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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what



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      09-23-2009, 09:03 PM   #67
Vince@ V K Motorwerks
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Mike, I remember talking to you and you were not willing to give me better prices on the regardless how much we purchase. Also when i asked you for some more units you told me that you would be charging me more since you had to take them out of your "stock."

Your right price is not everything. So we will also offer a lifetime warranty against any manufacturing defects.

Andrew, get a life. You like everyone to belive that making a downpipe or welding is the same as building a F16 figher jet. I love the fact that you have to keep coming at me to prove your shit is better...do this how about your put your time and energy into finding ways to reduce cost so that you can actually compete. Nice welds by the way.
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      09-23-2009, 09:20 PM   #68
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^^^ lol. Addison whoop whoop. Everyone buy from vk so my property value goes up
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      09-23-2009, 09:22 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
ar design - you rant and rave a lot about the quality of your product - then why do your welds look like this?

the bead isn't consistent in size, and judging by the variations in color of the surrounding metal it seems as if the heat applied wasn't consistent either...


So much for AR quality rant...

I know you will come back with some great justifications ...because you are the weld guru right.
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      09-23-2009, 09:42 PM   #70
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FWIW, that is a SUPER old picture of a prototype. I have not had time to update the website.

This is what our downpipes look like: http://www.**********s.com/AR_Design_Downpipes_N54.htm

We have established our reputation on the basis of our quality. You guys are making me LOL Great job deflecting Vince. You still haven't backed all your talk up
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      09-23-2009, 09:44 PM   #71
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those look better - what one would expect considering the price....

how about some pics of the welds along the length of the pipe?

thanks.

fwiw - one would think that representing your product and its quality accurately on your web site would be at the TOP of your priority list...
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      09-23-2009, 09:46 PM   #72
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Middle pic is along pipe. I can take more tomorrow if you would like.
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      09-23-2009, 09:54 PM   #73
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Middle pic is along pipe. I can take more tomorrow if you would like.
yes please. and please post pics inside the mouth of the vband side...
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      09-23-2009, 10:06 PM   #74
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Ill see what I can dig up for you tomorrow! At home now, I was using LogMeIn to snag those pics from my work PC.
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      09-23-2009, 10:40 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
FWIW, that is a SUPER old picture of a prototype. I have not had time to update the website.

This is what our downpipes look like: http://www.**********s.com/AR_Design_Downpipes_N54.htm

We have established our reputation on the basis of our quality. You guys are making me LOL Great job deflecting Vince. You still haven't backed all your talk up
Andrew, why is it that you always think i need to prove something to you? You are not my customer and you are obviously going to be biased over everything I do. So whats the point? I have never seen any other vendor so desprate to discredit another vendor. Thanks for the compliment on deflecting and derailing threads, I learned it from you.

By the way bro, I proved what I had to prove to the people that matter, those are my customers, all 90 of them who purchased the downpipes.
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      09-23-2009, 10:50 PM   #76
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Guys - I'm a metallurgical engineer and I do materials testings for a living. Subtle differences in heat treating, welding, and materials make huge differences in performance and lifetime. I'll refrain from commenting on the initial anti-union comments, however, be a little careful with the pro-China made argument. Yes, some things are good. Other things... not so much. At the end of the day, you generally get what you pay for.
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      09-23-2009, 10:57 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks View Post
Andrew, why is it that you always think i need to prove something to you? You are not my customer and you are obviously going to be biased over everything I do. So whats the point? I have never seen any other vendor so desprate to discredit another vendor. Thanks for the compliment on deflecting and derailing threads, I learned it from you.

By the way bro, I proved what I had to prove to the people that matter, those are my customers, all 90 of them who purchased the downpipes.
You've made a number of claims on here. You have yet to provide any data to back up your claims. End of story.
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      09-23-2009, 11:00 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortlandDoug View Post
you generally get what you pay for.
I have no bone to pick, but would you say the same thing about American automobile industry? You get what you pay for?

The discussion is not about being "pro-China", rather suggestions were made that everything made in China = Crap, everything made in USA=quality.
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      09-23-2009, 11:00 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
You've made a number of claims on here. You have yet to provide any data to back up your claims. End of story.
To who? you? Ha! Your right end of story.

Good luck buddy.
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      09-23-2009, 11:00 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETS Michael View Post
I'm curious to see the results of the new core, since it looks like your still using test data from our core.
Anyone else smell something burning?
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      09-23-2009, 11:02 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks View Post
To who? you? Ha! Your right end of story.

Good luck buddy.
Then you can expect me to keep calling you out on your false claims
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      09-23-2009, 11:23 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
I have no bone to pick, but would you say the same thing about American automobile industry? You get what you pay for?

The discussion is not about being "pro-China", rather suggestions were made that everything made in China = Crap, everything made in USA=quality.
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      09-23-2009, 11:23 PM   #83
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With all the posts that I read about VK and "oh they make their stuff in China" and "it is probably poor quality...... THIS IS BS. VK seems to make a good product (in China) and does not POACH us with the BMW TAX.....so what is the problem? I can't wait to see their price point on exhaust. About time a vendor broke ranks and stopped ripping us off!

Why are people whining? This is exactly what we all wanted.....Good products at a good price. WAKE UP and Put Up or Shut up. Pay the American made UNION luxury tax if you want....but I'm not. Union workers are nothing but guys off the street that anyone could train to do a job....then they unionize and demand "super" pay for a job anyone could do...and then get pissed when jobs are moved overseas...gee I wonder why?. BS...what happened to getting an education to get ahead in life? Oh wait.....just join the UNION and POACH us some more... No thanks I'll buy from China.

Unfortunately, the Chinese generally make crap that is filling our landfills at a faster rate than necessary. It's the fault of the consumer wanting cheap deals. With cheap prices comes poor quality inputs. Not necessarily poor quality trades. The Chinese could make top quality items but generally don't. Corners are cut. You pay for what you get. The Chinese have the market on cheap made products with cheap quality inputs for consumers that want to pay the cheapest price.

Take for example most products you buy that are made in Japan. Japan generally makes very high quality products since their inputs are of high quality. I have a calculator made in Japan that i've used almost every day for over 20 years and the keys look new and i can see the numbers. Try that on a Dell keyboard made in China. You'll have to replace the Dell keyboard after a couple years since the images on the keys wear out. That is an example of wanting cheap priced items and getting poor quality inputs. If i could plug the old Unisys keyboards made in North American years ago into my work computers I'd be buying those used since they last forever.

Go to a computer store that sells Sony and have a close look at their laptop made in Japan vs. one they make in China. Sure, the price of the Japanese made one is double the price but the China made one has very low quality inputs to match the price that consumers are willing to pay.

An example of good quality inputs in a product made in Canada was back when Canada had a shoe manufacturing industry in Ontario. It was well known in the world for the craftsmanship and the quality inputs. Yes, the price was high but you paid for what you got. I still have a pair of hiking boots from 1979 that I use every winter to today and you can see the quality last. Tread that lasts, thick sewing strings, synthetic material that lasts decades without decomposing. I bought a pair of shoes made in China and they lasted a season and then went in the landfill.
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      09-24-2009, 12:01 AM   #84
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this thread is so much fun to see vince and andrew go at it ahah im enjoying it
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      09-24-2009, 12:01 AM   #85
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who you guys rooting for lol
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      09-24-2009, 01:22 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks View Post
Mike, I remember talking to you and you were not willing to give me better prices on the regardless how much we purchase. Also when i asked you for some more units you told me that you would be charging me more since you had to take them out of your "stock."

Your right price is not everything. So we will also offer a lifetime warranty against any manufacturing defects.

Andrew, get a life. You like everyone to belive that making a downpipe or welding is the same as building a F16 figher jet. I love the fact that you have to keep coming at me to prove your shit is better...do this how about your put your time and energy into finding ways to reduce cost so that you can actually compete. Nice welds by the way.
I looked over the invoice again and it looks like you ordered 20 units, so we gave you a bulk discount. We also had to do a special order so we didn't deplete our inventory. Remember... We are a retail shop as well. You then asked if you could get (2) units, so we quoted you the same price you paid for non bulk before. I also told you, if you wanted to order qty, we could get you the same discount as before, but we need to know a couple weeks in advance.

For the record, I have no problems with Vince or VK, He is a great guy to deal with and I hope we can do business in the future. I just wanted to clear our name from looking like we did some shady business practice. I wish Vince the best on his endeavor. If he needs an intercooler in the future, we are more then happy to help!

We are very customer oriented and try to offer the best service in the industry. It's 11:30pm at night and I'm still responding to messages

Thanks,

Michael
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      09-24-2009, 01:54 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwmike View Post
Unfortunately, the Chinese generally make crap that is filling our landfills at a faster rate than necessary. It's the fault of the consumer wanting cheap deals. With cheap prices comes poor quality inputs. Not necessarily poor quality trades. The Chinese could make top quality items but generally don't. Corners are cut. You pay for what you get. The Chinese have the market on cheap made products with cheap quality inputs for consumers that want to pay the cheapest price.

Take for example most products you buy that are made in Japan. Japan generally makes very high quality products since their inputs are of high quality. I have a calculator made in Japan that i've used almost every day for over 20 years and the keys look new and i can see the numbers. Try that on a Dell keyboard made in China. You'll have to replace the Dell keyboard after a couple years since the images on the keys wear out. That is an example of wanting cheap priced items and getting poor quality inputs. If i could plug the old Unisys keyboards made in North American years ago into my work computers I'd be buying those used since they last forever.

Go to a computer store that sells Sony and have a close look at their laptop made in Japan vs. one they make in China. Sure, the price of the Japanese made one is double the price but the China made one has very low quality inputs to match the price that consumers are willing to pay.

An example of good quality inputs in a product made in Canada was back when Canada had a shoe manufacturing industry in Ontario. It was well known in the world for the craftsmanship and the quality inputs. Yes, the price was high but you paid for what you got. I still have a pair of hiking boots from 1979 that I use every winter to today and you can see the quality last. Tread that lasts, thick sewing strings, synthetic material that lasts decades without decomposing. I bought a pair of shoes made in China and they lasted a season and then went in the landfill.
+ like i always said you GET what you PAY for....end of discussion...
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      09-24-2009, 02:15 AM   #88
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Seems like Vince and Andrew are the new Shiv and Terry lols.
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