies using the data provided
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      03-08-2010, 05:51 PM   #157
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didn't think the Spearco would fair so poorly on this test. what is the efficiency of the stocker
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      03-11-2010, 01:34 PM   #158
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Cmon guys we STILL need INDEPENDANT 2-3-4 gear datalogs from the following manufacturers FMICS:
-HPF
-AA
-RPI
-VK
-Stett
-ETS
-forge


please make sure the tests are done between 58-85 degree ambient temps and at a boost level of 13.5-14.5 psi so we can standardize the testing!

log boost, ait and rpm and note ambient temperature at time of test!
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      03-11-2010, 01:35 PM   #159
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it's still winter for a lot of us
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      03-11-2010, 01:35 PM   #160
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Kind of tough to change the weather...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
Cmon guys we STILL need INDEPENDANT 2-3-4 gear datalogs from the following manufacturers FMICS:
-HPF
-AA
-RPI
-VK
-Stett
-ETS
-forge


please make sure the tests are done between 58-85 degree ambient temps and at a boost level of 13.5-14.5 psi so we can standardize the testing!

log boost, ait and rpm and note ambient temperature at time of test!
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      03-11-2010, 03:02 PM   #161
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I did my ETS but it was ambient of 50.
and i was running 15.5psi
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      03-15-2010, 07:56 PM   #162
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could someone please do a comparison with the HPF FMIC
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      03-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #163
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Does the Forge intercooler work with cars equipped with the active cruise control?
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      03-24-2010, 05:53 PM   #164
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Could you please list the ambient RH (if measured) for each of these tests?
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      03-25-2010, 12:59 PM   #165
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Redid my test of my ETS FMIC..
2-3-4 gear run @ WOT
Running DCI, Catless DP's and exhaust.

Ambient Temp: 58
PSi: 14.5
Starting IAT: 73
Ending IAT: 96


Last edited by 335xiRT1; 03-25-2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: wrong
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      03-25-2010, 02:45 PM   #166
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ETS Data

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335xiRT1 View Post
Redid my test of my ETS FMIC..
2-3-4 gear run @ WOT
Running DCI, Catless DP's and exhaust.

Ambient Temp: 58
PSi: 14.5
Starting IAT: 73
Ending IAT: 96



I just want to open peoples eyes as to the realities of the FMIC landscape and things to look for in regards to real data vs marketing hype... Interestingly enough i use a very good turbo outlet temp calculator that also generates a FMIC efficiency using data that is provided in this thread that answers your ?'s about starting and ending temps.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm

using this calculator with the provided data we can see how efficient each unit is in a real world situation and is all based in Physics Law(an exact science). heres the data i got using the calculator, feel free to try it yourself its actually very eye opening. When designing a FMIC I use this during prototyping to determine the best balance of internal fin density and charge row/ambient row height as we don't use an "off the shelf" core!

Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator

inlet temperature-(use the ambient temperature to standardize the test)

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)

compressor efficiency-70%(this can be found by mapping the #'s on a compressor map OR to datalog intercooler inlet temps, lets use 70% to standardize the testing as all are running similar boost levels)

Outlet Temp- (this is the temperature leaving the turbo and entering the FMIC)

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator


IC input Temperature-(this is the Outlet Temp from the previous calculation)

IC Efficiency-(This is the how efficient the FMIC is in this test, it is also the factor you play with to try and match up to the known plenum temp(ending datalogged ait at the end of the run))

IC Pressure loss-.5 (this is the pressure drop through the core, lets use .5 psi to standardize the test)

Ambient Temp-(this is the ambient temp and also the turbo inlet temp)

Plenum Temp-(this is the datalogged ait temp at the end of the 2-3-4 gear run)


now lets crunch the #'s...

HELIX-Intercooler Efficiency 86% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-85
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 249

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-249
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-85
Plenum Temp-108
IC Efficiency-86%

AMS-Intercooler Efficiency 79% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-58
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 214

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-214
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-58
Plenum Temp-112
IC Efficiency-79%

ETS-Intercooler Efficiency 78% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-58
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14.5
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 213

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-213
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-58
Plenum Temp-93
IC Efficiency-78%

SPEARCO/Code 3-Intercooler Efficiency 54% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-65
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 223

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-223
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-65
Plenum Temp-139
IC Efficiency-54%

What this data shows is the efficency and also the FMICs ability to thwart heatsoak through 2-3-4 gears, you can also get single gear efficiencies using the data provided

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 03-25-2010 at 03:22 PM.
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      03-25-2010, 04:47 PM   #167
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thanks for making these comparisons
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      03-25-2010, 05:43 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
thanks for making these comparisons
No problem and I hope we can get data on all the available FMICs...
we STILL need INDEPENDANT 2-3-4 gear datalogs from the following manufacturers FMICS:
-HPF
-AA
-RPI
-VK
-Stett
-forge


please make sure the tests are done between 58-85 degree ambient temps and at a boost level of 13.5-14.5 psi so we can standardize the testing!

log boost, ait and rpm and note ambient temperature at time of test!
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      03-25-2010, 05:45 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
thanks for making these comparisons
No problem and I hope we can get data on all the available FMICs...
we STILL need INDEPENDANT 2-3-4 gear datalogs from the following manufacturers FMICS:
-HPF
-AA
-RPI
-VK
-Stett
-forge


please make sure the tests are done between 58-85 degree ambient temps and at a boost level of 13.5-14.5 psi so we can standardize the testing!

log boost, ait and rpm and note ambient temperature at time of test!
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      03-26-2010, 01:47 AM   #170
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I see that in and output pressure for the ETS is the same (14,5). Is this correct like this as this would mean there is no pressure drop... or?
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      03-26-2010, 04:33 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
I see that in and output pressure for the ETS is the same (14,5). Is this correct like this as this would mean there is no pressure drop... or?
The computation handles the pressure drop!

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)
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      03-26-2010, 05:47 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
The computation handles the pressure drop!

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)
OK, the input pressure I understood, but if I do not understand how the output pressure can be 14.5 as well with a pressure loss of 0.5

input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14.5
IC Pressure loss-.5

For the other FMIC this adds up, just for the ETS it doesn't seem to. (Or I am assuming there is a relationship which is not there....)
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      03-26-2010, 07:57 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
OK, the input pressure I understood, but if I do not understand how the output pressure can be 14.5 as well with a pressure loss of 0.5

input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14.5
IC Pressure loss-.5

For the other FMIC this adds up, just for the ETS it doesn't seem to. (Or I am assuming there is a relationship which is not there....)
the input pressure is the ambient barometric pressure which is always 14.5 at sea level it has nothing to do with boost pressure,(unless you are at a very high altitude or very low valley) which is the measured pressure above the input pressure/barometric pressure!
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      03-26-2010, 08:00 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
the input pressure is the ambient barometric pressure which is always 14.5 at sea level it has nothing to do with boost pressure,(unless you are at a very high altitude or very low valley) which is the measured pressure above the input pressure/barometric pressure!
Now I got it, thank you for your patience
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      04-02-2010, 10:21 AM   #175
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Anybody got details on the Agency Power IC?

http://www.jlevistreetwerks.com/p916...duct_info.html

One thing I will say is the quote I got (from seller other than ^) is really tempting
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Last edited by 335e92tx; 04-02-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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      04-02-2010, 12:23 PM   #176
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The core kinda looks like that cheap ebay one floating around.
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