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      09-23-2009, 11:09 AM   #1
packinDSS
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VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what

With all the posts that I read about VK and "oh they make their stuff in China" and "it is probably poor quality...... THIS IS BS. VK seems to make a good product (in China) and does not POACH us with the BMW TAX.....so what is the problem? I can't wait to see their price point on exhaust. About time a vendor broke ranks and stopped ripping us off!

Why are people whining? This is exactly what we all wanted.....Good products at a good price. WAKE UP and Put Up or Shut up. Pay the American made UNION luxury tax if you want....but I'm not. Union workers are nothing but guys off the street that anyone could train to do a job....then they unionize and demand "super" pay for a job anyone could do...and then get pissed when jobs are moved overseas...gee I wonder why?. BS...what happened to getting an education to get ahead in life? Oh wait.....just join the UNION and POACH us some more... No thanks I'll buy from China.
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      09-23-2009, 11:12 AM   #2
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I agree with you 100% but you could have just posted in that thread. No need for a new one. :0
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      09-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #3
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+1 ... Just cant believe how many people are ignorant of the concept of globalization and still stuck in 70's.

Not sure how many of these guys have visited Shanghai ??...Its just as modern as any developed world city ...i think it even better than most. Everything is made from Semiconductors to Jian fighter jets. Its the new world , so the argument that chinese made is bad is super weak.

Its a shame that some vendors are using the China made excuse rather than highlighting the benefits of their products.
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      09-23-2009, 11:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packinDSS View Post
With all the posts that I read about VK and "oh they make their stuff in China" and "it is probably poor quality...... THIS IS BS. VK seems to make a good product (in China) and does not POACH us with the BMW TAX.....so what is the problem? I can't wait to see their price point on exhaust. About time a vendor broke ranks and stopped ripping us off!

Why are people whining? This is exactly what we all wanted.....Good products at a good price. WAKE UP and Put Up or Shut up. Pay the American made UNION luxury tax if you want....but I'm not. Union workers are nothing but guys off the street that anyone could train to do a job....then they unionize and demand "super" pay for a job anyone could do...and then get pissed when jobs are moved overseas...gee I wonder why?. BS...what happened to getting an education to get ahead in life? Oh wait.....just join the UNION and POACH us some more... No thanks I'll buy from China.
You are my hero lol. The unions are what are destroying this economy. I work in an industry that is heavily union organized, with the company I'm working for being one of the exceptions and I see where the expensive union wages go...one guy working and three guys taking a cigarette break. I'm looking forward to seeing the VK exhaust.
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      09-23-2009, 11:24 AM   #5
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There are some substantial differences in quality. I am going to be buying a set, and I will take some pics, show you what makes ours different.
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      09-23-2009, 11:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
There are some substantial differences in quality. I am going to be buying a set, and I will take some pics, show you what makes ours different.
Can't think of many ways to improve on bending some pipes and welding them...
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      09-23-2009, 11:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ano0oj View Post
Can't think of many ways to improve on bending some pipes and welding them...
Please tell me youre kidding?
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      09-23-2009, 11:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
There are some substantial differences in quality. I am going to be buying a set, and I will take some pics, show you what makes ours different.
How do you know there are differences in quality if you havent seen them already? Is it just a preconceived notion that made in china is bad ?
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      09-23-2009, 11:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
How do you know there are differences in quality if you havent seen them already? Is it just a preconceived notion that made in china is bad ?
I've seen plenty of pics. And I am familiar with the process used. Nothing preconceived whatsoever.
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      09-23-2009, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Please tell me youre kidding?
He has a point this isn't rocket science, these are not holding up 1,200 lbs or anything to this extreme. There might be minor difference in turbulent flow but they will not add up to a substantial difference. By the way with space limitation its not like they will be shaped much difference. As long as the welds dont leak it is fine it doesn't take that strong of a weld to hold up these pipes.
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      09-23-2009, 11:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I've seen plenty of pics. And I am familiar with the process used. Nothing preconceived whatsoever.
Okay....really think you should not make judgements from pictures . either way, your results are going to be baised. VK can do the same thing and find flaws..not sure if Vince wants to.
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      09-23-2009, 11:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
He has a point this isn't rocket science, these are not holding up 1,200 lbs or anything to this extreme. There might be minor difference in turbulent flow but they will not add up to a substantial difference. By the way with space limitation its not like they will be shaped much difference. As long as the welds dont leak it is fine it doesn't take that strong of a weld to hold up these pipes.
Weight is not the issue. Heat, vibration, expansion, contraction are.
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      09-23-2009, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
Okay....really think you should not make judegements from pictures . either way, your results are going to be baised. VK can do the same thing and find flaws..not sure if Vince wants to.
One can tell a *lot* from the pics, if you know what to look for. I am going to snag a set, and I will post up some comparo pics. I'd welcome any constructive criticism of our product - I always am looking for ways to improve our product and process.
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      09-23-2009, 11:47 AM   #14
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For every Chinese made product we buy, a US worker loses their job.
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      09-23-2009, 11:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Weight is not the issue. Heat, vibration, expansion, contraction are.
Agreed but these welds will hold up just fine. You do have a nice product by the way 3" will definatly be a plus when we have some bigger exhaust come out.
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      09-23-2009, 11:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
Agreed but these welds will hold up just fine. You do have a nice product by the way 3" will definatly be a plus when we have some bigger exhaust come out.
Based on?
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      09-23-2009, 11:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Weight is not the issue. Heat, vibration, expansion, contraction are.
take a look at jpsimpsons's dp's, it may not be rocket science, but quality counts as well as fitment.
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      09-23-2009, 11:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
He has a point this isn't rocket science, these are not holding up 1,200 lbs or anything to this extreme. There might be minor difference in turbulent flow but they will not add up to a substantial difference. By the way with space limitation its not like they will be shaped much difference. As long as the welds dont leak it is fine it doesn't take that strong of a weld to hold up these pipes.
Those that are in the industry will know the difference. Whether you appreciate the differences is where you have to decide.
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      09-23-2009, 11:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexye92 View Post
take a look at jpsimpsons's dp's, it may not be rocket science, but quality counts as well as fitment.
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      09-23-2009, 11:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packinDSS View Post
BMW TAX........ripping us off!
I'm sorry, but I really take issue with your statement. Our margins are VERY small. We are not here to make a killing, and we are not here to rip anybody off. We are a small business, not some huge Union run conglomerate.

We make a high quality product, and sell it for the best price possible. I never mark things up more "just because its a BMW".
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      09-23-2009, 12:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Based on?
The welds look great to me and they dont go through that much stress within the small area they comprise of. These pipes are not flexing in and out inches. I really wish you would stop bashing Vk's downpipes it does not make you our your company look good. I have nothing against your company and can not see why you are making attacks against vince. If you remember these pipes used to cost 550+ and the only reason they are so cheap is because he is selling them in batches of 50. Good luck to you and your company and keep to your own buisness please.
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      09-23-2009, 12:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
There are some substantial differences in quality. I am going to be buying a set, and I will take some pics, show you what makes ours different.
I look forward to your comparison. I believe then and only then can anyone make an argument against anyone elseís product. I personal have gotten pretty sick and tired of vender on vender crime without substantiated comparisons. Iím also equally sick of the trollers lurking in the forums just trying to start arguments and making blind comparisons of products that they know nothing about. Forums are great tools for their members and as most of us have come to know everything here is someoneís opinion and not necessarily the truth.
When it comes to my choice of purchases I take many factors in mind. Cost, performance gain, quality, fitment and product warranty. When it came to DPís I freely chose VK because of what I perceived as good quality, great price and I think Vince is a stand up guy who will stand behind his product. It may have been somewhat of a leap of faith choosing a product with almost no testing, but for me it was the right choice. I received mine and I think the quality is great. I canít speak of fitment nor performance as of yet because I havenít installed them yet, but I think I will again be very pleased. So pleased, that I took another leap of faith and ordered his intercooler.
In the end there will always be a debate about who has the best product, but I implore venders and forum members to conduct these debates on facts and real testing and not because it isĒmade in ChinaĒ as an argument.
Just my 2 cents.
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