[ar design]

Originally Posted by ridin135

The welds look great to me and they dont go through that much stress within the small area they comprise of. These pipes are not flexing in and out inches. I really wish you would stop bashing Vk's downpipes it does not make you our your company look good. I have nothing against your company and can not see why you are making attacks against vince. If you remember these pipes used to cost 550+ and the only reason they are so cheap is because he is selling them in batches of 50. Good luck to you and your company and keep to your own buisness please.

I was addressing your point about weight being the issue. I didnt see an attack on Vince anywhere, did you?

How can you see the quality of a weld when it has been ground down and polished? The only welds that can be seen are on the flanges. Which, IMO, look somewhat cold.

FWIW, most people in the industry would consider thousands of cycles of temperature swings of 1000+ degrees Fahrenheit, and massive amounts of vibration, a lot of stress. Not sure what your definition is?

[ridin135]

Originally Posted by ar design

I was addressing your point about weight being the issue. I didnt see an attack on Vince anywhere, did you?

FWIW, most people in the industry would consider temperature swings of 1000+ degrees Fahrenheit, and massive amounts of vibration, a lot of stress.

Its all relative and depends on what you are talking about. But no that would not be considered alot of stress for an exhaust manifold or downpipes these variations are on all cars. I have had ebay headers on my previous e46 for 4 years with no problems what so ever. When those came out companies like yourself and other na sayers were all saying they were crap and they would fail. Those headers also had alot more welds/bends.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by ridin135

Its all relative and depends on what you are talking about. But no that would not be considered alot of stress for an exhaust manifold or downpipes these variations are on all cars.

We will have to agree to disagree, then.

[john boxter]

this is turning out pretty interesting i love the price of the vk pipes i just want know what is the difference i must say with the advancements in the u.s. vs china i can see why that would be a decent arguement but i would like to know facts as I DO NOT KNOW.

[Craig@SupremePower]

Haven't seen the VK's in person to compare but the AR Design units are top notch quality...

[blisstik]

This thread is so LOL. Why are you guys having political issues with downpipes? I don't even have DPs and by judging the photos, specs, and weld, I would definitely go with AR. The price is a lot more but the quality looks a lot better. Tell me if ARs price is close to VKs, would you still choose VKs? I think I've made my point.

Just take a look at the exhausts market. It's the same thing, some costs more than others and there's a reason why.

Mods: please close the thread or move it. Should be filed under "Political Issues".

[335e92tx]

Its not my job to keep US employees working. I want value for my money.

Isn't it the age old moto if they can't compete they should not be in business?

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by brianhn1

For every Chinese made product we buy, a US worker loses their job.

Do you have data to support that statement? I have my own company where some out sourced products has helped me save costs and hire more workers as business grows. Have you thought about that scenario?

[Bomis]

Originally Posted by ar design

One can tell a *lot* from the pics, if you know what to look for. I am going to snag a set, and I will post up some comparo pics. I'd welcome any constructive criticism of our product - I always am looking for ways to improve our product and process.

+1000 could not have said it better my self....thanks!

[brianhn1]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

Do you have data to support that statement? I have my own company where some out sourced products has helped me save costs and hire more workers as business grows. Have you thought about that scenario?

Yes it happens. My business buys parts from all over the place: US, China, India, etc. I could tell you, in the case of at least a dozen of my vendors, that if I decided to buy a Chinese made product over a comparable US product, that US vendor would go out of business thereby displacing the workers. We buy that much volume and we demand quality.

Going to Asian labor doesn't necessarily equate to just cost savings. I changed from an Italian made part for an Indian made one. Saved me 20% in cost but the quality of the product is 20% worse. Quality control from India, China, etc. is typically spotty at times. With the increased failure rate of the India made part, I have to replace them more and my 20% margin increase is becomes smaller.

[iNam]

woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by brianhn1

Yes it happens. My business buys parts from all over the place: US, China, India, etc. I could tell you, in the case of at least a dozen of my vendors, that if I decided to buy a Chinese made product over a comparable US product, that US vendor would go out of business thereby displacing the workers. We buy that much volume and we demand quality.

Going to Asian labor doesn't necessarily equate to just cost savings. I changed from an Italian made part for an Indian made one. Saved me 20% in cost but the quality of the product is 20% worse. Quality control from India, China, etc. is typically spotty at times. With the increased failure rate of the India made part, I have to replace them more and my 20% margin increase is becomes smaller.

Maybe its time to find a good India/china vendor? ..what is your competition doing? I had similar experiences , its all in the due dilligence. There are ton of bad companies and some very good ones. Now that;s what takes time...we hired a third party quality firm which does dock audits and its working great for us so far.

[pdjafari]

people on this forum are morons. They know nothing of QC and ISO. Regardless, people forget about how in the 70s japanese cars would break down and were inferior compared to what the US offered. Show me one japanese car made in the 70s thats still running on the roads today. I can show you dozens of american made muscle thats still running strong. THe japanese drastically learned/improved upon their QC standards in the late 80s/early 90s. Today, their quality/reliability is second to none in the automotive industry.

China has recently stepped up their game in regards to building quality parts. 5-10 years ago they would just try to get a product out to make money for dirt cheap. Today? They have greatly improved their products, however they still refuse to use any standard (ISO) to follow up and enforce QC guidelines, hence why 90% of replica items from China either dont fit, or break prematurely or never last as long as the real thing. As the chinese products improved in relibility and quality however, they also shot up prices

China has made great headway but they are still sub par IMHO when it comes to specific items. I think in 10-20 years though they will most likely surpass the US when it comes to build quality but until then...

[mylydiamy]

There are tons of quality/reliable Chinese vendors as well as shitty ones. It is COMPLETELY stupid to say all Chinese produsts are shitty.

One example: I went to Home Depot 4 years ago to order wood exterior door. The price was almost 5K. I didn't order, came home, bought one from eBay (made in China) for 2K. It is as good as the 5K Home Depot door and after 4 years it is still as good as the first day.

How many of you know that half of the parts in your expensive Sony TV are made in China???

Pretty much everything you use in your daily life has a piece/ingredient/part made in China.

[335fourdoor]

Originally Posted by iNam

woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!

who told you payless made in US?

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by 335fourdoor

who told you payless made in US?

i dont even think i was made in the usa

[Kensta335]

Originally Posted by iNam

woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

people on this forum are morons. They know nothing of QC and ISO. Regardless, people forget about how in the 70s japanese cars would break down and were inferior compared to what the US offered. Show me one japanese car made in the 70s thats still running on the roads today. I can show you dozens of american made muscle thats still running strong. THe japanese drastically learned/improved upon their QC standards in the late 80s/early 90s. Today, their quality/reliability is second to none in the automotive industry.

China has recently stepped up their game in regards to building quality parts. 5-10 years ago they would just try to get a product out to make money for dirt cheap. Today? They have greatly improved their products, however they still refuse to use any standard (ISO) to follow up and enforce QC guidelines, hence why 90% of replica items from China either dont fit, or break prematurely or never last as long as the real thing. As the chinese products improved in relibility and quality however, they also shot up prices

China has made great headway but they are still sub par IMHO when it comes to specific items. I think in 10-20 years though they will most likely surpass the US when it comes to build quality but until then...

I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.

[brianhn1]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.

There is a difference where a US company creates their own manufacturing facilities in China to use their labor compared to a company who subcontracts to another company in China.

[easy2speed]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.

We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.

[Topless 335i]

Originally Posted by easy2speed

We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.

lmao

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by easy2speed

We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.

why is it so bothersome to you? That's my call ...i can list a jet ...who cares. I listed so that someone who is looking to sell can contact me...I have done so on other forums too...

why do you list all the mods then? ..just want to show off your fast car right??..lol