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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what



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      09-23-2009, 03:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by brianhn1 View Post
There is a difference where a US company creates their own manufacturing facilities in China to use their labor compared to a company who subcontracts to another company in China.
I meant we worked with a fully independent Chinese company.
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      09-23-2009, 03:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mylydiamy View Post
Pretty much everything you use in your daily life has a piece/ingredient/part made in China.
Yep, ingredients like lead paint and magnets. Yum.

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Originally Posted by brianhn1 View Post
There is a difference where a US company creates their own manufacturing facilities in China to use their labor compared to a company who subcontracts to another company in China.
Yes, but that doesnt automatically increase/maintain QC on production. In the end whomever is producing these items under their name must be diligent about their QC process. It doesnt matter what country it is being produced in, what matters the most is their local QC process. This can be a difficult thing to regulate when there are thousands of miles of ocean, time zones and language barriers between manufacturing and corporate HQ.
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      09-23-2009, 04:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
why is it so bothersome to you? That's my call ...i can list a jet ...who cares. I listed so that someone who is looking to sell can contact me...I have done so on other forums too...

why do you list all the mods then? ..just want to show off your fast car right??..lol
I just think it's funny. I used to sell high end cars and the people that buy F430's don't "look" for them. They just decide they want one, and go write a check for it.
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      09-23-2009, 04:12 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by easy2speed View Post
I just think it's funny. I used to sell high end cars and the people that buy F430's don't "look" for them. They just decide they want one, and go write a check for it.
Or maybe he's smart and realizes that he can get a F430 with less than 8k miles for 30 grand off...sure, you can go and write a check right then and there, but why not just 'look' for a little longer and go with something thats 30 grand off
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      09-23-2009, 04:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ano0oj View Post
Or maybe he's smart and realizes that he can get a F430 with less than 8k miles for 30 grand off...sure, you can go and write a check right then and there, but why not just 'look' for a little longer and go with something thats 30 grand off

We sold exotics for cheaper than any one else, but we were in Alabama. We would sell them all over the world. We would sell them for very small margains, but to only posers who could barely afford it. The really wealthy buyers would just write a check and have one delivered because looking for one would take more time than it was worth. We never sold to these people because we were too far away and these buyers do not shop around.


By the way, an F430 with 8k miles is like a 335 with 50k miles. They go substantially cheaper. We had a few cars with just over 1,000 miles and had a few customers asking why they had so many miles for a 1-2 year old car.


Saving $30,000 to these buyers is like one of us saving $300 by waiting for a month to find a good deal.
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      09-23-2009, 04:48 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ano0oj View Post
Or maybe he's smart and realizes that he can get a F430 with less than 8k miles for 30 grand off...sure, you can go and write a check right then and there, but why not just 'look' for a little longer and go with something thats 30 grand off
I work hard for my money and really cannot write checks like that. I looked 8 months before i found my perfect 911 turbo , you know they have rms , 2nd gear pop out etc...too many bad apples.

I am trying to find a under 5k black or a Grigio Titanio Metallic f430,F1 with certain options ...my local dealer had a red one with 10 k for 140K ...That's too high ..I think.

So I am not in a hurry ...I bought my 911 from a forum member who had great history...so I am hoping for something similar. I have noticed that a lot of Exotic car owners have a 335i in their stable ...and this is a good place to be.

Plus I keep thinking about Gallardos too ...Just for their turbo mod capability (Uunderground )..but cant forget my F430 test drives...it was an event.
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      09-23-2009, 05:31 PM   #51
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The sad part of all this, is the fact of all these unions in America creating so much overhead that the cost of producing merchandise is off the charts and for a company to stay competitive, they have to outsource the work to China...Although its not fair to the American manufacturers, this is life...Quality is almost if not the same as if it was produce in the states...You would be surprised that even though many items that you purchased says "MADE IN USA", well in fact it isn't....Having products made in China in no way makes it inferior because of quality materials used, in fact its the labor thats cheap, so by saying that anything made in China is cheap, you have no clue to what you are speaking off.....
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      09-23-2009, 05:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
I work hard for my money and really cannot write checks like that. I looked 8 months before i found my perfect 911 turbo , you know they have rms , 2nd gear pop out etc...too many bad apples.

I am trying to find a under 5k black or a Grigio Titanio Metallic f430,F1 with certain options ...my local dealer had a red one with 10 k for 140K ...That's too high ..I think.

So I am not in a hurry ...I bought my 911 from a forum member who had great history...so I am hoping for something similar. I have noticed that a lot of Exotic car owners have a 335i in their stable ...and this is a good place to be.

Plus I keep thinking about Gallardos too ...Just for their turbo mod capability (Uunderground )..but cant forget my F430 test drives...it was an event.
Fair enough. I think you will want the Gallardo if you are going to mod it. The F430 is superior stock for stock. My goal is to get a TT Gallardo, but that is a long way away.
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      09-23-2009, 05:55 PM   #53
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Ahh - the MIC debate. This article is very timely, it should give a pause anybody putting cheap rubber on their precious bimmers: MIC tires
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      09-23-2009, 05:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
You would be surprised that even though many items that you purchased says "MADE IN USA", well in fact it isn't.....
This is illegal, if in fact it was not MADE in the USA but states as such. However MADE and ASSEMBLED mean two completely different things...
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      09-23-2009, 07:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by brianhn1 View Post
For every Chinese made product we buy, a US worker loses their job.
An overpaid US worker you mean. If he would accept the normal pay for a job "anyone can be trained to do" he would still have a job.
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      09-23-2009, 07:20 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklocust View Post
This thread is so LOL. Why are you guys having political issues with downpipes? I don't even have DPs and by judging the photos, specs, and weld, I would definitely go with AR. The price is a lot more but the quality looks a lot better. Tell me if ARs price is close to VKs, would you still choose VKs? I think I've made my point.

Just take a look at the exhausts market. It's the same thing, some costs more than others and there's a reason why.

Mods: please close the thread or move it. Should be filed under "Political Issues".
LOL because I strirred the pot.....This has been festering for years everytime a job goes overseas
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      09-23-2009, 07:23 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
The sad part of all this, is the fact of all these unions in America creating so much overhead that the cost of producing merchandise is off the charts and for a company to stay competitive, they have to outsource the work to China...Although its not fair to the American manufacturers, this is life...Quality is almost if not the same as if it was produce in the states...You would be surprised that even though many items that you purchased says "MADE IN USA", well in fact it isn't....Having products made in China in no way makes it inferior because of quality materials used, in fact its the labor thats cheap, so by saying that anything made in China is cheap, you have no clue to what you are speaking off.....

This is a lot of the problem for vendors and why we are paying so much for performace parts on our BMWs. VK seems to have found a chinese connection and thus a better price for labor allowing him to sell at the price we want to buy at. Thus the vendors are now bickering over VK.
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      09-23-2009, 07:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easy2speed View Post
Fair enough. I think you will want the Gallardo if you are going to mod it. The F430 is superior stock for stock. My goal is to get a TT Gallardo, but that is a long way away.
I want the Gallardo but for power levels 911 Turbo is getting better and better ...I can get to 1000 + Hp level now and be realiable. So its a tough call...Ferrari is more of an emotional car ...or should i say it just astounding high revving etc.. every time i drive it. Just different cars.

I just checked another car today .Did the PPI the car suffered frame damage. it was neatly concealed.
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      09-23-2009, 08:07 PM   #59
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Holy shit, I go away for one day and all I log on to see that we were to talk of the town.

Just to make things clear the downpipes are the only item we made in China. However, they were inspected at the port there prior to shipment and then tested here again in the states. We still have high quality standards. What does a customer have to worry about they come with a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects, something goes wrong ship them back we replace them, end of story.


The FMIC and oil cooler are made in the US. The oil cooler has a Derale cooling core with the louvers and other components made in Addison, IL. The FMIC use to use an ETS core that was purchased from Mexico. We would have continued to use the ETS core but they decided that they wanted to do it on there own and even raised the price on the core. So we have now sourced a company out of Japan that makes the core. The end tanks are made in Addison, IL and also welded there. I support my local businesses and I am all for boosting the economy however, trying to deny globalization is just plain dumb. Everything you have probably has a component if not just the raw material coming from another nation. Remember the saying Money makes the world go around!


The e90 community is the biggest winners. They get options. Think about it other down pipes were $800-900 a set before VK's $300 set now they are $500-700 people are still makeing the profit margins but it goes to show how much over charging was going on. Then think about the FMIC's they were all around $1200 at one point, after we put ours out for $580 they are down to $700-800 range now.

This is the beauty of competition.
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      09-23-2009, 08:32 PM   #60
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Vince U Da Man!
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      09-23-2009, 08:38 PM   #61
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Some companies just try to put food on the table and have some for reserves, while others want to own supermarkets! Great Job VK....waiting on some funds for your FMIC...I got your email..!
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      09-23-2009, 09:04 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks View Post
Holy shit, I go away for one day and all I log on to see that we were to talk of the town.

Just to make things clear the downpipes are the only item we made in China. However, they were inspected at the port there prior to shipment and then tested here again in the states. We still have high quality standards. What does a customer have to worry about they come with a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects, something goes wrong ship them back we replace them, end of story.


The FMIC and oil cooler are made in the US. The oil cooler has a Derale cooling core with the louvers and other components made in Addison, IL. The FMIC use to use an ETS core that was purchased from Mexico. We would have continued to use the ETS core but they decided that they wanted to do it on there own and even raised the price on the core. So we have now sourced a company out of Japan that makes the core. The end tanks are made in Addison, IL and also welded there. I support my local businesses and I am all for boosting the economy however, trying to deny globalization is just plain dumb. Everything you have probably has a component if not just the raw material coming from another nation. Remember the saying Money makes the world go around!


The e90 community is the biggest winners. They get options. Think about it other down pipes were $800-900 a set before VK's $300 set now they are $500-700 people are still makeing the profit margins but it goes to show how much over charging was going on. Then think about the FMIC's they were all around $1200 at one point, after we put ours out for $580 they are down to $700-800 range now.

This is the beauty of competition.
Vince,

I'm looking over your invoices and I see we quoted you the same price that you paid before. I'm not sure how we "Raised" the price on you. We started selling our own intercooler, but you knew that up front. I'm curious to see the results of the new core, since it looks like your still using test data from our core.

You are doing a great job, but price isn't everything. I think people should look at that when purchasing a front mount.

We go into great detail when we build each one of our products. I will attach pictures on the bottom of the thread.

We do a couple things that most competitors don't want to spend the time or money on.
  • We hand port each inlet and outlet to give max flow. Most manufactures weld on a tube and you can feel the inside of the tube inside the end tank, this causes turbulence that is not necessary.
  • We weld the inside and the outside of the end tank for maximum durability.
  • Intercoolers are pressure checked at 35psi before shipment.
  • We jig each unit before shipment
  • LIFETIME warranty against manufacturer defects and cracking
Another thing why our intercooler is priced higher then $500 is we provide a pipe for the cold side that removes the restrictive pipe that BMW put in place when they designed this kit.


This pipe has a ton of indents that restrict flow.


We also replace the pipe on the passenger side with all the bellows, this creates turbulence in the system that is not needed.


The end result is a product that is substantially more efficient then the stock unit.

Intercooler Differences



eBay Core (This is what most cheap intercoolers are made from)


ETS Core (See the internal density difference?)
Which one do you think will dissipate heat better? You will also see how the ebay core (which is a very reputable vendors core) has slag/drop through on the inside as well as a straight through fin design.
Here you can see how we port and weld the inside of each end tank. This tank was cut off one of my intercoolers on the shelf.







The one good thing about these threads are the customers become educated on the parts they are purchasing.

If anyone has questions, let me know!

Thanks,

Michael
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      09-23-2009, 09:19 PM   #63
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Interesting. Not the first time the truth has been "tweaked"..... or avoided. Thanks for the info Michael
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      09-23-2009, 09:38 PM   #64
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ar design - you rant and rave a lot about the quality of your product - then why do your welds look like this?

the bead isn't consistent in size, and judging by the variations in color of the surrounding metal it seems as if the heat applied wasn't consistent either...

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      09-23-2009, 09:43 PM   #65
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Pretty simple, if the VK DPs suck, we will find out relatively quickly. If they are poorly designed, we will find out quickly. Let's sit and wait! But to be honest, $350 shipped for a set of catless downpipes that will perform as well and built as well as the ones that cost double that amount, the consumer is the winner.
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      09-23-2009, 09:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
ar design - you rant and rave a lot about the quality of your product - then why do your welds look like this?

the bead isn't consistent in size, and judging by the variations in color of the surrounding metal it seems as if the heat applied wasn't consistent either...

That looks like a lot of labor in those welds?
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