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      09-19-2009, 02:45 AM   #1
e.n335
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How European Tuners prefer to performance tune the 335i

Hi,

Since I tried different tunings in the past two years and had discussions with some serious tuners I'd like to share the common understanding:

- The first, basic step is that you should have the OEM oilcooler
- Next, the ECU has to be tuned. The tuners I spoke with prefer ECU-Flashes over Piggy's. I can't comment this thus I only have knowldege about early stages of Piggy's for the 335i.
- Next step should be better DV's. Even the OEM DV's usually don't leak they might not work properly with the higher boost.
- For a powerful tune, they prefer an upgraded FMIC and a bigger oilcooler. Catted DP's help for sure and add additional power. Personally I'm still on the stock DP's but I'm looking forward to install catted DP's in the near future.

Well, long story short: Performance tuning is always a package, not an ECU-Flash or Piggy only. The N54 tends to run on the hot side, FMIC and bigger Oilcooler are a great help here. The DP's help to let the system flow. Currently no tuner I spoke with is dealing with intakes, the stock intake seems to be pretty good. IMO, a boost gauge is mandatory and should be installed first, in advance of any turbo engine performance tuning.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-19-2009, 02:57 AM   #2
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what a surprising info
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The ultimate mods' installation thread

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      09-19-2009, 03:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo View Post
what a surprising info
This thread is for beginners. I am surprised, what kind of questions are asked sometimes. However, it's always challenging to do something for the first time. It should help to achieve a smooth and stable engine tuning without compromising the capabilities of the N54 engine. It also should inform about the scope in case someone starts tuning the 335i and provide some transparancy about the real costs.

I know, a lot of us don't need this info.

I'm running my 335i tuned since 40.000 miles now. Engine is strong and runs cool, burns virually no oil and there are no issues at all. I always use the best Premium quality gas I can get and do oil-changes more frequently ( ~ every 6.500 miles ). The car is my daily driver and faster than the current untuned M3. I enjoy it . My engine power is increased by approx. 35% compared to stock which transforms the car.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-19-2009, 05:00 AM   #4
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Hmmm,

In addition, what I have been informed is that the N54 has been developed as an alternate engine for the current M3, providing 380 HP crank. In this state the engine passed BMW stress testing and quality assurance. As we know, BMW builds quite beefy and I expect that even around 440 HP crank ( plus approx. 15% ) would not impact the enginge internals. However, in the 335i the Fuel-System, Radiator, Oli-Cooler, Intercooler, Intake, Catalysts and Exhaust may be partitially not dimensioned for 440 HP. So it needs a balanced setup to achieve a proper engine environment.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-19-2009, 05:48 AM   #5
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Eeehhhh...... Currently, Piggybacks offer a ton of engine management controls. ECU tunes dont offer the same amount of power, or anywhere close. Until map switchers come out, theres not much of a point in a flash IMHO. Cat-LESS DPs offer a great increase in power. If your looking for straight flow, thats the way to go. Oil coolers aren't necessary and dont even make a difference until you reach temps >250. You most likely wont do that unless tracking the car. Otherwise, its not really too important. LOTS of people talk about intakes and there are ones that work, ones that dont, and they all have their upsides and downsides. I suggest you read some more about it. FMICs are a good idea in general. The only DV upgrades are the forge DVs and blow off valves. The first version of Forge DVs leaked, and I'm waiting to hear positive reviews of the second version. The stock DVs are good till about 15psi, then they tend to tear and leak.

I dont mean it in a bad way but I'm pretty sure that anybody with a JB3 or vishnu tune and no other supporting mods would shit on your flash. There are stages to go through but cars with full stage 3 tunes are pushing 450+hp to the wheels. A lot has changed in the last year and meth injection is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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      09-19-2009, 07:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Hi,

Since I tried different tunings in the past two years and had discussions with some serious tuners I'd like to share the common understanding:

- The first, basic step is that you should have the OEM oilcooler
- Next, the ECU has to be tuned. The tuners I spoke with prefer ECU-Flashes over Piggy's. I can't comment this thus I only have knowldege about early stages of Piggy's for the 335i.
- Next step should be better DV's. Even the OEM DV's usually don't leak they might not work properly with the higher boost.
- For a powerful tune, they prefer an upgraded FMIC and a bigger oilcooler. Catted DP's help for sure and add additional power. Personally I'm still on the stock DP's but I'm looking forward to install catted DP's in the near future.

Well, long story short: Performance tuning is always a package, not an ECU-Flash or Piggy only. The N54 tends to run on the hot side, FMIC and bigger Oilcooler are a great help here. The DP's help to let the system flow. Currently no tuner I spoke with is dealing with intakes, the stock intake seems to be pretty good. IMO, a boost gauge is mandatory and should be installed first, in advance of any turbo engine performance tuning.

Cheers,
Eugen
we will do an intresting test tomorrow, there will bee 10+ 335s with all types of mods in a tuner test.
Procede, JB3, noelle,giac,v-tech,Ess and some more, i looks like we will have most if the current tuners participating, will start a new thread tomorow with direct rapports.
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      09-19-2009, 09:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
Eeehhhh...... Currently, Piggybacks offer a ton of engine management controls. ECU tunes dont offer the same amount of power, or anywhere close. Until map switchers come out, theres not much of a point in a flash IMHO. Cat-LESS DPs offer a great increase in power. If your looking for straight flow, thats the way to go. Oil coolers aren't necessary and dont even make a difference until you reach temps >250. You most likely wont do that unless tracking the car. Otherwise, its not really too important. LOTS of people talk about intakes and there are ones that work, ones that dont, and they all have their upsides and downsides. I suggest you read some more about it. FMICs are a good idea in general. The only DV upgrades are the forge DVs and blow off valves. The first version of Forge DVs leaked, and I'm waiting to hear positive reviews of the second version. The stock DVs are good till about 15psi, then they tend to tear and leak.

I dont mean it in a bad way but I'm pretty sure that anybody with a JB3 or vishnu tune and no other supporting mods would shit on your flash. There are stages to go through but cars with full stage 3 tunes are pushing 450+hp to the wheels. A lot has changed in the last year and meth injection is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
???
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      09-19-2009, 09:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
Eeehhhh...... Currently, Piggybacks offer a ton of engine management controls. ECU tunes dont offer the same amount of power, or anywhere close. Until map switchers come out, theres not much of a point in a flash IMHO. Cat-LESS DPs offer a great increase in power. If your looking for straight flow, thats the way to go. Oil coolers aren't necessary and dont even make a difference until you reach temps >250. You most likely wont do that unless tracking the car. Otherwise, its not really too important. LOTS of people talk about intakes and there are ones that work, ones that dont, and they all have their upsides and downsides. I suggest you read some more about it. FMICs are a good idea in general. The only DV upgrades are the forge DVs and blow off valves. The first version of Forge DVs leaked, and I'm waiting to hear positive reviews of the second version. The stock DVs are good till about 15psi, then they tend to tear and leak.

I dont mean it in a bad way but I'm pretty sure that anybody with a JB3 or vishnu tune and no other supporting mods would shit on your flash. There are stages to go through but cars with full stage 3 tunes are pushing 450+hp to the wheels. A lot has changed in the last year and meth injection is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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      09-19-2009, 11:47 AM   #9
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eugene is back from the dead.
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      09-19-2009, 11:51 AM   #10
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nice info
thanks
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      09-19-2009, 12:21 PM   #11
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eugene is back from the dead.
Well, my sister died far too early, it was a long lasting process and I had to recover from personal issues tue to this ...

But as said, I'm back again .
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      09-19-2009, 01:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Well, my sister died far too early, it was a long lasting process and I had to recover from personal issues tue to this ...

But as said, I'm back again .

sorry about your loss. welcome back
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      09-19-2009, 01:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Well, my sister died far too early, it was a long lasting process and I had to recover from personal issues tue to this ...

But as said, I'm back again .
Very sorry to hear this Eugene. I wish u and your family the best.


Nice to have you back around these parts.
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      09-19-2009, 01:55 PM   #14
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Thanks. Everything is ok again.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-19-2009, 10:33 PM   #15
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Wow. Eugen has been around almost as long as me. I just post less than he does. Good to see him back. Waiting to hear specifics on his experience with European flashes.
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      09-19-2009, 11:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Well, my sister died far too early, it was a long lasting process and I had to recover from personal issues tue to this ...

But as said, I'm back again .
Sorry for your loss buddy. Hope all is well and glad to have you back

I thought you bought the RR catless pipes at one point?
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      09-19-2009, 11:46 PM   #17
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Well, I bought the RR catless DP's long time ago and sold them without having them installed. I'm looking forward to high quality catted DP's with no need for O2 SIMs.

Some tuners customize the OEM DP's with high-flow cats which is nothing I would prefer as well.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-19-2009, 11:50 PM   #18
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Have you been looking at the AR catted or another make?
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      09-19-2009, 11:54 PM   #19
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AR seem to work fine. What about CP-E ?
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      09-20-2009, 08:46 AM   #20
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Hi Eugen,
What are you hearing about the new BMW Performance engine tune kit w/ all the extra cooling? That seems like an excellent base to start from.
I lost my sister about 15 years ago (car accident), and there still is hardly a week that goes by that I don't think about her. Family are precious.
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      09-20-2009, 11:47 AM   #21
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Eugen,

This is a good post, especially the part about tuning the car in its entirety. Too often, people will slap on just an exhaust or just an ECU, that is incomplete. The best path is one in which the ECU is modified to work with other physical modifications such as DPs, Exhaust and intake.
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      09-20-2009, 03:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Hi Eugen,
What are you hearing about the new BMW Performance engine tune kit w/ all the extra cooling? That seems like an excellent base to start from.
I lost my sister about 15 years ago (car accident), and there still is hardly a week that goes by that I don't think about her. Family are precious.
Hi,

for me the point of the BMW Performance engine tune is that BMW directly adresses a weak point of the N54, its cooling.
Just turning the dial in a way, that 120 degC are now in the middle of the oil-temp gauge instead of 100 degC, when they released the car seems not to be the best solution . The additional cooler behind the front-bumper on the right side does it. As I'm always looking for safe tuning, it will certainly be a good point to start from. However, the power gains are not worth to mention, compared to what we all know already. So I'll try to get the coolant components only. Bigger oil-coolers and FMIC's certainly help as well, together with the enhanced coolant components of the kit the package seems perfect from my point of view.

I'm currently close to 100 degC in daily driving ( about 105 usually ), the added cooling capability of this kit should bring the temps down to stable 100 degC except you start to push the car. However, even when pushing it I try to achieve no higher temps than 120 degC. Finally oil can cool engine internals quite well but will not cool components that effective where coolant is supposed to be the primary heat exchange. Isn't Dinan increasing the flow of the water-pump with their tune ? Nice, but appropriate hardware is the better approach for me.

Cheers,
Eugen
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