E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-23-2009, 12:04 PM   #23
ar design
 
ar design's Avatar
 
Drives: '86 325ES+S50, '01 TT QC
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 4,408
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ar design Send a message via MSN to ar design Send a message via Yahoo to ar design
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
The welds look great to me and they dont go through that much stress within the small area they comprise of. These pipes are not flexing in and out inches. I really wish you would stop bashing Vk's downpipes it does not make you our your company look good. I have nothing against your company and can not see why you are making attacks against vince. If you remember these pipes used to cost 550+ and the only reason they are so cheap is because he is selling them in batches of 50. Good luck to you and your company and keep to your own buisness please.
I was addressing your point about weight being the issue. I didnt see an attack on Vince anywhere, did you?

How can you see the quality of a weld when it has been ground down and polished? The only welds that can be seen are on the flanges. Which, IMO, look somewhat cold.

FWIW, most people in the industry would consider thousands of cycles of temperature swings of 1000+ degrees Fahrenheit, and massive amounts of vibration, a lot of stress. Not sure what your definition is?
ar design is offline   United_States
0
      09-23-2009, 12:08 PM   #24
ridin135
Colonel
 
Drives: 991 C2S
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Greenville

Posts: 2,228
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I was addressing your point about weight being the issue. I didnt see an attack on Vince anywhere, did you?

FWIW, most people in the industry would consider temperature swings of 1000+ degrees Fahrenheit, and massive amounts of vibration, a lot of stress.
Its all relative and depends on what you are talking about. But no that would not be considered alot of stress for an exhaust manifold or downpipes these variations are on all cars. I have had ebay headers on my previous e46 for 4 years with no problems what so ever. When those came out companies like yourself and other na sayers were all saying they were crap and they would fail. Those headers also had alot more welds/bends.
ridin135 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 12:09 PM   #25
ar design
 
ar design's Avatar
 
Drives: '86 325ES+S50, '01 TT QC
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 4,408
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ar design Send a message via MSN to ar design Send a message via Yahoo to ar design
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
Its all relative and depends on what you are talking about. But no that would not be considered alot of stress for an exhaust manifold or downpipes these variations are on all cars.
We will have to agree to disagree, then.
ar design is offline   United_States
0
      09-23-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

this is turning out pretty interesting i love the price of the vk pipes i just want know what is the difference i must say with the advancements in the u.s. vs china i can see why that would be a decent arguement but i would like to know facts as I DO NOT KNOW.
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
      09-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #27
Craig@SupremePower
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Craig@SupremePower's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 Dodge Durango R/T
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 75,000
iTrader: (14)

Haven't seen the VK's in person to compare but the AR Design units are top notch quality...
__________________
Craig@SupremePower is offline   United_States
0
      09-23-2009, 12:32 PM   #28
blisstik
Major
 
blisstik's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
This thread is so LOL. Why are you guys having political issues with downpipes? I don't even have DPs and by judging the photos, specs, and weld, I would definitely go with AR. The price is a lot more but the quality looks a lot better. Tell me if ARs price is close to VKs, would you still choose VKs? I think I've made my point.

Just take a look at the exhausts market. It's the same thing, some costs more than others and there's a reason why.

Mods: please close the thread or move it. Should be filed under "Political Issues".
__________________
blisstik is offline   No_Country
0
      09-23-2009, 12:45 PM   #29
335e92tx
Major
 
335e92tx's Avatar
 
Drives: 07-335e92 - monaco blue
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,261
iTrader: (2)

Its not my job to keep US employees working. I want value for my money.

Isn't it the age old moto if they can't compete they should not be in business?
__________________
JBSPEED|MIRO-M6 reps|BMS JB3 V2.0 & DCI |VK Motorwerks DPs|BSH Oil Catch Can |Wavetrac |ETS IC
replacement FP #3 installed on 11/18 @43K - probably more sig updates to follow :/
335e92tx is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 12:46 PM   #30
vbmw335
Second Lieutenant
 
vbmw335's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the moon

Posts: 263
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhn1 View Post
For every Chinese made product we buy, a US worker loses their job.
Do you have data to support that statement? I have my own company where some out sourced products has helped me save costs and hire more workers as business grows. Have you thought about that scenario?
__________________
335i coupe Procede
700 HP EPL Tuned Porsche 911 Turbo
E46 M3 SMG
BMW X5 4.8 is
vbmw335 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 12:54 PM   #31
Bomis
Captain
 
Bomis's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sweden

Posts: 992
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
One can tell a *lot* from the pics, if you know what to look for. I am going to snag a set, and I will post up some comparo pics. I'd welcome any constructive criticism of our product - I always am looking for ways to improve our product and process.
+1000 could not have said it better my self....thanks!
__________________


EURO E92 M3 2008 6MT Interlagos ///Fully Loaded! Evolve-R ECU Flash/Gintani Sport Exhaust/MS Stg2 Intake Kit/H&R Springs/MS 18/15 mm spacers/Bmw Perf. Grills/Gloss Black side gills/LCI Tails/LUX V3's/RD license plate leds
Bomis is offline   Sweden
0
      09-23-2009, 01:26 PM   #32
brianhn1
Slow Mo
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US

Posts: 522
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
Do you have data to support that statement? I have my own company where some out sourced products has helped me save costs and hire more workers as business grows. Have you thought about that scenario?
Yes it happens. My business buys parts from all over the place: US, China, India, etc. I could tell you, in the case of at least a dozen of my vendors, that if I decided to buy a Chinese made product over a comparable US product, that US vendor would go out of business thereby displacing the workers. We buy that much volume and we demand quality.

Going to Asian labor doesn't necessarily equate to just cost savings. I changed from an Italian made part for an Indian made one. Saved me 20% in cost but the quality of the product is 20% worse. Quality control from India, China, etc. is typically spotty at times. With the increased failure rate of the India made part, I have to replace them more and my 20% margin increase is becomes smaller.
__________________
'15 M4 AW/SO, ED 7/1/14, US 8/4/14, PU 8/18/14
'13 X5 35i, '08 335i
Motorcycles: '12 R1200GS, '10 F800GS, '74 R90S, 09' Ducati Monster 696, '10 HD V-Rod

brianhn1 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 01:27 PM   #33
iNam
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern VA/Washington DC

Posts: 132
iTrader: (6)

woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!
iNam is offline   No_Country
0
      09-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #34
vbmw335
Second Lieutenant
 
vbmw335's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the moon

Posts: 263
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhn1 View Post
Yes it happens. My business buys parts from all over the place: US, China, India, etc. I could tell you, in the case of at least a dozen of my vendors, that if I decided to buy a Chinese made product over a comparable US product, that US vendor would go out of business thereby displacing the workers. We buy that much volume and we demand quality.

Going to Asian labor doesn't necessarily equate to just cost savings. I changed from an Italian made part for an Indian made one. Saved me 20% in cost but the quality of the product is 20% worse. Quality control from India, China, etc. is typically spotty at times. With the increased failure rate of the India made part, I have to replace them more and my 20% margin increase is becomes smaller.
Maybe its time to find a good India/china vendor? ..what is your competition doing? I had similar experiences , its all in the due dilligence. There are ton of bad companies and some very good ones. Now that;s what takes time...we hired a third party quality firm which does dock audits and its working great for us so far.
__________________
335i coupe Procede
700 HP EPL Tuned Porsche 911 Turbo
E46 M3 SMG
BMW X5 4.8 is
vbmw335 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 01:56 PM   #35
pdjafari
Colonel
 
pdjafari's Avatar
 
Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

Posts: 2,402
iTrader: (5)

people on this forum are morons. They know nothing of QC and ISO. Regardless, people forget about how in the 70s japanese cars would break down and were inferior compared to what the US offered. Show me one japanese car made in the 70s thats still running on the roads today. I can show you dozens of american made muscle thats still running strong. THe japanese drastically learned/improved upon their QC standards in the late 80s/early 90s. Today, their quality/reliability is second to none in the automotive industry.

China has recently stepped up their game in regards to building quality parts. 5-10 years ago they would just try to get a product out to make money for dirt cheap. Today? They have greatly improved their products, however they still refuse to use any standard (ISO) to follow up and enforce QC guidelines, hence why 90% of replica items from China either dont fit, or break prematurely or never last as long as the real thing. As the chinese products improved in relibility and quality however, they also shot up prices

China has made great headway but they are still sub par IMHO when it comes to specific items. I think in 10-20 years though they will most likely surpass the US when it comes to build quality but until then...
pdjafari is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:02 PM   #36
mylydiamy
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 335i e93 convertible
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 512
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via Yahoo to mylydiamy
There are tons of quality/reliable Chinese vendors as well as shitty ones. It is COMPLETELY stupid to say all Chinese produsts are shitty.

One example: I went to Home Depot 4 years ago to order wood exterior door. The price was almost 5K. I didn't order, came home, bought one from eBay (made in China) for 2K. It is as good as the 5K Home Depot door and after 4 years it is still as good as the first day.

How many of you know that half of the parts in your expensive Sony TV are made in China???

Pretty much everything you use in your daily life has a piece/ingredient/part made in China.
mylydiamy is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:07 PM   #37
335fourdoor
Captain
 
Drives: 335 e90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west

Posts: 671
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iNam View Post
woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!
who told you payless made in US?
335fourdoor is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:11 PM   #38
Kevin@AKMotorwerk
General
 
Kevin@AKMotorwerk's Avatar
 
Drives: THE GUY YOU LOVE TO HATE
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hillsborough, nj

Posts: 28,154
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335fourdoor View Post
who told you payless made in US?
i dont even think i was made in the usa
Kevin@AKMotorwerk is offline   United_States
0
      09-23-2009, 02:11 PM   #39
Kensta335
Brigadier General
 
Kensta335's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal 626

Posts: 3,633
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iNam View Post
woah..my NIKE basketball shoes are made in vietnam?! im going to start wearing payless from now..im sure theyre american made! USA ! USA!
Kensta335 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:18 PM   #40
vbmw335
Second Lieutenant
 
vbmw335's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the moon

Posts: 263
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
people on this forum are morons. They know nothing of QC and ISO. Regardless, people forget about how in the 70s japanese cars would break down and were inferior compared to what the US offered. Show me one japanese car made in the 70s thats still running on the roads today. I can show you dozens of american made muscle thats still running strong. THe japanese drastically learned/improved upon their QC standards in the late 80s/early 90s. Today, their quality/reliability is second to none in the automotive industry.

China has recently stepped up their game in regards to building quality parts. 5-10 years ago they would just try to get a product out to make money for dirt cheap. Today? They have greatly improved their products, however they still refuse to use any standard (ISO) to follow up and enforce QC guidelines, hence why 90% of replica items from China either dont fit, or break prematurely or never last as long as the real thing. As the chinese products improved in relibility and quality however, they also shot up prices

China has made great headway but they are still sub par IMHO when it comes to specific items. I think in 10-20 years though they will most likely surpass the US when it comes to build quality but until then...
I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.
__________________
335i coupe Procede
700 HP EPL Tuned Porsche 911 Turbo
E46 M3 SMG
BMW X5 4.8 is
vbmw335 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:29 PM   #41
brianhn1
Slow Mo
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US

Posts: 522
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.
There is a difference where a US company creates their own manufacturing facilities in China to use their labor compared to a company who subcontracts to another company in China.
__________________
'15 M4 AW/SO, ED 7/1/14, US 8/4/14, PU 8/18/14
'13 X5 35i, '08 335i
Motorcycles: '12 R1200GS, '10 F800GS, '74 R90S, 09' Ducati Monster 696, '10 HD V-Rod

brianhn1 is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:31 PM   #42
easy2speed
Second Lieutenant
 
easy2speed's Avatar
 
Drives: 14 GT-R and 997 Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montgomery, AL

Posts: 212
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
I worked for one of the largest consumer products company in USA. I can tell you the stuff made at our plants were sub par , expensive , time consuming...later we moved most economy products to china and high value products to Korea and we were doing much better.

The USA quality was bad because of older tools and equipment.

The cost of re tooling our plants was so high and we couldnt justify doing so with fluctuating product volumes, China was out best bet , they were hungry for our business ,they built our tools and amortized the capital costs...and offered great product that met our standards.

We are the ones who set the quality standards ...if they dont meet them .,..we dont buy them.

So saying all Chinese products are shitty in 2009 is pretty ignorant.



We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.
__________________
'14 GT-R
'07 997 Turbo 6mt - 688whp and 761wtq
'01 996 Turbo 6mt
'14 CTS-V Sedan
'13 X6 3.5i
easy2speed is offline  
0
      09-23-2009, 02:44 PM   #43
Topless 335i
Captain
 
Topless 335i's Avatar
 
Drives: AW E93 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 984
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by easy2speed View Post
We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.
lmao
Topless 335i is offline   Armenia
0
      09-23-2009, 02:45 PM   #44
vbmw335
Second Lieutenant
 
vbmw335's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the moon

Posts: 263
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by easy2speed View Post
We all know that you are a VK fanboi, so we look past that. Why do you have a car listed in your sig that you don't own? Maybe I should start listing every car I own in my sig to look rich on the internet.
why is it so bothersome to you? That's my call ...i can list a jet ...who cares. I listed so that someone who is looking to sell can contact me...I have done so on other forums too...

why do you list all the mods then? ..just want to show off your fast car right??..lol
__________________
335i coupe Procede
700 HP EPL Tuned Porsche 911 Turbo
E46 M3 SMG
BMW X5 4.8 is
vbmw335 is offline  
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST