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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > How European Tuners prefer to performance tune the 335i



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      09-21-2009, 04:37 AM   #23
antonin
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Hamman kit

Hi Eugene,

I will receive my 335i (e91 xdrive) this week, and I've planned to install the Hamman 360bhp and 540Nm after one or two month. What do you think about that choice ? Do I have to plan the performance oil cooler too in your opinion ?

As anybody some experience with the Hamman ECU flash ?

Thanks

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      09-21-2009, 06:36 AM   #24
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Some tuners customize the OEM DP's with high-flow cats which is nothing I would prefer as well.
Which tuners ? Can you name a few ? I am interested in stock downpipes with high-flow catalysts (that won't cause CELs).
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      09-21-2009, 08:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by antonin View Post
Hi Eugene,

I will receive my 335i (e91 xdrive) this week, and I've planned to install the Hamman 360bhp and 540Nm after one or two month. What do you think about that choice ? Do I have to plan the performance oil cooler too in your opinion ?

As anybody some experience with the Hamman ECU flash ?

Thanks

antonin
As you are located in Switzerland, I'd highly recommend www.daehler.com, it's a version of the Noelle tune. Daehler is well-known in Switzerland, he works together with Swiss BMW dealerships so in case you would have issues you will be supported from both companies which is priceless, IMO . More than worth the price you pay for the tune.

Temps (IMO for this level of tuning): FMIC first ( provides noticeable additional power as well ), Oil-Cooler second ( significantly reduces oil-temps, I know the VKM product.). Pls. do NOT use an additional OC at the left side of the cars front bumber, you might need this space for the cooler provided with the BMW performance kit.

Enjoy your car, you won't be disappointed .

BTW, Meth. is a great thing, also very helpful for cooling. Currently a few 335i owners are getting their first impressions, for me definitely a thing I would look after the warranty period expired. Let's wait for some more long-term experience, I'm not sure whether tranny issues will appear with these huge power increases.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-21-2009, 09:29 AM   #26
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Which tuners ? Can you name a few ? I am interested in stock downpipes with high-flow catalysts (that won't cause CELs).
Well, 2 located in Switzerland:

http://www.daehler.com/
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/R-S-K-Tech/ - they provide great quality AND pricing.

Basicly every good exhaust shop should be able to do this, just make sure they use good metallic catalysts.

However, the modification will be detected and so there is no reason to perform this kind of DP upgrade. There are better solutions around, even catted, which would be my choice.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-21-2009, 12:48 PM   #27
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thanks !

Thank you Eugene for all these info !

I'm sure I won't be disappointed with this car. I previously owned a Z4M, and now I have a 120d... so it was too hard to remain wise with a very economical diesel...

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      09-21-2009, 01:02 PM   #28
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Thank you Eugene for all these info !

I'm sure I won't be disappointed with this car. I previously owned a Z4M, and now I have a 120d... so it was too hard to remain wise with a very economical diesel...

antonin
I tell you - I have owned the E46 M3, the X5 3.0d and now the 335i. The X5 3.0d has been a big disappointment, I will never buy a diesel again but had to make the experience. The 335i is just great, the daehler tune works very well and transforms the car, reliable as far as I know ... sorry for being offtopic ...

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-21-2009, 01:59 PM   #29
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why didn't you had a good experience with X5 ? just the motor or the car too ? My stepfather has a X5 3.0d and his very satisfied with it.


do you have an idea about the price of an ECU by dähler ? I will get in touch with them tomorrow...

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      09-21-2009, 02:08 PM   #30
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why didn't you had a good experience with X5 ? just the motor or the car too ? My stepfather has a X5 3.0d and his very satisfied with it.


do you have an idea about the price of an ECU by dähler ? I will get in touch with them tomorrow...

antonin
X5: power distribution and lack of power, even tuned ...
Daehler: We are talking about CHF 4.000 +, trust me, it's worth it.

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-21-2009, 02:36 PM   #31
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However, the modification will be detected and so there is no reason to perform this kind of DP upgrade. There are better solutions around, even catted, which would be my choice.
What do you mean by "detected" ? You mean, the engine will detect the cats were changed and throw check engine codes ? Or detected by dealership (which I don't really care in my country) ? I was looking for a pair of performance catalysts that do not need O2 sensor simulators...so far no one could name a model that should work well. I read that even the catted aftermarket downpipes throw catalyst-related codes...so they are essentially useless.
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      09-21-2009, 02:44 PM   #32
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I mean detected by the car and so by the dealership. I'm currently looking for some high-flow catted DP's which will not throw codes without using O2-SIMs. I'm post 29.2 and will let you know about the success ...
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      09-21-2009, 03:03 PM   #33
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I mean detected by the car and so by the dealership. I'm currently looking for some high-flow catted DP's which will not throw codes without using O2-SIMs. I'm post 29.2 and will let you know about the success ...
Great, thanks ! It would be great if someone could know what parameters do the stock catalysts have (or maybe type and make ?), this way it would be easier to select some metallic equivalent catalysts.
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      09-21-2009, 03:48 PM   #34
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AR Design - they have claimed no o2 codes without sims. At least, that's what I got in an email.

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Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
I mean detected by the car and so by the dealership. I'm currently looking for some high-flow catted DP's which will not throw codes without using O2-SIMs. I'm post 29.2 and will let you know about the success ...
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      09-21-2009, 03:51 PM   #35
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ar catted DPs only threw codes with Dinan tune and no sims. I think codes involved reduction of backpressure.
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      09-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #36
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Interesting ... are AR catted DP's known to be throwing codes with other tunes than Dinan and no O2 SIMs ? According to stressdoc this may happen in case of backpressure is involved ...
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      09-21-2009, 07:11 PM   #37
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Interesting ... are AR catted DP's known to be throwing codes with other tunes than Dinan and no O2 SIMs ? According to stressdoc this may happen in case of backpressure is involved ...
My buddy just got the AR catted dp's with his Procede Rev I. There was no need to install O2 simms on his car because the dp's didn't throw a code. We confirmed with BT.
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      09-22-2009, 08:07 AM   #38
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could all members contribute to fill in a list of European/UK flash tunes for N54?

This would be useful for European members and me to choose the right one.

As far as I know:

Noelle: alpina software expensive
Evotec: expensive
Giac: stage2 coming, dealers in UK + Paris France
ESS based in Norway


Of course the ideal solution is to find a near dealer to flash it over OBD or at home via laptop...
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      09-22-2009, 11:38 AM   #39
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As I understand it, only 2 clear cases of codes thrown with ar catted DPs, both with Dinan tune. Many, many others have no problem with the ar catted DPs and no O2 simms.
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      09-22-2009, 02:57 PM   #40
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Have been @ daehler today and reviewed the modded stock DP's. Think or say anything about Swiss, but they provide unbeatable quality and precision for appropriate money, of course. In time. I learned this when I came to Switzerland 14 years ago. The DP's worked on a brand-new 335i ( otherwise stock ), just still not tuned otherwise and on a tuned 335i ( the Noelle version of daehler ). Metal 100 cell cats are used.

I deciced to go this route, better safe than sorry. IMO, exchanging ( or even elimitating ? ) the primary cats is a very senseful and sensitive upgrade on the 335i. Why ? First I dislike the missing flex sections of the aftermarket DP's. Second, most of them are not providing the bolt where the stock DP's are mounted to the car on the bottom side ( might be related to First ). Third, I got the proof that the modified stock DP's work without throwing any code, stock or tuned. Fourth, there will be no fitting issues at all. I have never been looking for maximum horsepower anyways, just a for quite good, balanced and reliable tune ( which resulted in a pretty strong one ). I will drive this great car for years, especially due to the fact the N54 engine is already End Of Life. The next engine, the N55 will be much harder to tune, will not be a real bi-turbo and will probably leak on strong internals, but who already knows ... BTW the ECU flash is homologated in Switzerland.

Core exchange is mandatory. I'll get the core of a brand-new car and had my brand-new DP's - still to be modded - in my hands today. They could be installed next week.

Cars with such modded DP's are driving around in Switzerland since more than 18 months, no issues at all. I'm starting to realize that quality in performance tuning has it's justification and it's price. Whatever I tried with BMWs in the past, I always ended up with daehler. If you buy cheap, you probably buy twice. Lesson learned. Everything sounds good to me right now ...

Cheers,
Eugen
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      09-23-2009, 04:27 AM   #41
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Isn't Dinan increasing the flow of the water-pump with their tune ?
Noelle/Evotech are doing this as well

Have you already checked your coolant temperature when pushing hard? Even going 280km/h+ on the Autobahn my coolant temperature is rd about 90C which is ok I assume. I'm running Evotech 400hp Flash, AR Catted DPs, VK Oilcooler, VK FMIC.
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      09-23-2009, 04:42 AM   #42
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I should have the cp-e catted downpipes within 2 weeks. ill post a review.
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      09-23-2009, 05:18 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Have been @ daehler today and reviewed the modded stock DP's. Think or say anything about Swiss, but they provide unbeatable quality and precision for appropriate money, of course. In time. I learned this when I came to Switzerland 14 years ago. The DP's worked on a brand-new 335i ( otherwise stock ), just still not tuned otherwise and on a tuned 335i ( the Noelle version of daehler ). Metal 100 cell cats are used.

I deciced to go this route, better safe than sorry. IMO, exchanging ( or even elimitating ? ) the primary cats is a very senseful and sensitive upgrade on the 335i. Why ? First I dislike the missing flex sections of the aftermarket DP's. Second, most of them are not providing the bolt where the stock DP's are mounted to the car on the bottom side ( might be related to First ). Third, I got the proof that the modified stock DP's work without throwing any code, stock or tuned. Fourth, there will be no fitting issues at all. I have never been looking for maximum horsepower anyways, just a for quite good, balanced and reliable tune ( which resulted in a pretty strong one ). I will drive this great car for years, especially due to the fact the N54 engine is already End Of Life. The next engine, the N55 will be much harder to tune, will not be a real bi-turbo and will probably leak on strong internals, but who already knows ... BTW the ECU flash is homologated in Switzerland.

Core exchange is mandatory. I'll get the core of a brand-new car and had my brand-new DP's - still to be modded - in my hands today. They could be installed next week.

Cars with such modded DP's are driving around in Switzerland since more than 18 months, no issues at all. I'm starting to realize that quality in performance tuning has it's justification and it's price. Whatever I tried with BMWs in the past, I always ended up with daehler. If you buy cheap, you probably buy twice. Lesson learned. Everything sounds good to me right now ...

Cheers,
Eugen
You are thinking exactly like I am ! Unfortunately I have to say that most tuners (not only americans) do not target the "soft-core" enthusiast which needs subtle but significant modifications to the car while still obeying the laws, regulations and wanting the engine to last as long as possible. Most tuners are only after maximum power gains but without taking care of engine longevity or even the legality of their products. Look at the missing flex section in aftermarket downpipes. Or look at the engine bay dual-cone intakes that are so popular.

No one bothered to build a 335i intake with engine longevity in mind. But this is also because in USA most of the car are leased and the owners do not care about them too much.

So in short, my plan is to buy a set of used stock downpipes and sending them to a tuner to install metallic catalysts instead of the stock ones. I feel that this is the way to go for me.

Can you please find out the exact brand and model of the catalysts used in the downpipes that worked in a stock and modded car ? I would be grateful for this information...
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      09-23-2009, 05:21 AM   #44
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The OEM DPs have the flex part only becaude they are double wall cans. this is done to attenuate the turbo spinning sound. There is no need of flex section on single wall DPs
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