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      09-07-2009, 04:46 PM   #1
cstavaru
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Manual vs. Automatic gearbox - with videos

Ok, so seeing the GIAC vs. JB3 video comparisons that Mr. 5 thankfully posted, my conclusion is that the AT is significantly slower compared to the manual gearbox. I mean, it takes JB3 Map 5 to beat the GIAC with the automatic gearbox, but it only takes Map 3 to beat it with the manual ? Also, look how the manual gearbox gets a big jump on the automatic every time (min. 2.11 on the video). Is that the torque converter action ? So, it seems from the videos that the automatic is significantly slower or is there something wrong in these videos ?

Manual vs. Automatic (look at 2.11 and 2:32):

[u2b]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2eY0Op8HvzA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2eY0Op8HvzA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/u2b]

Manual vs. Manual (look at 1.27 and 2.25):

[u2b]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lvmKvwrly9I&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lvmKvwrly9I&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/u2b]

Last edited by cstavaru; 09-07-2009 at 05:02 PM.
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      09-07-2009, 04:55 PM   #2
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      09-07-2009, 05:20 PM   #3
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now only if dragtimes.com could confirm this... but it doesn't
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      09-07-2009, 05:33 PM   #4
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+1... exactly, so sad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeOne View Post
now only if dragtimes.com could confirm this... but it doesn't
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      09-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #5
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You should check the starting rpms for both cars.
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      09-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #6
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The 6MT is hard to drive fast. Too much margin for error. With the 6AT, all you REALLY need to worry about for consistent runs is the launch.

Even an awesome 6MT driver with equal mods to a 6AT would lose almost every time, by about 1-2 car lengths.
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      09-07-2009, 05:50 PM   #7
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...?

Theres that split second where you shift. I hold my foot to the floor. Problem solved. 6AT is faster.
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      09-07-2009, 06:10 PM   #8
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Here's what I think...
Manuals shoot out much quicker at first but the autos catch up because their shifts are so fast. IMO, an auto is definitely quicker.
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      09-07-2009, 06:15 PM   #9
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oh noes, not this
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      09-07-2009, 06:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Here's what I think...
Manuals shoot out much quicker at first but the autos catch up because their shifts are so fast. IMO, an auto is definitely quicker.
even on highway runs you can "cheat" a little by quickstepping the clutch before start, having boost building at the start rather than starting from scratch... but the 6AT has the better gearing and shifts faster than 99% of MT drivers out there. One can argue the MT has less drivetrain loss, but the AT shifts faster, loses less boost between those shifts and has better gearing. Sometimes I wish I had a 6AT but rowing a standard gearbox on the open road is something you simply can't replicate with a 6AT, no matter how good the "manual shift" mode is.

I've driven the 6AT on a 335i sedan, so I know what it's capable of.
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      09-07-2009, 06:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
...?

Theres that split second where you shift. I hold my foot to the floor. Problem solved. 6AT is faster.
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      09-07-2009, 06:21 PM   #12
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Where can I read some documentation about how the step trans works? Id like to know what makes it unique compared to other autos since most dont jumble the step in with normal slushboxes.
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      09-07-2009, 06:49 PM   #13
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autos are faster at the moment, but with shiv's new 6MT firmware coming out, we'll see who has the last laugh
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      09-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #14
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Until a flash or something comes out that rids the 6MT of the retarded amount of torque management on the shift that BMW has programmed into the ECU, the autos will be faster.
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      09-07-2009, 07:56 PM   #15
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I'm going to quote myself from an earlier thread b/c I dont think I can retype this again:

Are we really debating this?

If theres a debate, just consider the business implication. BMW released the 335 with two transmission options at first, AT and MT. The vehicle is sold with the same performance specs, and advertised with the same "track" specs. When you look at the gearing, and you see that the AT has an "advantage" in terms of the final drive ratio, the only conclusion can be that BMW had to do this to compensate for some losses, otherwise they would both be the same if it was advantageous. They arent going to sell you the AT and MT model, claim the same performance specs, and then purposely build the AT to be a faster model. Certainly, the AT has a more acceleration friendly gearing, but this isnt because BMW intended the AT to be a "Faster" model, its because they changed the gearing so both the AT and MT model would be comparable in a battery of tests. I agree, in some tests, the AT would be ever so marginally quicker, and in others, the MT would be ever so marginally quicker. In the end, the comparison is a total one, and the only conclusion is that they are both just as quick as each other and anyone telling you otherwise is only looking at one test, and not the full variety.

0-60, 5-60, 1/4 mile, 30-50, etc...these are all figures that must be taken into account, and I am positive, if you were to take a statistical sampling, in a controlled environment (somehow), you would find that both the AT and MT come out to be roughly the same, with each transmission having an advantage in various tests situation dependent.

So to conclude this question, MT has always been more fun, more direct, less drivetrain loss, AT will make a quicker shift (in terms of time to get into the next gear), but that doesnt mean its making a better, or more properly timed/anticipated shift than someone actually doing it themself looking @ the road condition and the full breadth of your maneuver.

what im trying to say in shorthand is...I am positive that if you take AT vs MT, youre going to find that on this particular vehicle, they are roughly equal, because BMW made it so on purpose, and the difference in gearing is evidence of them attempting to make AT=MT in terms of overall performance.

phew, lots of typing
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      09-07-2009, 08:38 PM   #16
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auto is faster in a straight line, end of story.
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      09-07-2009, 08:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
auto is faster in a straight line, end of story.
it depends what speed you start that straight line pull from
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      09-07-2009, 09:02 PM   #18
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Documentation on the steptronic please. I did a search but found nothing specific. Or at least an overview of how its different then the regular autos.
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      09-07-2009, 09:21 PM   #19
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Stock for stock, the 6MT and the 6AT are very similar in terms of straight line performance. This is assuming decent driving with the 6MT of course. The problem occurs with tuned cars when 6MTs suffer from moderate to severe throttle lag between shifts. The more boost, the more lag. I'd predict that once this problem is solved, the 6MT, tuned or untuned, will be just as quick as the 6AT.

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      09-07-2009, 09:28 PM   #20
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what did the m3 have done to it?
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      09-07-2009, 09:29 PM   #21
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The problem is also - that alot of thee tunes are designed with what 85% + of the n54 community has - an AT.

Even some of the tuners drive an AT. Shiv I think has a manual..

I have an MT myself... I couldnt pull the trigger on the auto. I had a choice.. Almost same exact car, same price. Both Msports... Both black, etc... Both had same option list, except mine didnt have sat radio.

I chose the manual.. Becasue I am a driver... I prefer manual.
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      09-07-2009, 09:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vudoo4u2 View Post
it depends what speed you start that straight line pull from
lol....yeah well obviously
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