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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > AMS FMIC Installed: +23 whp peak, +43 whp @ 6700!



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      09-09-2009, 07:37 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
That is rediculous and this is turning completely into smoke and marketing now. Others clearly see without limiting outside factors that we have no clue what intercooler performs the best. None.

Ok let me give you a better example. Shiv says you shouldn't run stage 3 without a fully catless system. So you dyno on stage 2 with IC, catless DP, intake, and rear section exhaust. Now you add catless downpipes ONLY and run the stage 3 maps and re-dyno. I guarantee you will pick up a bunch of power, but what was from the map and what was from the catless midpipes.

How you can try to ignore this is beyond me. It is the standard for testing. If not, then all you are doing is showing what every single intercooler does. The AMS is no different. Every aftermarket IC on the market has less pressure drop across the unit, everyone is much more efficient than stock, and everyone will reduce IATs allowing more boost.
What is rediculous? What is marketing? I am talking about physics. How an upgraded IC results in more power. We are comparing stock vs AMS intercooler and claiming that AMS intercooler results in more power than stock IC. We have even listed all the reasons behind the fact.

I am sure that AMS and stock IC would perform exactly the same if the pressure drop, boost enabling and IAT decrease were the same. Well, they are not. Far from it.

Why did you begin to talk about which intercooler performs the best in this thread? It is OT. I hope mine is better than AMS's, but who knows, theirs is really good too. Everybody clearly see without limiting outside factors that we have no clue what intercooler performs the best. None. I have been explaining all the time why an IC results in more power. Not how AMS results in more power. Now, I hope we are agreeing on the principle based on what you say in your last sentence.
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      09-09-2009, 07:57 AM   #68
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AMS is not advertising those gains, and neither am I. I simply was showing the before/after dynos on my particular car. As far as the JB3 running more boost with an upgraded IC, it's doing that to some extent on every car with an upgraded one.

As for equal boost pressures, if you look at AMS' stock boost dyno runs, they gained 11 whp at the same boost pressure...which is more of a gain than most see on high boost with other upgraded fmics.
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      09-09-2009, 08:05 AM   #69
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A418t81 - Did the AMS FMIC require modifications to fit properly?
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      09-09-2009, 08:09 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post

An example:

I run 7 psi with the stock intake and then 11 psi with DCI's and it gains 40 rwhp. Does that mean the DCI's gained 40 rwhp on my car or was it because of the increase in boost?
IF the DCI's created that deviation in boost, then yes...the resulting increase in power will be traced back to the addition of DCI's via root cause analysis.
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      09-09-2009, 08:11 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.8t View Post
IF the DCI's created that deviation in boost, then yes...the resulting increase in power will be traced back to the addition of DCI's via root cause analysis.
1.8t if you think the intercooler is the cause for the increase in boost, then run it on a stock car and watch the boost sky rocket! Oh wait?

I just deleted most of my posts. It is not worth it.
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      09-09-2009, 08:16 AM   #72
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Getting flustered solves nothing. I make no claims to know how the E92 chassis's ECM operates. From what I have read thus far though, everyone is saying the increase in boost is directly related to the FMIC. If its because the JB allows a more aggressive boost profile based off IAT's and a more aggressive timing profile as such, then again the resulting power is directly traced to the FMIC.

Stock programming may or may not have this "feature". I drive a stupid mullet car, but I am just offering an outsider's input based off what has been posted in this thread.
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      09-09-2009, 08:40 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.8t View Post
Getting flustered solves nothing. I make no claims to know how the E92 chassis's ECM operates. From what I have read thus far though, everyone is saying the increase in boost is directly related to the FMIC. If its because the JB allows a more aggressive boost profile based off IAT's and a more aggressive timing profile as such, then again the resulting power is directly traced to the FMIC.
So along the same lines, let's say I run a boost profile that results in KR and a lower dyno number. Then I install the proper mods, run the same map, and gain power? Would it be because of the intercooler?
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      09-09-2009, 08:56 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
So along the same lines, let's say I run a boost profile that results in KR and a lower dyno number. Then I install the proper mods, run the same map, and gain power? Would it be because of the intercooler?
The gain in power would be traced to the "proper mods".
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      09-09-2009, 09:11 AM   #75
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This argument is pointless. I think everyone will just have to agree to disagree with former.

FMIC = consistently lower IATs, but untapped power
FMIC + proper tuning = more power, and consistently lower IATs
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      09-09-2009, 09:14 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
This argument is pointless. I think everyone will just have to agree to disagree with former.

FMIC = consistently lower IATs, but untapped power
FMIC + proper tuning = more power, and consistently lower IATs
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      09-09-2009, 09:44 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
This argument is pointless. I think everyone will just have to agree to disagree with former.

FMIC = consistently lower IATs, but untapped power
FMIC + proper tuning = more power, and consistently lower IATs
JP, I am not doubting that tuning isn't required to utilize the power nor is a single person in this thread.

Please tell me how we can compare intercoolers then if we don't control the variables? An engineer will tell you that you compare it through thermal efficiency, pressure loss across the unit, material, surface area, fin number, fin density, etc.
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      09-09-2009, 09:48 AM   #78
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No one in here was comparing IC's until you showed up (and then only you were trying to argue and compare IC's). The OP showed the results of what adding an IC did to his car. That's all.

FWIW I'll be doing a FMIC experiment soon: same car, same tune, same dyno (and road), different IC's - to see the benefits one might have over another everything else being the same.
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      09-09-2009, 09:56 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
It's ok, I don't even begin to try to respect you when it comes to the IC debate No one in here was comparing IC's until YOU showed up (and then only you were trying to argue and compare IC's). The OP showed the results of what adding an IC did to his car. That's all.

FWIW I'll be doing an FMIC test soon: same car, same tune, different IC's.
I will not get drawn into a worthless debate with you. You have shown no technical expertise here and just seem to be here to fluff others and bash me. One thing I don't think you understand, I could care less who has the best intercooler or intake or tune or water/methanol kit or whatever. However, I do want to own the product from the company that does. I think most here agree we all want the best and I am only looking for that answer. Timing logs, IAT data, etc. could all have been terribly helpful here.

Sorry this had to turn into a mess. Can a mod please delete every one of my posts in here. This is not fair at this point to A4 or AMS.
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      09-09-2009, 09:59 AM   #80
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Nice ninja edit on your original "respect" comment, now I look like the bad guy!

Anyways, like I said: I'll have all sorts of fun data for you soon.
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      09-09-2009, 10:08 AM   #81
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I have done back to back interstate racing and the 1st pull is the only good pull. After that the car is VERY NOTICEABLY slower than it was (I have the stock FMIC). Even on the 1st race I can tell after a long 4th gear pull as soon as I shift to 5th the car is just way slower (more than just gearing differences). Not to mention the stock FMIC connectors, look at the output side and you will see the hole is reduced and the couplings are baffled. The better flow of most aftermarket FMIC's (AMS, Helix, etc.) is enough to make that "10 RWHP" even on a stock tune regardless of the IAT improvements. The 43 RWHP gap at the end is due to IAT boost decay and/or timing differences. That is why I don't even run any of these 14+ psi tunes on my car with a stock FMIC... it is just worthless for more than 1 pull if that.

Thanks Eric, and to the OP, for the post and this product. Looks like another great product in our growing line-up. Can't wait to see the weight differences for all of these aftermarket FMIC's before I make my final decision
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      09-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #82
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      09-09-2009, 11:14 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.roro View Post
A418t81 - Did the AMS FMIC require modifications to fit properly?

Ever so slightly, yes. I'm going to make a new post with the pictures I took. I installed mine with absolutely no instructions from AMS, and I thought it was extremely easy and intuitive. The AMS unit requires about 2 cm of material to be removed from a ~14" area along the back of the stock IC shroud. It can easily be done with a dremel tool, though we used a more industrial unit you'll see in the pics

Former, I am sorry to see you get so flustered. I can understand why you want to see the results at the same boost pressure, but none of the piggies that are so widely adopted around here use a static IAT/Boost routine, so I don't see how getting a special program from Terry would help the situation. The JB3 and the procede will both adjust boost accordingly based on the IAT data it recieves so I do feel that the results are valid.

Jp, that's exactly what I did here. Same car, same tune, same dyno, hell nearly exactly the same evironmental conditions. The only differences were the FMIC and the changes the JB3 made on it's own based on the data it gathers.
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      09-09-2009, 11:33 AM   #84
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Its all good guys, I don't think anyone was trying to start anything and I can respect Former's frustration. He just wants to buy the best part for his car. I think as more testing is done it will be very conclusive that as far as IC's go this is the best bolt on unit you can buy

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      09-09-2009, 12:02 PM   #85
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I think Former Boosted IS is all "STETT'd out" and that is a good FMIC as well with large power capabilities as advertised. I respect his knowledge and opinions and we all know he isn't trying to be an ass or anything. He does EXTENSIVE research for his own modifications and he is just a "detective" personality which requires more data that you can imagine. I hope people take his posts as a search for knowledge and data and not just another troll being counter-productive
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      09-09-2009, 12:15 PM   #86
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I wish that I had before and after logs on the dyno. It was my plan, but the dynos were kind of spur of the moment events and I didn't have my laptop with me unfortunately. I'm real busy with work right now, but I do plan on having some logs from a few long pulls in the near future.
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      09-09-2009, 01:41 PM   #87
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Looks like they do - post #113 in this thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=291585&page=6

[quote=A418t81;5835951]AMS is not advertising those gains, and neither am I. /QUOTE]
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      09-09-2009, 01:45 PM   #88
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2007 E92 335  [4.83]
I was one of the first people outside of AMS to run their Intercooler. I gained 11 whp on stock tune - back to back runs, immediately after installation with no time for ECU adaptation. I am not surprised to see much higher gains on higher boosted cars.

The IC is for real, AMS puts a ton of engineering and R&D into their products, they are very well respected and a proven company (you should see their wall of awards, they have pretty much won every EVO shootout there is - ha ha) and we are very lucky that they have branched out to the BMW scene

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