[MissNatalie]

So I'm looking to purchase my first BMW. I've been looking for a car for about 4-5 months now and I'm feeling positive about this particular car.
However, I would like some advice from the "pro's" here at E90 before I do anything.

I'm currently looking at an '07 E92 335i.
Ive uploaded a picture showing the information on the car:



There are all the options, asking price, and mileage on the car.
The car is well-optioned and the mileage is perfect (for me) in helping me get a decent price.

Given this information, how would I go about discovering a fair price for this vehicle?
I have done the typical KBB, NADA, and Edmunds pricing appraisals and they all show up to be pretty on par with what the dealer is asking for.
However, like everyone knows, there is negotiating room in the price.

So here are a few question I have:
-How can I find a fair price for this car? How can I find out what the dealer paid for it? How much should I offer for this vehicle?
-What should I look for on the car/under the hood? I understand different manufacturing months are built slightly different (for example the oil cooler).
-How can I get to the vehicles service records? I understand a detailed list of service records are required in order for a used car to become certified. What should I look for?
-Any other advice?

Please keep in mind I'm in Southern California (which helps explain prices).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

(And, for the record, I'm using my girlfriends account to post this. However I'm a long time lurker of the forum.)

[jopa489]

I'd start by offering them a few grand less and see what reaction you get. There's always some wiggle room.

Other things you should note:

Oil cooler - the car would need to have both ZSP (sport package) and the optional 19" wheels for it to have the oil cooler factory installed. Based on this, that car probably doesn't have one. However, if you're not tracking the car, it's no problem. Here's what your RF wheel well would look like if it has the cooler, you can check this specific car to be sure:




High Pressure Fuel Pump - commonly known around here as HPFP, is a weak point with the 335. BMW extended the warranty on this to 100k, so you shouldn't be concerned. Just something to note, as there's a good chance it will fail at some point (if it hasn't already on that car).

Extended warranty/extended maintenance - your CA will probably discuss these with you. It may be wise to read up on the differences and costs, and see which (if either) you want to get.

Service records - I'm assuming the car is CPO? If so, the dealer will be able to pull the records. Just ask. Sometimes they try to charge you, but I think you should be entitled to see what's been done on the car before buying it. If you make that clear to them, they shouldn't have a problem giving you a copy of all the records.

[JayKay335i]

You should be able to find some sub 20k and even some sub 10k cars for around that price.

[MissNatalie]

jopa489, when you say a "few grand less," how few are we talking?
I was thinking 30-ish because I figure there's no loss in low-balling and its worth a shot.
However, I don't want to sound like a jerk who doesn't know what he's talking about.

I will have another look for the oil cooler now that I know what to look for. I don't plan to track the car, but I do plan to do a few basic performance mods (tune, intake, exhaust, etc.).
Would you consider the lack of an oil cool to be a deal-breaker given my plans for the car? This will be my daily-driver.

Edit: Heres a (bad) picture of the car. I do believe these are 19" wheels. I'm not sure if you can tell if the car has an oil cooler or not just by this picture.
I will have to confirm in person when next I see the car.




Thank you very much jopa489, very informative post.


JayKay335i, where would I begin to look for such cars? I've only been scouring the readily available used car listing sites such as AutoTrader, Cars.com, etc.
I'm having a hard time finding what I want in a vehicle in a sub-30k dollar car, which would be my ideal.
I'm not as concerned with mileage as long as the car is certified; which I believe is a sub-50k mile car. And I know mileage will give me some leverage on the price.

But I do notice your not from California. I'm not sure if you realize (and I don't mean to offend) but car prices here are sky high here compared to other states, which really sucks...

More opinions/advice would be great!

[jopa489]

Originally Posted by MissNatalie

jopa489, when you say a "few grand less," how few are we talking?
I was thinking 30-ish because I figure there's no loss in low-balling and its worth a shot.
However, I don't want to sound like a jerk who doesn't know what he's talking about.

I will have another look for the oil cooler now that I know what to look for. I don't plan to track the car, but I do plan to do a few basic performance mods (tune, intake, exhaust, etc.).
Would you consider the lack of an oil cool to be a deal-breaker given my plans for the car? This will be my daily-driver.

Thank you very much jopa489, very informative post.

Sorry, I should have been more specific but I was thinking low 30s. Maybe 30-31? Just an estimate, not sure how the market is in CA heh.

Lack of an oil cooler won't effect your planned mods, so certainly not a deal breaker. It can't hurt to have one, but it's only required if you're driving the car very hard for extended periods of time. Track days, AutoX, etc. For a DD (even with some light mods), you shouldn't have any oil temperature problems.

[bsp8181]

I just spent a significant amount of time searching socal for a suitable 335i, so I hope that I can share some insights. First, I think $35k for that many miles is way too much. I negotiated Southbay BMW down to $32k on a loaded CPO vehicle with 27K miles. For 40k miles, I'd be looking to get down to well under $30k.

For comparison, I just picked up a 335i Sedan with 27k miles in near mint condition (Not Certified) for $28.5.

In terms of service history, the dealership can provide that. If they won't, you can try Evan at Tisher BMW. You should also run a Carfax and Autocheck report. If you send me the VIN, I can run the Autocheck report for you.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by MissNatalie

So I'm looking to purchase my first BMW. I've been looking for a car for about 4-5 months now and I'm feeling positive about this particular car.
However, I would like some advice from the "pro's" here at E90 before I do anything.

I'm currently looking at an '07 E92 335i.
Ive uploaded a picture showing the information on the car:



There are all the options, asking price, and mileage on the car.
The car is well-optioned and the mileage is perfect (for me) in helping me get a decent price.

Given this information, how would I go about discovering a fair price for this vehicle?
I have done the typical KBB, NADA, and Edmunds pricing appraisals and they all show up to be pretty on par with what the dealer is asking for.
However, like everyone knows, there is negotiating room in the price.

So here are a few question I have:
-How can I find a fair price for this car? How can I find out what the dealer paid for it? How much should I offer for this vehicle?
-What should I look for on the car/under the hood? I understand different manufacturing months are built slightly different (for example the oil cooler).
-How can I get to the vehicles service records? I understand a detailed list of service records are required in order for a used car to become certified. What should I look for?
-Any other advice?

Please keep in mind I'm in Southern California (which helps explain prices).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

(And, for the record, I'm using my girlfriends account to post this. However I'm a long time lurker of the forum.)

[MissNatalie]

While I agree that the price is high given the mileage, how do I get that through the dealers head?
Is there a way I can see how much the dealer owns the car for?

If I remember correctly, during my "research" here at E90, I thought I came across a thread where someone had access to current dealer invoice prices.
It was like a sheet showing how much each option on the car was worth at today's point in time.

However I cannot find the thread now... I'm not sure if it would even benefit me.

So this raises the question: Instead of them telling me how much they think the car is worth, how can I go about proving to the them what the car is worth?

Thanks for the replies.
And bsp8181, I sent you a PM regarding the AutoCheck.

[spdybimmr]

wow that seems pretty high...i just picked up my cpo'd car from bmw bakersfield - a 335i coupe, auto, loaded with 14k miles for 37000. tell them to pull an mmr for you, thats mannheim market report. that will tell you what that car is going through the auctions for and likely around what they paid for the car.

[bsp8181]

+1

I had a friend pull a Manheim Market Report for a 2007 e90 with 27k miles. A few weeks back they were selling at auction for $26.5-28k. Auction values are the best gauge of pricing. Once you figure out what the Manheim number is, you need to add a reasonable margin for the dealer and the cost of the CPO. For me, I personally value CPO at $1500 above other similar condition vehicles, but that's just me.

BTW, here's the autocheck for the vehicle in question.

Originally Posted by spdybimmr

wow that seems pretty high...i just picked up my cpo'd car from bmw bakersfield - a 335i coupe, auto, loaded with 14k miles for 37000. tell them to pull an mmr for you, thats mannheim market report. that will tell you what that car is going through the auctions for and likely around what they paid for the car.

[Darkcyd_Turbo]

I picked up my CPO in April of this year:

2008 e92 335xi Montego Blue
Sport Package
Cold Weather Package
Navigation
Comfort Access
PDC
Manual Trans.
17,500 Miles on Odometer

Original Sticker was $39.5K
Picked up the car for a little under $36K

So $35K for something with 40K in miles should easily go for $28.5K-$30K...

[Darkcyd_Turbo]

Originally Posted by jopa489

Oil cooler - the car would need to have both ZSP (sport package) and the optional 19" wheels for it to have the oil cooler factory installed. Based on this, that car probably doesn't have one. However, if you're not tracking the car, it's no problem. Here's what your RF wheel well would look like if it has the cooler, you can check this specific car to be sure:

Wrong...sticker says car is equipped with ZSP. Whether it has an oil cooler or not is going to be dependent on the build date for the 2007's. Do a quick to find out when they fitted the '07s with the oil cooler. And it's 18" wheels not 19"s.

[Blk07335i]

I think all the e92's came with oil coolers. Isn't that correct? It looks like nice car, I'd offer 32K and walk away. Let them think about it for a few days. If it doesn't work out there are plenty of other cars out there.

[MissNatalie]

Thanks for all the replies.
I have taken another look at the car today. It does not have the oil cooler, which isn't a big deal to me given my plans for the car.

So I assume the next step would be to get a Manheim Market Report.
If I understand correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), this report will tell me what similar vehicles are going for at the dealer auctions and that will be a good basis to judge approximately how much the dealer owns the car for.

Now my next question, naturally, is where can I get a Manheim Market Report?
It appears a dealer license is required to login to their website.
Will the dealer provide me with the report upon request? I'm doubting this because it seems like this would reveal the dealer markup.

What should I do?
I need to prove to the dealer that I know the car is not worth $35k.

Thanks for the AutoCheck bsp8181, I really appreciate it!
Oh, and a quick question; should i also run a CarFax? The AutoCheck didn't show much information as the last report was at 18 miles.
I'm unsure whether the CarFax will show more information or not.

[07E92TT]

Originally Posted by Darkcyd_Turbo

Wrong...sticker says car is equipped with ZSP. Whether it has an oil cooler or not is going to be dependent on the build date for the 2007's. Do a quick to find out when they fitted the '07s with the oil cooler. And it's 18" wheels not 19"s.

Actually it was offered with OPTIONAL 19"s for an extra grand.

[MissNatalie]

Well I learned a family friend's husband works in the auto-industry and he has provided me with some information about Manheim business.
According to him, an '07 335i goes for somewhere in the range of $25k - $29k.
He also said since the mileage on the car is on the higher side, the car's value should be more toward the lower end of the range.

So I'm figuring the car is worth somewhere around $26k-ish at an auction.
Then figure, as bsp8181 said, a certified car is worth maybe $1500 more.
This puts me around $27.5-$28k for the car.
Add in some dealer profit, licensing, and tax and I'm aiming for $30k-$31k for the car.

Is this wishful thinking, a fair price, or still too high?

[Socom]

Originally Posted by MissNatalie

Well I learned a family friend's husband works in the auto-industry and he has provided me with some information about Manheim business.
According to him, an '07 335i goes for somewhere in the range of $25k - $29k.
He also said since the mileage on the car is on the higher side, the car's value should be more toward the lower end of the range.

So I'm figuring the car is worth somewhere around $26k-ish at an auction.
Then figure, as bsp8181 said, a certified car is worth maybe $1500 more.
This puts me around $27.5-$28k for the car.
Add in some dealer profit, licensing, and tax and I'm aiming for $30k-$31k for the car.

Is this wishful thinking, a fair price, or still too high?

Depends on the dealer. They very well will probably let you walk because tomorrow there will be someone in who will pay $1k under asking price.

[Ramos]

My advise don't buy an 07, spend a little more on an 08... The 07's have way more problems.. not just fuel pumps but all the wastegate problems and the tail light problems just to name a few

[bsp8181]

Originally Posted by MissNatalie

Well I learned a family friend's husband works in the auto-industry and he has provided me with some information about Manheim business.
According to him, an '07 335i goes for somewhere in the range of $25k - $29k.
He also said since the mileage on the car is on the higher side, the car's value should be more toward the lower end of the range.

So I'm figuring the car is worth somewhere around $26k-ish at an auction.
Then figure, as bsp8181 said, a certified car is worth maybe $1500 more.
This puts me around $27.5-$28k for the car.
Add in some dealer profit, licensing, and tax and I'm aiming for $30k-$31k for the car.

Is this wishful thinking, a fair price, or still too high?

Here is what has worked for me: Find a few ads for similar vehicles, with similar mileages in the $27-28k range. Bring them to the dealer. Tell them that you would like to buy the CPO from them, if they can get within $1,500 of those other vehicles. Tell them you have a family member in the business, and as such, you you understand that they have overhead, and need to make a profit. For this reason, you completely understand if they can't get to your number, there will be no hard feelings, but you wanted to at least give them a chance. Be nice, but make it clear that you have no emotions involved, strictly business.

Also, how you finance the vehicle makes an impact too. If you are financing it through the dealer and BMW FS CPO program, they are probably getting a flat fee from BMW FS in the range of $250-500. If you pay cash, or self-arrange using your own bank/credit union, the dealer earns nothing on the financing.

[HazChem]

These are good tips given by posters here and you should write some points down for discussion with the dealer. However, you need to set in your mind what the highest you feel comfortable that you'll pay and stick with it. If a dealer believes he can get a better price, no amount of haggling will move him.

The most important thing is to walk away if the price doesn't come down to an amount you are willing to pay. They can sense when a buyer has an emotional attachment when making a sale and if he feels you are emotionally invested in the car, they are going to be less willing to reduce their price.

[jopa489]

Originally Posted by Darkcyd_Turbo

Wrong...sticker says car is equipped with ZSP. Whether it has an oil cooler or not is going to be dependent on the build date for the 2007's. Do a quick to find out when they fitted the '07s with the oil cooler. And it's 18" wheels not 19"s.

Don't mean to be obnoxious here, but I'm not wrong. Not all ZSP cars have the cooler, and the upgraded wheels are 19s (style 230) with performance tires. As someone mentioned above, this was/is a $1000 option and included increased top speed limiter (to 155mph), oil cooler, and of course the upgraded wheels and tires.

[Scanman]

I may as well chime in and report the converse of this subject.

I purchased my 07 335i CPO this summer with 14k miles, it was;
fully loaded steptronic
30% tint
clear bra
previous owner spent time making it a euro spec car....rear fogs, clear markers, ext.

I paid 38,000, there asking price was 40.

....not every one gets a great deal.

[omelet1978]

I know the 335 is powerful, but have you thought about an older one to save some cash? Just bought an 06 330i from Carmax for 22k. Had the premium and cold weather packages w/ 53k miles. I bought an extended warranty on it too for 3 years/36k miles for $1800 which brought the total price to $23,800.