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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > How European Tuners prefer to performance tune the 335i



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      09-24-2009, 05:45 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
fwiw, IMO the r catted ceramic coated DPs are the "high quality / long term reliability" option here in comparison with an OEM w/ replacement insert.
what is the advantage of ceramic coated if my car never sees snow or salt ??
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      09-25-2009, 02:40 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
what is the advantage of ceramic coated if my car never sees snow or salt ??
Its not about corrosion. Its about keeping the exhaust gases as hot as possible, thus less dense. This way the gas velocity is increased and the exhaust gases leave the exhaust sooner, creating less backpressure.

But I think the stock double-wall downpipes are more effective at this.
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      09-25-2009, 10:17 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
As you are located in Switzerland, I'd highly recommend www.daehler.com, it's a version of the Noelle tune. Daehler is well-known in Switzerland, he works together with Swiss BMW dealerships so in case you would have issues you will be supported from both companies which is priceless, IMO . More than worth the price you pay for the tune.

Temps (IMO for this level of tuning): FMIC first ( provides noticeable additional power as well ), Oil-Cooler second ( significantly reduces oil-temps, I know the VKM product.). Pls. do NOT use an additional OC at the left side of the cars front bumber, you might need this space for the cooler provided with the BMW performance kit.

Enjoy your car, you won't be disappointed .

BTW, Meth. is a great thing, also very helpful for cooling. Currently a few 335i owners are getting their first impressions, for me definitely a thing I would look after the warranty period expired. Let's wait for some more long-term experience, I'm not sure whether tranny issues will appear with these huge power increases.

Cheers,
Eugen
I do absolutely agree that good tuning is a combination of components, closely fit to eachother. I drive the AC Schnitzer set-up: a very good car. I would really suggest to modify the suspension 1st, before you do any engine-modification. The stock car is fast enough, but with some better suspension, you transform the car form a family saloon to a treu sportscar! A lot faster in corners and on the track!

As for Dahler. I have driven the Mini R53S Works / Dahler. Great quality produtcs. Great prices to. They promised by the way 240bhp+, but I never could go further then 230bhp. So that was a disappointment. But quality was nice though.

Picture: Engine Mini Cooper Works/Dahler R53S Water-to-air intercooler

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      09-25-2009, 10:39 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
Its not about corrosion. Its about keeping the exhaust gases as hot as possible, thus less dense. This way the gas velocity is increased and the exhaust gases leave the exhaust sooner, creating less backpressure.

But I think the stock double-wall downpipes are more effective at this.
The fluid dynamics here are way beyond our abilities to speculate. In general ceramic coatings contribute to improved thermodynamic properties. I think Orb has an engineering background in this area, so maybe we could get him to discuss this. One of my brothers is a Prof in ceramic engineering and could also provide some insight.

As for OEM vs. some of the aftermarket DPs, the data on power increases suggest otherwise, no? Or maybe this is just the result of lowered restriction. Do we have dyno, EGTs, etc. for the OEM DPs with metal cats? I forget. This would be a great experiment! Maybe Shiv or scalbert can figure a way to get data from the ECU that would bear on this question.
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      09-25-2009, 10:44 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acs1.35i View Post
I do absolutely agree that good tuning is a combination of components, closely fit to each other. I drive the AC Schnitzer set-up: a very good car. I would really suggest to modify the suspension 1st, before you do any engine-modification. The stock car is fast enough, but with some better suspension, you transform the car form a family saloon to a true sportscar! A lot faster in corners and on the track!
Amen! +1000.

Here in USA speed limits are so low that most enthusiast drivers only compete in stop light wars, rather than high speed autobahn touring or alpine twisties. Hence the overwhelming bias towards engine tunes for quicker acceleration, and suspension tuning for looks rather than function.
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      09-26-2009, 06:50 PM   #72
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2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Hi,

Since I tried different tunings in the past two years and had discussions with some serious tuners I'd like to share the common understanding:

- The first, basic step is that you should have the OEM oilcooler
- Next, the ECU has to be tuned. The tuners I spoke with prefer ECU-Flashes over Piggy's. I can't comment this thus I only have knowldege about early stages of Piggy's for the 335i.
- Next step should be better DV's. Even the OEM DV's usually don't leak they might not work properly with the higher boost.
- For a powerful tune, they prefer an upgraded FMIC and a bigger oilcooler. Catted DP's help for sure and add additional power. Personally I'm still on the stock DP's but I'm looking forward to install catted DP's in the near future.

Well, long story short: Performance tuning is always a package, not an ECU-Flash or Piggy only. The N54 tends to run on the hot side, FMIC and bigger Oilcooler are a great help here. The DP's help to let the system flow. Currently no tuner I spoke with is dealing with intakes, the stock intake seems to be pretty good. IMO, a boost gauge is mandatory and should be installed first, in advance of any turbo engine performance tuning.

Cheers,
Eugen
Eugen, great to see you back in action. I also extend my condolences, naturally.

BTT: If other (German speaking) Europeans venture out to this forum, I've put together a sort of tuning-list under this link. Feel free to comment and/or correct it, I always welcome your input. In fact, your comments contributed a good deal to my choice of modifications, so thanks for that! I will comment on individual points of this discussion under other posts.

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      09-26-2009, 06:56 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
could all members contribute to fill in a list of European/UK flash tunes for N54?

This would be useful for European members and me to choose the right one.

As far as I know:

Noelle: alpina software expensive
Evotec: expensive
Giac: stage2 coming, dealers in UK + Paris France
ESS based in Norway

Of course the ideal solution is to find a near dealer to flash it over OBD or at home via laptop...
Some corrections to this:

- Noelle Motors: Has been developed by Evotech and has nothing to do with the reprogramming of the Alpina B3 BT, although of course similar parameters are adapted. Noelle however modified the Evotech tune very slightly. The first Noelle software also was unsatisfactory for some clients; he now uses the latest Evotech flash.
- Evotech: It certainly is expensive if compared to other tunes (ESS, GIAC) or piggybacks; however, it's a very professional company and they can work with any latest software version from BMW, something which ESS for instance is not capable of. Their tune is also TV compliant, which is very important for German customers.
- ESS are based in Norway, but pursuant to my experience it is faster (even for European customers) to have their ECU shipped to the US where they can also flash it. Otherwise it takes at least 10-14 days which, compared with the 2-hours-flash the other companies offer, is quite a disadvantage.

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      09-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #74
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2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praemienhai View Post
The max oil temperature I have seen on the street with the VK OC was 125 degrees C, but only when pushing really hard. On the Nordschleife rd about 130 degrees C.

In normal driving I see 110 degrees C, crusing constantly 200 km/h on the Autobahn 115-120 degrees C. I'm using Mobil1 0w-40
Similar for me with the ar design oil cooler (second version in front of the radiator). Even two consecutive rounds on the Nordschleife didn't bring it over 125 degrees C; similar with lots of hard driving in the Alps over 2000 meters above sea level. When driving between 190-210 km/h it also is between 115 and 120, only more than 250 km/h see it exceeding 120 degrees (slightly).

One of the must-have mods for long-term reliability of the engine, IMO.

Alpina_B3_Lux

P.S. @ Eugen: Evotech (and thus also Noelle/Daehler I would assume) can program the flash so as to be compatible with aftermarket downpipes (with race cats or without any cats at all). This feature is included in the 400hp stage tune they offer, but I would assume they can also integrate it in the first stage.
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      09-26-2009, 07:07 PM   #75
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2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Amen! +1000.

Here in USA speed limits are so low that most enthusiast drivers only compete in stop light wars, rather than high speed autobahn touring or alpine twisties. Hence the overwhelming bias towards engine tunes for quicker acceleration, and suspension tuning for looks rather than function.
That's certainly true, although you don't need Autobahn without speed limits to feel the need for a good suspension. And I would also like to point out that the present forum gave me the idea to get a Quaife LSD and put together the M3 suspension upgrade (thanks to Harold, Craig and all others here).

Last week I drove a whole day very spiritedly through the Italian Alps (almost a dozen mountain passes, very few drivers ) and am now more convinced than ever that a differential is the most needed option on this car. Anytime you want to go around a sharp corner and floor it in the second (or even 3rd) gear, or you go over bumps in the road, the electronics kick in and rob you of all your power, which is quite annoying. Then comes a suspension upgrade (M3 parts, coilover); however, if you just want to go somewhat faster than the stock 335i, the OEM suspension is fine (I still feel comfortable even at 280 km/h, although with Alpina spoilers and 19" wheels).

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