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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > GIAC---->stock--->REVII PROcede



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      09-10-2009, 12:23 AM   #1
joec500
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GIAC---->stock--->REVII PROcede

So a quick background on myself. I am just a car enthusiast that works a normal 9-5 job and loves that feeling of instant torque in turbo charged cars.

With that said, I have gone from the REVII to Stock, while waiting for the release of the GIAC Flash. After 2 weeks of driving stock I finally had a chance to get to DynoSpot Racing in San Jose to get my Flash. Dick's service was amazing and always very friendly. After a few hours I was on my way with my GIAC loaded and I couldn't be happier with the fact I would never have to open my ECU box again. Overall I thought this tune was smoother than my REVII.

After a week of driving with this Flash I dyno tested the flash and it showed why the flash felt so smooth as it applies TQ a bit more conservatively vs the REVII and the overall power was in line with a tune pushing 13-14PSI. Performance wise it was not huge leaps over what is already on the market.

Then shortly after my dyno runs, I had a failed o2 Sensor causing my car to mis fire so badly I was forced to limp my car to my local indy BMW shop in San Francisco, where I had to pay $400 for parts and labor to replace that sensor (labor is super pricey here in the city) . My nearest GIAC dealer is 50 miles from my house so I could not bring my car there to flash to stock to bring it to the dealer. Also this failure is not tuned related so please refrain from the "pay to play" comments.

After this I realized that having a flash did not fit my lifestyle (I work 9-5 and cannot easily make it to my GIAC dealer to flash back to stock on top of paying $75 every time)

I took GIAC's 30 day refund policy and was on my way.

So after driving a tuned car, it's much too hard to drive a stock car again

So I picked up another PROcede from Vishnu tuning with the latest maps and firmware...

So today I had the GIAC tune then flashed back to stock and installed my REVII so I had a chance to drive all three states of my car within 2 hours.

Essentially Back to back, the procede feels stronger in the low end as the TQ curve is steeper than the GIAC, this neither better nor worst, it's just I like that type of power application.

Stomping the gas pedal in 3rd at higher RPM's, I did not feel the oscillation that the GIAC tune had. Not a big deal, but something worth noting.

Overall the PROcede felt stronger in terms of power output, but I will be dyno'ing my car with PROcede in the upcoming weeks and will keep everyone posted.

Overall I had nothing but great service from GIAC and Dynospot, it's just that the PROcede fit my tuning needs and lifestyle better than the GIAC.

I think GIAC is a great product with upstanding and VERY helpful people who support their tunes.

For now the PROcede fits my bill better and Shiv has always been helpful both in terms of product support and being helpful as a fellow enthusiast.

All this competition is great and I am happy we have so many choices.

my .2 cents

Last edited by joec500; 09-10-2009 at 01:24 AM.
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      09-10-2009, 04:54 AM   #2
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Nice review! Thanks!
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      09-10-2009, 07:20 AM   #3
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great impartial review. thank you
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      09-10-2009, 07:24 AM   #4
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Nice review, seems like the PROcede is a good fit for your needs.
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      09-10-2009, 08:39 AM   #5
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Nice review.

I think a lot of people shy away from the flashes just because it's a bitch to clear for service, even when you have a tuning shop that will do it for free every time. I know that was my case. I don't care if I have to head to the shop to get the tune re-flashed, but I need a handheld to flip to the stock flash on a whim.
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      09-10-2009, 09:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Nice review.

I think a lot of people shy away from the flashes just because it's a bitch to clear for service, even when you have a tuning shop that will do it for free every time. I know that was my case. I don't care if I have to head to the shop to get the tune re-flashed, but I need a handheld to flip to the stock flash on a whim.
+1 at least "stock like" settings
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      09-10-2009, 09:50 AM   #7
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good review! seems like most just try to push whatever tune they bought (or happen to be running now). Good job on fairness.

Does anybody know if it is possible on ECU flashes to have the software on a personal laptop and do the flash yourself before dealer trips? Or do the tuners not want that as it may diminish revenue??
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      09-10-2009, 10:49 AM   #8
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Cool review. I like the flash even if its not as fast as a piggy, but until I can do the flashes myself I will wait.
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      09-10-2009, 10:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptwob311 View Post
Does anybody know if it is possible on ECU flashes to have the software on a personal laptop and do the flash yourself before dealer trips? Or do the tuners not want that as it may diminish revenue??
As far as I know, no company has given us this ability.. yet. GIAC will be doing some sort of switching tool soon i believe, but its not exactly the same.
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      09-10-2009, 11:13 AM   #10
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I am essentially in the same EXACT boat as the OP. I live in SF, dynospot is my local shop, and I am facing the same dilemma - I prefer the idea of a flash and have had GIAC on past Audi's, however a trip to the Giac dealer would be a full day affair for me (if my car is running) so a bad fuel pump or some other issue could really hit me in the pocket book if I show up at the dealer with the flash loaded. A hand held map switcher would be a game changer but as of right now - not available
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      09-10-2009, 12:29 PM   #11
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didnt they say ....

IIRC,

GIAC claims the flash is invisible to the normal dealer diagnostics ..
I think they also said that the checksums are corrected and the flashcounter is reset. So this would result in at the least -- getting flash removed and the car returned back to stock (if there is a need to) -- and then returning to the GIAC dealer to reinstall the flash .. am i wrong?

but i guess no one wants to be the first so see if its truly invisible -- any volunteers (j/k)
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      09-10-2009, 12:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
IIRC,

GIAC claims the flash is invisible to the normal dealer diagnostics ..
I think they also said that the checksums are corrected and the flashcounter is reset. So this would result in at the least -- getting flash removed and the car returned back to stock (if there is a need to) -- and then returning to the GIAC dealer to reinstall the flash .. am i wrong?

but i guess no one wants to be the first so see if its truly invisible -- any volunteers (j/k)
I was not as concerned with what BMW DIAG can see, but if the tech decides to go for a "road test" he will know pretty quickly the car has something type of flash.

That was my concern.
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      09-10-2009, 12:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
I was not as concerned with what BMW DIAG can see, but if the tech decides to go for a "road test" he will know pretty quickly the car has something type of flash.

That was my concern.
maybe I am just a risk taker... but I don't see why a BMW dealership would care to "bust" you anyway. If the flash is invisible to diagnostics (aka BMW NA can't see it via FASTA or whatever) then the dealer would care less. I mean the service department makes money on working on cars. BMW pays them for warranty work and it is fast and reliable money. I know some dealerships that prefer warranty work over billable work for that exact reason. If they hassle me I will just go to a different dealer, therefore they lose a customer. I don't think losing customers is in their best interest. Plus I don't think the test drive consists of a drag race... probably more like a drive around the block at 1/2 throttle or something (with slow 6MT shifts).
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      09-10-2009, 12:43 PM   #14
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Great review! Flash would definitely be better once they have a switching tool.
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      09-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
My nearest GIAC dealer is 50 miles from my house so I could not bring my car there to flash to stock to bring it to the dealer.
Quote:
After this I realized that having a flash did not fit my lifestyle (I work 9-5 and cannot easily make it to my GIAC dealer to flash back to stock on top of paying $75 every time)
+1 my dealer is way too far for me to drive to if the need arose. Plus I am a control freak, "if you want something done right do it yourself" so I love the ability to take out the tune when I want as well as the ability to monitor, log, and adjust on my laptop whenever I feel like it. But for those that want to "set it & forget it" I bet the GIAC would be the way to go

Great review btw...
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      09-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #16
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But for those that want to "set it & forget it" I bet the GIAC would be the way to go
oh wow, that JUST happened!
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      09-10-2009, 01:14 PM   #17
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Great review! Flash would definitely be better once they have a switching tool.
Not if performance is a priority.
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      09-10-2009, 01:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
IIRC,

GIAC claims the flash is invisible to the normal dealer diagnostics ..
I think they also said that the checksums are corrected and the flashcounter is reset. So this would result in at the least -- getting flash removed and the car returned back to stock (if there is a need to) -- and then returning to the GIAC dealer to reinstall the flash .. am i wrong?

but i guess no one wants to be the first so see if its truly invisible -- any volunteers (j/k)
Any tune can detected if the DME was removed and sent to BMW.

As per what equipment your local dealer has - GIAC is invisible to their diagnostic equipment. For those that want an additional level of security - we can also flash the computer back to stock before your dealer visit.
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      09-10-2009, 01:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Any tune can detected if the DME was removed and sent to BMW.
As per what equipment your local dealer has - GIAC is invisible to their diagnostic equipment. For those that want an additional level of security - we can also flash the computer back to stock before your dealer visit.
my understanding of the new ISTA/P system, the removal of the DME is no longer a requirement -- a full data dump is performed on the car when connected to the workshop device -- so retrieval is only required from the ISIS server. but i could be completely wrong too.. second-hand information is not reliable
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      09-10-2009, 01:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Not if performance is a priority.
That comment is a bit misleading IMO. In the flash vs. piggy debate performance is due solely to the limits the tuner is willing to push. A flash should have every paramater available to tune that is available to the piggy and more...even with canbus integration. Because one tuner doesn't push as hard as the other does not mean a flash or a piggy is better, it's just that the tuner in question decided to be more conservative.

If I am incorrect please steer me in the right direction! BTW this is not a bash. I'm looking at a x35 in Nov 2010 and i'm a leaning towards the procede. I'm tinkerer at heart meaning the updates and some of the features like lean burn cruise really appeal to me.
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      09-10-2009, 01:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
my understanding of the new ISTA/P system, the removal of the DME is no longer a requirement -- a full data dump is performed on the car when connected to the workshop device -- so retrieval is only required from the ISIS server. but i could be completely wrong too.. second-hand information is not reliable
Correct, it'll be a while before all the dealers are even upgraded to this system as it is relatively new.

While the GIAC flash tunes are aggressive, they err on the side of caution to prevent any type catastrophic failure. Note there will have to be probable cause to read the DME in the first place as most routing service checks should fly under the radar.
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      09-10-2009, 08:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
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maybe I am just a risk taker... but I don't see why a BMW dealership would care to "bust" you anyway. If the flash is invisible to diagnostics (aka BMW NA can't see it via FASTA or whatever) then the dealer would care less. I mean the service department makes money on working on cars. BMW pays them for warranty work and it is fast and reliable money. I know some dealerships that prefer warranty work over billable work for that exact reason. If they hassle me I will just go to a different dealer, therefore they lose a customer. I don't think losing customers is in their best interest. Plus I don't think the test drive consists of a drag race... probably more like a drive around the block at 1/2 throttle or something (with slow 6MT shifts).
I believe the reason is that BMW, like any manufacturer, offers a lower reimbursement rate for the work done on warranty than the dealer charges people who are not covered by warranty. Likely dealerships, as part of their franchise agreements are required to accept this rate. This means there is a significant profit margin to be had on out of warranty and why so many dealers (BMW and others) look for any reason to not honor the warranty. If they got paid the same regardless, they would have no reason to harass their customers and create bad dealership experiences. Dealerships' actions are always designed to maximize profit.
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