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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede boost at gear change on auto



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      09-26-2009, 05:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
SO i did some testing...
I swapped coil pack 6 & 5 to 2 & 1 respectively.
I swapped sparkplugs 6 & 5 to 4 & 3 respectively

Ran the car on stage 2 defaults and still misfire on cyl 6 and 5.

Do you guys think i'm running too aggressive a stage for my mods? FMIC, Stett CAI, 94Octane, Forge DV, Stock Oil Cooler

Again, to clarify, limp only happens when i let the car switch gears on it's own. If i switch myself around 6200rpm, its fine.
Like I stated earlier...your symptoms sound exactly like mine did on the older maps, and I have the same mods as you incl Sunoco 94 Octane.

Currently I am running 9-09 maps on stage 1 ut = 73% ign, corr = 75% and the car just rips.

Whenever I go higher in boost or to stage 2, the car feels less natural and more "boosted", so I end up going back to stage 1.

I haven't tried a redline auto shift yet on these new maps - like you I just shift manually and avoid it alltogether......figure it's better for the compressors anyways.

But it's weird that my misfires were also on cylinders 5+6.

Shiv used to say that if you ran boost too high for your mods, it could blow out your spark....and I suppose that's what a misfire really is - a non ignition event.

But now the boost profile is similar among the maps so I guess you can simply try using less UT.

The FMIC and 94 octane should allow you to only go about 3-5% more UT IMHO. The catalytics are still the major bottleneck on the exit side, so improving the intake side can't really overcome this that much.

Why don't you just try lowering the UT to around 73% and see if the problem replicates?
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      09-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
SO i did some testing...
I swapped coil pack 6 & 5 to 2 & 1 respectively.
I swapped sparkplugs 6 & 5 to 4 & 3 respectively

Ran the car on stage 2 defaults and still misfire on cyl 6 and 5.

Do you guys think i'm running too aggressive a stage for my mods? FMIC, Stett CAI, 94Octane, Forge DV, Stock Oil Cooler

Again, to clarify, limp only happens when i let the car switch gears on it's own. If i switch myself around 6200rpm, its fine.
wow man if you still have both set of cats I really wouldn't run Stage 2...I would just go back to stage 1, do some logging to dial in the right setting there.
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      09-26-2009, 06:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
Like I stated earlier...your symptoms sound exactly like mine did on the older maps, and I have the same mods as you incl Sunoco 94 Octane.

Currently I am running 9-09 maps on stage 1 ut = 73% ign, corr = 75% and the car just rips.

Whenever I go higher in boost or to stage 2, the car feels less natural and more "boosted", so I end up going back to stage 1.

I haven't tried a redline auto shift yet on these new maps - like you I just shift manually and avoid it alltogether......figure it's better for the compressors anyways.

But it's weird that my misfires were also on cylinders 5+6.

Shiv used to say that if you ran boost too high for your mods, it could blow out your spark....and I suppose that's what a misfire really is - a non ignition event.

But now the boost profile is similar among the maps so I guess you can simply try using less UT.

The FMIC and 94 octane should allow you to only go about 3-5% more UT IMHO. The catalytics are still the major bottleneck on the exit side, so improving the intake side can't really overcome this that much.

Why don't you just try lowering the UT to around 73% and see if the problem replicates?
Thanks for the info! I'm in the same boat as you! If i go back to Stage 1, the car kicks butt again. No issues with the DS mode shifts. I usually shift myself but i have an underlining issue here. That is, if i'm running someone or just happen to punch down on the throttle to pass someone and happen to be almost at redline, i'll induce a limp.

I have dropped down to 77% to see what she does and she's still limping. Keep in mind, 80% UT is default for stage 2. I think the issue for me always has been my car (and it seems like there are a few out there now) does not like high boost at gear change. I remember when Dustin came out to Seattle and we upgraded to V2 (way back), we had the same issues and they adjusted the map to allow me to lower boost at gear change.

I'm pretty sure if I drop her down to 73%, problem would solve itself, as the overall boost would be lowered across the rpm band including gear change. Right now, i'm boosting 14-15psi when running hard and usually 12.5 13.5 at gear change and it causes misfires and limp. i ran valet mode and no issues.

More testing to do. Will raise upshift value to maximum 50 which should give me stock value on shift and see how car reacts. From that point, will keep lowering to see what i can safely bring her down to. I personally think 11-12psi max would work for my car but will let you guys know.

I want to do a dyno run with current mods i have. I have catless dp's and CP-E catless exhaust coming next week. I have a base run, a tune only run, and i want to do a Stett FMIC & CAI with tune run but it would limp out as we'd be doing a 3rd gear pull on the dyno!!!
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      09-26-2009, 06:20 PM   #26
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wow man if you still have both set of cats I really wouldn't run Stage 2...I would just go back to stage 1, do some logging to dial in the right setting there.
As per Shiv, see below. The question was asked and answered.
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Originally Posted by orientblue3 View Post
If we have Intake and an upgraded IC but no DP's, which STG (rev 2) is appropriate?
Also, non-DD is pre 29.2, correct?
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Stg 2 should be good for you. But remember that you have the ability to confirm the stability/aggressiveness of your map with the CANbus logging feature. So don't be afraid to do that. It will only make your car drive better and better.

Shiv
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      09-27-2009, 02:26 AM   #27
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So out testing yet again! And just to add in, all maps, if I shift myself, no issues at all!

9-9 maps
Valet mode- no issues
stage 1 - all defaults, limp on shift cyl 6 misfire
stage 2 - all defaults, limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

beta before 9-9map
defaults except ut set to 70%- limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

5-29 map
limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

I've swapped coilpack. Problem does not follow
swapped plugs, problem does not follow

no other codes on car besides misfire.
I'm replacing plugs 1 more time to see if that resolves issue.

Any other ideas I can try? And just to make sure, cyl 6 is closest to center of car, right?
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      09-27-2009, 08:25 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
So out testing yet again! And just to add in, all maps, if I shift myself, no issues at all!

9-9 maps
Valet mode- no issues
stage 1 - all defaults, limp on shift cyl 6 misfire
stage 2 - all defaults, limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

beta before 9-9map
defaults except ut set to 70%- limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

5-29 map
limp on shift cyl 6 misfire

I've swapped coilpack. Problem does not follow
swapped plugs, problem does not follow

no other codes on car besides misfire.
I'm replacing plugs 1 more time to see if that resolves issue.

Any other ideas I can try? And just to make sure, cyl 6 is closest to center of car, right?
Thanks for testing.....that means mine is probably going to do the same thing even on default settings.

I think cyl 6 is the one closest to the passenger compartment with cyl 1 being closest to the rad.

Are you having any HPFP symptoms like long cranks on cold starts?
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      09-27-2009, 11:48 AM   #29
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Thanks for testing.....that means mine is probably going to do the same thing even on default settings.

I think cyl 6 is the one closest to the passenger compartment with cyl 1 being closest to the rad.

Are you having any HPFP symptoms like long cranks on cold starts?
NO long cranks, car cutting power in corners etc. No other codes at all for once and i've had 2 fuel pumps go so i know the symtoms.

Iactually did a search and someone had posted a PDF on cyl locations so i did figure out the cyl order and yes, Cyl 6 is closest to the firewall.

I actually found an old thread i had created in April and was having the same issues and you had posted up in that one as well. This was BEFORE my engine swap and i was having the same issues with the 4-22 race maps. At that time, i was given a brand new injector for cyl 6 as well!

You had posted up logs with throttle closure issues. I attached my log and notice the throttle. This was stage 1 defaults

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      09-27-2009, 12:14 PM   #30
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This was me on stage 2 defaults 80%ut 100%ign and me switching gears myself. Notice the throttle plate on this.

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      09-27-2009, 12:40 PM   #31
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Sounds like carbon build up to me , cylinder 5 and 6 are the ones that runs hotter than the other ones according to early reports from bmw tuners in Europe.
I would suggest that you clean the injektors, a small amount of carbon could change the direction of the gasflow and cause the motor to missfire
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      09-27-2009, 12:48 PM   #32
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Sounds like carbon build up to me , cylinder 5 and 6 are the ones that runs hotter than the other ones according to early reports from bmw tuners in Europe.
I would suggest that you clean the injektors, a small amount of carbon could change the direction of the gasflow and cause the motor to missfire
Thats one of the things i was going to do as well. On my todo list
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      09-27-2009, 01:07 PM   #33
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How are you detecting these misfires at shifts? Only by logging? I've had two people comment they hear a funny noise between gear shifts (they say something similar to a rasp). I'm wondering if that's the problem. Anyone?
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      09-27-2009, 01:11 PM   #34
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How are you detecting these misfires at shifts? Only by logging? I've had two people comment they hear a funny noise between gear shifts (they say something similar to a rasp). I'm wondering if that's the problem. Anyone?
Basically what happens is as we are running the car, she pulls like crazy. Around 6100 - 6900rpm the car all of a sudden seems to have a ball and chain tied to the back holding her back, then, CEL and limp mode. Shut down and restart car and all power is restored or i could just keep driving and after a few minutes, the car retests itself and restores full power again.

The logging is just to see what she's doing when this happens.
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      09-27-2009, 01:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
Basically what happens is as we are running the car, she pulls like crazy. Around 6100 - 6900rpm the car all of a sudden seems to have a ball and chain tied to the back holding her back, then, CEL and limp mode. Shut down and restart car and all power is restored or i could just keep driving and after a few minutes, the car retests itself and restores full power again.

The logging is just to see what she's doing when this happens.
I have yet to get any logging done. Does anyone else get something similar to a harmonic/whisting (doesn't really sound like boost) during initial mild-moderate acceleration? It definitely wasn't there before Procede was installed (had SSTT before). Seems like its only in first gear and then when it shifts to second it goes away. Definitely an unsettling/non-normal noise. Anyone else have this?
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      09-27-2009, 01:22 PM   #36
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I have yet to get any logging done. Does anyone else get something similar to a harmonic/whisting (doesn't really sound like boost) during initial mild-moderate acceleration? It definitely wasn't there before Procede was installed (had SSTT before). Seems like its only in first gear and then when it shifts to second it goes away. Definitely an unsettling/non-normal noise. Anyone else have this?
From what i see on your mods, it could be your Stett CAI. The procede increases boost, hence uses more air. I have the same intake and you can definitely hear it "suck" in more air. When i go back to stock mode, it's not as pronounced.
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      09-27-2009, 03:59 PM   #37
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I have yet to get any logging done. Does anyone else get something similar to a harmonic/whisting (doesn't really sound like boost) during initial mild-moderate acceleration? It definitely wasn't there before Procede was installed (had SSTT before). Seems like its only in first gear and then when it shifts to second it goes away. Definitely an unsettling/non-normal noise. Anyone else have this?
Yes....I have this harmonic whistling sound at moderate spool up also.

AND I have brand new turbos....go figure.

At first I thought it was a minor boost leak, but my logs show perfect boost curves, and the sound has kind of a "ringing" to it which suggest to me I am hearing turbos.

I don't think it's necessarily abnormal unless it becomes very loud...in other words, it gets to the point where you can hear the sound constantly even over your engine noise.

It is unsettling, but I noticed when I swapped my car back to stock, the noise became barely noticeable.

Aftermarket parts like DCI, intercooler and dowpipes will amplify it and a surprising number of members seem to have some degree of this sound - especially on a cold engine.

But my car runs great, so I ain't touching anything.
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      09-27-2009, 04:06 PM   #38
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NO long cranks, car cutting power in corners etc. No other codes at all for once and i've had 2 fuel pumps go so i know the symtoms.

Iactually did a search and someone had posted a PDF on cyl locations so i did figure out the cyl order and yes, Cyl 6 is closest to the firewall.

I actually found an old thread i had created in April and was having the same issues and you had posted up in that one as well. This was BEFORE my engine swap and i was having the same issues with the 4-22 race maps. At that time, i was given a brand new injector for cyl 6 as well!

You had posted up logs with throttle closure issues. I attached my log and notice the throttle. This was stage 1 defaults
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This was me on stage 2 defaults 80%ut 100%ign and me switching gears myself. Notice the throttle plate on this.

That's interesting that you actually get LESS throttle closure on stage 2 than stage 1

I found that the amount of initial throttle closure is heavily influenced by how fast you apply throttle at the start of the run.

If you apply a lot of part throttle at the start, sometimes it tends to overshoot boost a bit and you get more closure.

The tunes are really good at boost control at full throttle.....it's the part throttle angles that are tricky to predict and therefore less consistent.

But that still doesn't explain the misfire codes
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      09-27-2009, 04:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Yes....I have this harmonic whistling sound at moderate spool up also.

AND I have brand new turbos....go figure.

At first I thought it was a minor boost leak, but my logs show perfect boost curves, and the sound has kind of a "ringing" to it which suggest to me I am hearing turbos.

I don't think it's necessarily abnormal unless it becomes very loud...in other words, it gets to the point where you can hear the sound constantly even over your engine noise.

It is unsettling, but I noticed when I swapped my car back to stock, the noise became barely noticeable.

Aftermarket parts like DCI, intercooler and dowpipes will amplify it and a surprising number of members seem to have some degree of this sound - especially on a cold engine.

But my car runs great, so I ain't touching anything.
Ok good to hear. I don't think it's my intake. I want to get someone else to hear to see if they can find a better word to describe it. Thanks for chiming in.
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      09-27-2009, 04:38 PM   #40
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Basically what happens is as we are running the car, she pulls like crazy. Around 6100 - 6900rpm the car all of a sudden seems to have a ball and chain tied to the back holding her back, then, CEL and limp mode. Shut down and restart car and all power is restored or i could just keep driving and after a few minutes, the car retests itself and restores full power again.

The logging is just to see what she's doing when this happens.
I didn't log, but EXACT same issue to a "t". Coilpack swap still misfired Cylinder 6 after your PM. Common sense would say this is a Procede issue with 6AT cars. I don't see many 6MT cars having issues. I don't know if the standard answer of change plugs!, must be a bad coilpack!?, work anymore.
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      09-27-2009, 08:00 PM   #41
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I didn't log, but EXACT same issue to a "t". Coilpack swap still misfired Cylinder 6 after your PM. Common sense would say this is a Procede issue with 6AT cars. I don't see many 6MT cars having issues. I don't know if the standard answer of change plugs!, must be a bad coilpack!?, work anymore.
Not many AT as Well.
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      09-27-2009, 08:57 PM   #42
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I didn't log, but EXACT same issue to a "t". Coilpack swap still misfired Cylinder 6 after your PM. Common sense would say this is a Procede issue with 6AT cars. I don't see many 6MT cars having issues. I don't know if the standard answer of change plugs!, must be a bad coilpack!?, work anymore.
I know manuals won't have this issue, as in my case, if I use DS mode, and shift myself, around 6200 -6500 rpm, no issues at all. This only happens when you let the car shift itself.

This is a concern to me as if my wife were to drive, she would just hit the pedal and let the car do everything, hence go into limp!
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      09-27-2009, 11:37 PM   #43
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I know manuals won't have this issue, as in my case, if I use DS mode, and shift myself, around 6200 -6500 rpm, no issues at all. This only happens when you let the car shift itself.

This is a concern to me as if my wife were to drive, she would just hit the pedal and let the car do everything, hence go into limp!
Sorry....I misinterpreted your logs.

You are obviously trying to show how you got a limp mode on stage 1 letting DS do the shift, while stage 2 you shift manually just before the limp point.

Mine limps pretty close to 7K rpm. so shifting manually at 6.5K avoids the event.....just as you have shown.

But you are right.....sometimes even if I am in manual mode, when I hammer the gas pedal too far I accidently hit the downshift point and the car will downshift on me right into redline zone and......BLING.....instant Limp mode

Really frustrating when it happens and I don't think there is anything wrong with the car.....it runs great up until redline.

Seems peculiar to the 6AT's then?
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      09-27-2009, 11:53 PM   #44
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Sorry....I misinterpreted your logs.

You are obviously trying to show how you got a limp mode on stage 1 letting DS do the shift, while stage 2 you shift manually just before the limp point.

Mine limps pretty close to 7K rpm. so shifting manually at 6.5K avoids the event.....just as you have shown.

But you are right.....sometimes even if I am in manual mode, when I hammer the gas pedal too far I accidently hit the downshift point and the car will downshift on me right into redline zone and......BLING.....instant Limp mode

Really frustrating when it happens and I don't think there is anything wrong with the car.....it runs great up until redline.

Seems peculiar to the 6AT's then?
Absolutely the point i was making. I dont think theres anything wrong with my car BUT, if there is, i want it dealt with! Thats why i'm trying to figure this out!

I know there are a lot of AT's out there. It would be nice to hear from them on their experiences. If their respected cars are working great, i'd like to know their settings and see their logs so i can further troubleshoot mine and help us guys that are having issues! We have 4 - 5 guys that have piped up stating their issues and they all seem to be the same. If we were to narrow it down to something hardware, that solves the issue for all of us! It would be great!

I have DP's and a full exhaust sitting here that I want to install. If there's a hardware issue, i don't want to add to the problem!

End of the day, i just want a nie fast car without the issues!
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