E90Post
 


VIBE Motorsports
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > ECU Tuning Software or piggyback ?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-16-2009, 01:48 PM   #1
e.n335
Moderator
e.n335's Avatar
Austria
98
Rep
4,480
Posts

 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

iTrader: (0)

ECU Tuning Software or piggyback ?

Hello everybody,

I have not participated on this forum recently.

What I find after approx. 1 year ist that more ECU-flashes are available, no serious Turbo Upgrade exists and ECU-flashes seem to be more stable than piggybacks ( virtually no limp modes ). Mr. 5 did a lot of testing, me too. The result has been flashing the ECU unit in both cases.

Any thoughts ?

Cheers,
Eugen
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 01:57 PM   #2
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
326
Rep
10,621
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
There's a LOT happening in the tune market right now, GIAC is close to releasing their Stage 2 flash. The piggybacks are making some new discoveries on their own as well.

Stage 2 info will be posted as soon as development is completed.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #3
MuchMoore
Colonel
MuchMoore's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
2,318
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CenFla

iTrader: (28)

Send a message via AIM to MuchMoore
Personally I would lean towards a piggy back as it can be removed if the car needs to see the dealer. The flashes look like a great option (power, smoothness), but they can't be.
__________________
| Andrew | M Technik | BMW Performance | BBS | Forge | V1 | LUX | Bilstein | Precision-Sport |

Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 01:59 PM   #4
RiXst3r
RiXst3r's Avatar
153
Rep
6,509
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to RiXst3r
First off... this is a flame war waiting to happen... lol Hopefully it can stay on track.

Everyone has their opinion, but the FACT is that the flashes have yet to reach the power levels of the piggies, or match them in terms of features... of course, the key word is YET...

There are several new flashes on the market, but I have yet to see a single one of these flashes beat out a piggy in a head to head match on power, features, or the ability to install and remove your tune AT HOME.

My 2c... Yes I sell and run the PROcede, but not because of any kind of tuner loyalty, but rather because of the reasons I listed above.

-Rick
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:00 PM   #5
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Eh... ASR's 500+whp bolt-on turbo upgrade not serious enough?
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:04 PM   #6
Bagelfast
Lieutenant Colonel
Bagelfast's Avatar
40
Rep
1,537
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Piggys have come a LONG way since last year. They arent many limp modes reported, power is smoother, more consistent, and just overall more fined tuned than they use to be. Flashes are trying, but like mentioned there power isnt up to piggys yet.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:09 PM   #7
e.n335
Moderator
e.n335's Avatar
Austria
98
Rep
4,480
Posts

 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Eh... ASR's 500+whp bolt-on turbo upgrade not serious enough?
Hi Shiv, my old friend

I have not been aware about this option. I run my tune since the last Procede Version I owned. Without ANY issues. I'd love to review your most current product since I am back to stock since a few days, my turbos are replaced currently because of wastegate wrattling ( warranty ) , which has nothing to do with any tune.

Cheers,
Eugen
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:14 PM   #8
jippii ensio
Major
13
Rep
1,227
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Hello everybody,

I have not participated on this forum recently.

What I find after approx. 1 year ist that more ECU-flashes are available, no serious Turbo Upgrade exists and ECU-flashes seem to be more stable than piggybacks ( virtually no limp modes ). Mr. 5 did a lot of testing, me too. The result has been flashing the ECU unit in both cases.

Any thoughts ?

Cheers,
Eugen
Yes though piggies are not that unstable either. How long have you had your flash tune? Happy with it?

There is only one decent road going N54 with upgraded turbos in the whole US... Hopefully at least one more next year
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:24 PM   #9
e.n335
Moderator
e.n335's Avatar
Austria
98
Rep
4,480
Posts

 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Yes though piggies are not that unstable either. How long have you had your flash tune? Happy with it?

There is only one decent road going N54 with upgraded turbos in the whole US... Hopefully at least one more next year
Yeah, I'm happy with it. I put out 403 HP and 560 NM ( crank ) which seem to be a fair push without stressing any components. Tomorrow I'll get my car back. I can reinstall my upgraded version of the ECU-flash without any costs, however I have the possibility to get an impression about current 335i piggyback technology.

Cheers,
Eugen
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:28 PM   #10
jpsimon
Team Zissou
jpsimon's Avatar
United_States
164
Rep
9,017
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 STi
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Definitely pick up a rev2 canbus procede. I think you're mind will be blown compared to when you last had a procede. There have been huge developments since then
__________________
2015 STi / 335xi (solid)
www.datazap.me - fast, free, interactive data log viewing

Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:33 PM   #11
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
51
Rep
3,583
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

Patience, there is a lot going on and the N54 is a new platform so it's just a matter of time.. we got the ASR upgrade already, HPF working on a single turbo upgrade + manifold, GTPRO upgrade, RD Sports upgrade, numerous flashes other than Dinan like LET and GIAC, RPI working on a flash too...
__________________

2008 E90 335
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #12
shifterboy45
Major
shifterboy45's Avatar
14
Rep
1,180
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North by Northwest

iTrader: (0)

schools of thought ..

from all that ive read and researched this is the whole point distilled in few words as possible. (I am no expert in this area so please -- take it or leave it as you will)

the guy that will purchase a piggy will do so for the feature set (datalogging, map switching, code clearing). and a good lot of those guys like to tinker with their cars and want to be involved the "process" -- this is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference

the guy that gets a flash is a set it and forget it guy -- a good level of performance is adequate and he not looking the have the fastest car on the block - (or maybe not) .. but the comfort of not having to worry about is there something loose under the hood.. everything is in the ECU -- it works -- leave it alone... this too, is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference..

as for the power levels -- piggys have had a lot more exposure in the market, making reliable power and sometimes way more .. since flashes rely on the ECU as an "native" environment, building other features that interface to a secondary processor are not a option -- currently -- who knows what the future holds ? So to say will flashes make more or less horsepower than piggys -- or will the piggys beat out the flashes with integrated features -- why dont we wait awhile and see what really goes on ...

my $.02
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:50 PM   #13
jippii ensio
Major
13
Rep
1,227
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
from all that ive read and researched this is the whole point distilled in few words as possible. (I am no expert in this area so please -- take it or leave it as you will)

the guy that will purchase a piggy will do so for the feature set (datalogging, map switching, code clearing). and a good lot of those guys like to tinker with their cars and want to be involved the "process" -- this is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference

the guy that gets a flash is a set it and forget it guy -- a good level of performance is adequate and he not looking the have the fastest car on the block - (or maybe not) .. but the comfort of not having to worry about is there something loose under the hood.. everything is in the ECU -- it works -- leave it alone... this too, is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference..

as for the power levels -- piggys have had a lot more exposure in the market, making reliable power and sometimes way more .. since flashes rely on the ECU as an "native" environment, building other features that interface to a secondary processor are not a option -- currently -- who knows what the future holds ? So to say will flashes make more or less horsepower than piggys -- or will the piggys beat out the flashes with integrated features -- why dont we wait awhile and see what really goes on ...

my $.02
Well put. I bet this guy was hanging on the forums at his piggie times, but after installing the flash he got a life and enjoyed it leaving the forum nerds to the never ending continuous map downloading hooked into the forum and spending more time with their computers than with their cars
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:56 PM   #14
Glowin
Captain
Glowin's Avatar
United_States
15
Rep
922
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Everyone has their opinion, but the FACT is that the flashes have yet to reach the power levels of the piggies, or match them in terms of features... of course, the key word is YET...

There are several new flashes on the market, but I have yet to see a single one of these flashes beat out a piggy in a head to head match on power, features, or the ability to install and remove your tune AT HOME.

-Rick
I wonder if they have intentionally not wanted to increase power more than they already have, because of safety / longevity concerns, and not simply because they can't. I'd love to hear from GIAC on this.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 02:56 PM   #15
roadkillrob
Brigadier General
United_States
58
Rep
3,911
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335Cic, 2011 X5 35i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Eh... ASR's 500+whp bolt-on turbo upgrade not serious enough?
What is going on with ASR these days anyway - I haven't seen a track run posted since they ran a somewhat disappointing 12.7 at 119?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...bos_686709.htm
__________________

2008 E93 335i, GIAC Stage 2, HPF IC, Injen Intake, Defective AR Design DP's with useless cats
2014 X3 35i JB Stage 1
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 03:02 PM   #16
scalbert
Major General
scalbert's Avatar
78
Rep
5,710
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

iTrader: (7)

Hello Eugen, I was wondering where you had been.

I think you would find the current piggies have matured quite well.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 03:16 PM   #17
e.n335
Moderator
e.n335's Avatar
Austria
98
Rep
4,480
Posts

 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Hello Eugen, I was wondering where you had been.

I think you would find the current piggies have matured quite well.
Thanks, scalbert.

I appreciate your feedback .

Cheers,
Eugen
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 03:54 PM   #18
luca335i
Major
luca335i's Avatar
20
Rep
1,193
Posts

 
Drives: 335I Sedan
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Unknown

iTrader: (3)

Try the new 1.4 jb3 eugen. It's a beast.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 04:12 PM   #19
mwahlert
Lieutenant Colonel
mwahlert's Avatar
29
Rep
1,556
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Durham, NC

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Eh... ASR's 500+whp bolt-on turbo upgrade not serious enough?
has anyone outside of asr actually purchased this kit yet?
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #20
munters
Captain
munters's Avatar
8
Rep
675
Posts

 
Drives: E91 335XI AT Dakota Black M
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

Hello Eugen
We could meet once to compare the two (not powerwise). As you know I've the same idea as you about power/smoothyness.
__________________
59 Corvette, 72 240Z, 73 Espada, ZXR
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2009, 07:00 PM   #21
Choolgooz
Lieutenant
Choolgooz's Avatar
4
Rep
450
Posts

 
Drives: 08 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

You sound like a neutral voice. Maybe you can get a RevII from Shiv and Jb1.4 from Terry and do a comparison like this thread.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302248
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2009, 01:23 AM   #22
bigpuna
Private
0
Rep
79
Posts

 
Drives: Z4 35i / E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shifterboy45 View Post
from all that ive read and researched this is the whole point distilled in few words as possible. (I am no expert in this area so please -- take it or leave it as you will)

the guy that will purchase a piggy will do so for the feature set (datalogging, map switching, code clearing). and a good lot of those guys like to tinker with their cars and want to be involved the "process" -- this is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference

the guy that gets a flash is a set it and forget it guy -- a good level of performance is adequate and he not looking the have the fastest car on the block - (or maybe not) .. but the comfort of not having to worry about is there something loose under the hood.. everything is in the ECU -- it works -- leave it alone... this too, is not a bad thing or a good thing -- just preference..

as for the power levels -- piggys have had a lot more exposure in the market, making reliable power and sometimes way more .. since flashes rely on the ECU as an "native" environment, building other features that interface to a secondary processor are not a option -- currently -- who knows what the future holds ? So to say will flashes make more or less horsepower than piggys -- or will the piggys beat out the flashes with integrated features -- why dont we wait awhile and see what really goes on ...

my $.02
+1

I think there is a customer for both products depending on what they want. I dont like having to mess with updates and pulling products in and out of my car and I also dont trust piggys so I went with a flash. On the other hand I have a good friend who thinks he is a tuner and likes to play with different maps all the time and he loves the flexibility of his piggy.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:40 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST