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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > 335xi or i?? NY Winters



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      09-17-2009, 04:15 PM   #23
silylanjie
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Some how I managed to get through the last winter fine... E92 328xi 18" RFT sport package.. I'm from MA...
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      09-19-2009, 09:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungGuna86 View Post
seems like everyone buys snow tires anyway even for the xi...

So y buy the xi? y not buy a 335i with snow tires or for that matter just grab a faster and cheaper 135i with snow tires
Because the Xi with dedicated snow tires is a 300+ hp snowmobile and is worlds better than an i with snow tires.

I have a 2008 335 Xi coupe with sport package. I run 18" M6 reps, same width front and rear, with Dunlop snows. The car is a dream to drive in any snowy condition. I look forward to playing in fresh deep snow with this car. Stupid traction from the dig and in the corners.

Nothing competes with an all wheel drive car with aggressive snows, regardless of what anyone says about how well their rear wheel drives (w/snows) do in the snow.

Last edited by devo; 09-19-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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      09-21-2009, 01:57 PM   #25
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I'm picking up a 335i xDrive in Munich next month. I recently turned in a 335i at lease end and would have gotten another 335i if a LSD was a realistic option. I've had many Audis in the past and the benefits of all-wheel drive really are year-round. The 335i has too much torque for an open diff no matter how much rubber you have (especially if you chip it). If the road is wet or there's loose dirt on the road you're not going anywhere fast. This was really annoying trying to start out from some intersections and merge with oncoming traffic. I'd much rather have the confidence of all-wheel drive grip and knowing that the car will jump when I want to accelerate. For me, the choice was getting the 335i and putting on an aftermarket LSD or get the xDrive and lower it (easier on the wallet and warranty). Test drive both in the rain then make your decision.
I live in Milwaukee, WI. We get our fair share of snow during the winter months (usually Jan-Apr, although some times it starts in Nov), and some heavy rains (Sep-Dec and Apr-Jun). We do have beautiful warm/sunny days. However, in proportion, they feel short.

I have survived for the last nine years with a 2000 323i 4D sedan with factory installed 16" wheels and all-season tires, and a 2004 330i 4D sedan with factory installed 17" wheel and all-season tires (sport suspension was standard in this model).

I am considering getting a 2010 335i 4D sedan with sport package. I was considering replacing the factory installed performance tires with all-season tires. However, after many comments, I was thinking about getting a new set of 17" wheels with winter tires.

The 2004 330i 4D sedan has 225 HP. The 2010 335i 4D sedan has 300 HP. Is this significant enough to become an issue in rainy/snowy/icy conditions regardless of tires installed?

Should I instead consider the 335 xDrive with sport package for Milwaukee, WI driving conditions (and either get all-season or an extra set of winter tires)?

How much performance/handling do you lose during the Summer months in normal driving conditions (no race track, just spirited driving) compared to a 335i with sport package?

Thanks!
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      09-21-2009, 02:39 PM   #26
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I honestly think it's a no-brainer. The xDrive gets a bad rap on the forums because of its suspension but it's a must if you live in cold climates and deal with a lot of snow. If suspension is a huge deal for you, just put a set of coilovers on and it'll be worlds better than the standard sport suspension on a 335i anyway.
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      09-28-2009, 12:41 AM   #27
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and hitting a patch of black ice on a sunny clear winter day is much more reassuring in an xi than an i. Even if the i has the best snow tires in the world.

Last time I hit the patch while making a left turn, I started sliding, Front wheels dug in as soon as they had grip, and I stayed on the road and continued with little drama.. The 2 RWD cars behind me weren't as lucky. The benz spun out and luckily hit nothing while the 325ci went off the road.
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      09-28-2009, 02:19 AM   #28
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In the New England area I'll go with the Xdrive.. when I had my FD3S RX-7 rwd (sorry about the non-bmw comparison) with snow tires it was difficult driving during the winter... most of the winter it just been sitting in the garage.. thats why at the end I had to get rid of it and went for the BMW XI... I have friends with G35 and BMW I' always telling me hard difficult to get through the winter... slip and sliding even with traction control..
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      09-28-2009, 11:25 AM   #29
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northeast winters

u need to stick w/ the 335xi for the winters up here. i actually went to tirerack and bought a set of smaller 17" borbet rims and snow tires and ran them for one season. the car never missed a beat, never slide, nothing! handled unbelievabley well w/ the AWD and snows. w/o a doubt, u have to get snow tires and i wudn't even consider the 335i and snows personally.
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      09-28-2009, 10:17 PM   #30
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How is the xDrive in the snow? Have you guys ever gotten stuck?

I am coming from Subaru AWD (I run snow tires too) which has a center diff and is 50/50 all the time. I'm worried the 10/90 or whatever xi runs will not be able to handle a NY winter.
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      09-28-2009, 11:25 PM   #31
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It is usually 40:60. It can transfer up to 100% forward or Back.

I was once snowed into a parking spot. Foot of slick snow under the car and about 2-3 feet all around it. I have 16" all-seasons. I just threw it in reverse, hit the gas, backed right out. No drama. Everyone else is shoveling themselves out of their spots or spinning their wheels. I love AWD. I have never gotten stuck.
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      09-29-2009, 09:01 AM   #32
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i run mine w/ Snows during the winter, and havne't even come close to getting stuck. the X-drive is awesome. buddy of mine has an STi that he runs snows on in the winters, and is stuck all the time, in fact, i drove him home from work last winter b/c he cudn't get out of a spot that my 335 cpe plowed out of w/o any hesitation.
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      09-29-2009, 10:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesdinane92 View Post
i run mine w/ Snows during the winter, and havne't even come close to getting stuck. the X-drive is awesome. buddy of mine has an STi that he runs snows on in the winters, and is stuck all the time, in fact, i drove him home from work last winter b/c he cudn't get out of a spot that my 335 cpe plowed out of w/o any hesitation.
That is surprising - is he lowered? My 2005 STI was much better in the snow than my XI. The control you have over the STI's system combined with front and rear LSD's made that car far superior IMHO.
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      09-29-2009, 10:39 AM   #34
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Summer tires from a sport packaged xi are NOT usable in any amount of snow. They are downright dangerous. Been there, done that and lived to write this warning. You can start off okay, but stopping and turning are non-existent in any amount of snow or ice.
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      09-29-2009, 10:45 AM   #35
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I have snow in my forecast for tonight and next weekend.............doh!
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      09-29-2009, 11:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D0WNxiSH1FT View Post
How is the xDrive in the snow? Have you guys ever gotten stuck?

I am coming from Subaru AWD (I run snow tires too) which has a center diff and is 50/50 all the time. I'm worried the 10/90 or whatever xi runs will not be able to handle a NY winter.
335 Xi coupe six speed with 18" Dunlop snows on all four corners. I have driven aggressively in 6-8 inches of snow trying to find limitations and could find none. The car is an absolute blast to drive in any condition, be it heavy rain or snow. I look forward to winter driving because of this car. An i can not replicate the Xi regardless of what tires the i uses.

BTW, I live in Upstate NY where get a lot of snow; wet heavy stuff, all of it.

Last edited by devo; 09-29-2009 at 12:45 PM.
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      09-29-2009, 11:59 AM   #37
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not true. The e90 stability control will take care of you, even with RWD. You can't compare that to older cars.

Driving in snow, I almost got T'ed by a 328XI last year turning into my subdivision. He didn't have snow tires and lost control of his car when I slowed and turned in front of him. Good thing no one was coming the other direction, or he would have it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Deep View Post
and hitting a patch of black ice on a sunny clear winter day is much more reassuring in an xi than an i. Even if the i has the best snow tires in the world.

Last time I hit the patch while making a left turn, I started sliding, Front wheels dug in as soon as they had grip, and I stayed on the road and continued with little drama.. The 2 RWD cars behind me weren't as lucky. The benz spun out and luckily hit nothing while the 325ci went off the road.
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      09-29-2009, 12:03 PM   #38
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You had a stick?

Most of the Subie autos are 90%-10% split. Even with a stick, it is a FWD car with a Viscous LSD to get the tire to the rear. You'll never get the rear wheels to spin unless the front is spinning also. You'll be better off with the BMW system (unless you are talking STI). However, no rear LSD on the BMW - very few have Subies have that, but a few do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D0WNxiSH1FT View Post
How is the xDrive in the snow? Have you guys ever gotten stuck?

I am coming from Subaru AWD (I run snow tires too) which has a center diff and is 50/50 all the time. I'm worried the 10/90 or whatever xi runs will not be able to handle a NY winter.
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      09-29-2009, 12:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz58 View Post
not true. The e90 stability control will take care of you, even with RWD. You can't compare that to older cars.

Driving in snow, I almost got T'ed by a 328XI last year turning into my subdivision. He didn't have snow tires and lost control of his car when I slowed and turned in front of him. Good thing no one was coming the other direction, or he would have it.
Contemporary i's are far better than their predecessors, but still no match for an Xi with relative tires in any inclement weather condition.

Xi doesn't necessarily make you stop any better without snows. So you're judging Xi's prowess after turning in front of one without snows in snowy conditions?

Last edited by devo; 09-29-2009 at 12:53 PM.
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      09-29-2009, 12:37 PM   #40
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To the OP:

If you are even considering driving in the snow, the XI is a must. BMW's are known for performing below average in harsh conditions. With that said, an XI alone will be OK for winters. An XI with snow tires will be great. Coming from someone who lives in Chicago where it snow's frequently, I can realistically say that the XI is a must. It's not so much the acceleration portion that is affected, but rather the handling/stopping. You also will learn to keep applying throttle when you loost traction such that the fronts can pull you back into place.

Listen at your own risk to someone who has an non-XI vehicle and drives in the snow and tells you that it is fine. Unless you are planning on consistantly tracking/agressively driving your vehicle at high speeds, my reccomendation is go AWD!
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      09-29-2009, 01:44 PM   #41
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You had a stick?

Most of the Subie autos are 90%-10% split. Even with a stick, it is a FWD car with a Viscous LSD to get the tire to the rear. You'll never get the rear wheels to spin unless the front is spinning also. You'll be better off with the BMW system (unless you are talking STI). However, no rear LSD on the BMW - very few have Subies have that, but a few do.
No subies are 90/10. They are all 50/50 except the STI.

They are also not FWD based systems. Those are derived from cars with transverse mounted engines. They are designed as AWD from the beginning. Subaru has a very unique AWD system.
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      09-29-2009, 03:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
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You had a stick?

Most of the Subie autos are 90%-10% split. Even with a stick, it is a FWD car with a Viscous LSD to get the tire to the rear. You'll never get the rear wheels to spin unless the front is spinning also. You'll be better off with the BMW system (unless you are talking STI). However, no rear LSD on the BMW - very few have Subies have that, but a few do.
All manual Subarus have center differentials and a 50/50 split (STI is 45/55). The only subarus that are 90/10 are the base model 2.5 NA automatics. Even the high end autos (3.6R) have VTD which is a planetary center diff.

My 08 WRX 5MT has a viscous coupling center diff and VDC traction control.
My old 05 WRX 5MT had a viscous coupling center diff and a rear LSD.
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      09-30-2009, 08:34 PM   #43
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Yep. you understand


That Subie viscous center diff isn't the best. I wasn't too fond of it as it made the car handle like a FWD car - I never got the rear to step out unless it was trailbraking with a bit rear bar (the caster in the front end just made things worse).

So, to answer your question, the BMW system is much more ballanced. Unless you expect the car to understeer under all conditions (as Subaru wants), you'll find the BMW system much more user friendly. You aren't going to have a problem getting stuck.


Quote:
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All manual Subarus have center differentials and a 50/50 split (STI is 45/55). The only subarus that are 90/10 are the base model 2.5 NA automatics. Even the high end autos (3.6R) have VTD which is a planetary center diff.

My 08 WRX 5MT has a viscous coupling center diff and VDC traction control.
My old 05 WRX 5MT had a viscous coupling center diff and a rear LSD.
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      09-30-2009, 08:35 PM   #44
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Uh, no.

Just the obvious point that AWD doesn't make up for not having snow tires.
(even though that is what many people expect of it)

Quote:
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Xi doesn't necessarily make you stop any better without snows. So you're judging Xi's prowess after turning in front of one without snows in snowy conditions?
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