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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what



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      09-25-2009, 05:53 PM   #177
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Can VK confirm or deny that the their FMIC that we are buying in the recent GB is not the same as the one used for the performance data shown at the beginning of the GB thread?
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      09-27-2009, 12:31 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Where did i say the pipes will keep failing? The VK fan club needs to start reading the thread and stop inventing things I "said".

Like I said, You were doing your best to make it clear that the "Significant Quality Differences" will lead to the welds failing consistently on there pipes, but your expensive set of pipes and fittings will not. It's not like making downpipes on a car is something overly difficult.

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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
You can tell a lot about a weld from a picture - if you know what to look for. No need to see them in person to make the comments I made, and i stand by them as factual. Although, we are acquiring a set of VKs, and we will be able to give you even more info. I have stated what can be deduced from a picture. Some NDT testing may reveal more.
Once you do the testing on both pipes, you should share your results, but until then you should not bash competitors quality, when you have never had the product. You make it appear as if the welds are not exactly like the ones that you have on yours, they will fail. If that's the case, then why are custom exhaust shops able to make DP's for cars that will last and are mandrel bent for a reasonable price... You need to realize, some people on the forum worked in performance shops and you can't be condescending to people who understand the trade.

That being said, I will agree with you that there is a lot of crappy ebay and no name parts made in china, and I have had to deal with customers who wonder why there $300 turbo is failing after 1k miles. Its just like anything else, crappy american parts are junk, just like poor quality chinese parts is garbage as well. (think 1980's American car) Its not where it is made, its the quality that a company chooses to make.

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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I am having a hard time finding where I said Vince was lying. I asked him to back up his claims - which I believe to be false - and I'd be glad to be proven wrong.
I'm guessing you are talking about the test data from the intercooler that they released that originally used an ETS core, and then they switched to a japanese core?

I'm gonna add your quote to explain my original post here...

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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Interesting. Not the first time the truth has been "tweaked"..... or avoided. Thanks for the info Michael
Even if you are lacking in intelligence you should realize that calling out another vendor on this forum when you have no idea what you are talking about, and do not have both sides of the story is unethical to say the least... You are in no place to talk as your shady little company is advertising your downpipes on your website, and then you send a different version of your downpipes to customers... Maybe you should spend a little less time on the forums threadcrapping on others posts and update your website so people actually know what they are getting when spending $700 on your pair of 3 foot long pipes...
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FWIW, that is a SUPER old picture of a prototype. I have not had time to update the website.
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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
If you guys want to discuss the facts, feel free. Otherwise, please stop wasting my time, and forum bandwidth - and book yourself a spot on Oprahs couch.
WOW, you really think this is proper business etiquette to insult potential customers like this... Your company deserves to tank for this, and you should be even more ashamed of your actions. YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY FACTUAL MATERIAL TO THIS THREAD.... ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS PISS AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CANT COMPETE WITH VK... Get a life and stop being a troll in VK threads...
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      09-27-2009, 01:07 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
I just want to say that everyone on this board that has bought from AR Design will boldly say that Andrew is incredibly easy to work with and really cares about his customers. Whatever this thread is about, don't forget that Andrew/AR Design is not only known on the forum for extremely high quality downpipes but unmatched customer service.
You can say what you want. But he has been complete d-bag on this thread. He is representing his company very badly.

He should think twice about the way he conducts himself. Whether he believes or not, he can lose out on sales.
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      09-27-2009, 01:19 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
Like I said, You were doing your best to make it clear that the "Significant Quality Differences" will lead to the welds failing consistently on there pipes, but your expensive set of pipes and fittings will not. It's not like making downpipes on a car is something overly difficult.
No where did I say they would consistently fail. Learn how to read.

If it is so easy....feel free to swing by the shop some time. We'll see just how well you can fab and weld up a set for us

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Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
Once you do the testing on both pipes, you should share your results, but until then you should not bash competitors quality, when you have never had the product. You make it appear as if the welds are not exactly like the ones that you have on yours, they will fail. If that's the case, then why are custom exhaust shops able to make DP's for cars that will last and are mandrel bent for a reasonable price... You need to realize, some people on the forum worked in performance shops and you can't be condescending to people who understand the trade.

That being said, I will agree with you that there is a lot of crappy ebay and no name parts made in china, and I have had to deal with customers who wonder why there $300 turbo is failing after 1k miles. Its just like anything else, crappy american parts are junk, just like poor quality chinese parts is garbage as well. (think 1980's American car) Its not where it is made, its the quality that a company chooses to make.
We will certainly be sharing our findings.

If you had even the slightest clue as to what you are talking about, you could tell that our welds and fabrication are not even remotely similar, and not anywhere close to being in the same league.

Where have I been condescending to anyone? Are we even reading the same thread?!?
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Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
I'm guessing you are talking about the test data from the intercooler that they released that originally used an ETS core, and then they switched to a japanese core?

I'm gonna add your quote to explain my original post here...
I don't care if its made on the moon - that is not the issue - a bait and switch is a bait and switch.
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Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
Even if you are lacking in intelligence you should realize that calling out another vendor on this forum when you have no idea what you are talking about, and do not have both sides of the story is unethical to say the least... You are in no place to talk as your shady little company is advertising your downpipes on your website, and then you send a different version of your downpipes to customers... Maybe you should spend a little less time on the forums threadcrapping on others posts and update your website so people actually know what they are getting when spending $700 on your pair of 3 foot long pipes...
Pray, tell me, how do I have no idea what I am talking about?

So now, taking a product that has been extremely successful, and constantly improving it EVEN MORE makes us shady? Are you high out of your mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
WOW, you really think this is proper business etiquette to insult potential customers like this... Your company deserves to tank for this, and you should be even more ashamed of your actions. YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY FACTUAL MATERIAL TO THIS THREAD.... ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS PISS AND MOAN BECAUSE YOU CANT COMPETE WITH VK... Get a life and stop being a troll in VK threads...
If you actually read what I wrote, you would see plenty of factual material. You deserve to go back to elementary school - with a focus on learning how to read.

Last edited by ar design; 09-27-2009 at 01:37 AM.
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      09-27-2009, 01:25 AM   #181
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im with andrew on this lets wait and see what happens when the tests are out and are the fmic claims true because that was a mod i was interested in?
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      09-27-2009, 03:54 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
No where did I say they would consistently fail. Learn how to read.

If it is so easy....feel free to swing by the shop some time. We'll see just how well you can fab and weld up a set for us
I am by no means saying I am an an expert welder, but that was not my job at the shop. The welds on the "Prototype" DP's look like a high school shop class project.... The beads are inconsistent and the heat fluctuations are pretty piss poor from the look of the surrounding areas. Not exactly worthy of a $700 set of pipes for a BMW, and something a "Weld Guru" should be ashamed of presenting as his own work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
We will certainly be sharing our findings.

If you had even the slightest clue as to what you are talking about, you could tell that our welds and fabrication are not even remotely similar, and not anywhere close to being in the same league.
Present your biased findings... At least you will have something to base your derogatory claims on VK's products on. I am aware that the way the welds are made are not the same, and VK made the decision to have the welds Grinded which will make them a little weaker, but we are not talking about welds that are undergoing great deal of pressure. We are talking about an exhaust that is supported by several mounting brackets, and only needs to be able ho hold up to heat and some vibration which you overplayed a great deal earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Where have I been condescending to anyone? Are we even reading the same thread?!?,
You seem to be very condescending to anyone who questions your unsubstantiated claims. You have attacked VK's products, instead of showing how your products are better. This makes many people distrust you and lose respect for you in the community... I'm not the first person to point out that your actions in this thread will not get you any favors or respect in this community.


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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I don't care if its made on the moon - that is not the issue - a bait and switch is a bait and switch.
I completely agree with you, but I do not know if they still are selling the core from ETS from there stock, and I doubt that you are updated on their inventory either. Maybe they are in the process of doing all of the test again from the new core that they are selling/are going to sell. You have no room to talk as your downpipes on your website is not what you are sending to your customers. (Thank god because you would have to be an idiot to pay $700 for a pair of pipes with that crappy welding holding it together)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
So now, taking a product that has been extremely successful, and constantly improving it EVEN MORE makes us shady? Are you high out of your mind?
According to you, your profit margins are very poor, so how is it so successful? Its not like you are selling something for a Honda Civic. You are selling to a very small market of people tuning the N54 platform that are willing to do more than a chip. Something doesn't add up if you are extremely successful with low profit margins on a low quantity item Maybe he is making a lot higher profit margin than he wants us to believe he is....

Hey Mods, I thought you were not allowed to make personal attacks that are completely false and childish because he seems to be unable to conduct himself in a professional manner. Has he not received an infraction for breaking the rules that everyone who joins e90post/1addicts has to agree to?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
If you actually read what I wrote, you would see plenty of factual material. You deserve to go back to elementary school - with a focus on learning how to read.
Point out some of your "factual material". You have yet to provide anything in this thread except biased claims and personal attacks... You have anything such as an independent test to back up any claims of yours? I didn't think so.
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      09-27-2009, 08:00 AM   #183
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omg , you are acting like you're 2 years old..."my pacifier is better then yours" omg come on foks...

why dont everyone who want to buy a dp SEARCH AND READ the reviews of what OTHER people think of the product and perfomance ?
instead of saying that , ar dp is shitty , vk dp is shitty...there is a reason why many people have diffrent dp's.

there IS a diffrence in welding and quality , thats fact.
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      09-27-2009, 10:51 AM   #184
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I'm done, fellas. This is getting nowhere fast, being that some do not wish to hold a rational discussion.
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      09-27-2009, 11:05 AM   #185
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No matter ..how ever long we argue , both products have their own unique customers . whether one is better than the other or is the higher price justified is up to the customers.

Mods should close this thread...the time has come for us to relax.
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      09-27-2009, 01:44 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
You can say what you want. But he has been complete d-bag on this thread. He is representing his company very badly.

He should think twice about the way he conducts himself. Whether he believes or not, he can lose out on sales.
Yeah, I think a lot of people that are potential customers would decide to go to another company that conducts themselves in a proper manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerDejan View Post
omg , you are acting like you're 2 years old..."my pacifier is better then yours" omg come on foks...

why dont everyone who want to buy a dp SEARCH AND READ the reviews of what OTHER people think of the product and perfomance ?
instead of saying that , ar dp is shitty , vk dp is shitty...there is a reason why many people have diffrent dp's.

there IS a diffrence in welding and quality , thats fact.
I spend a great deal of time on this forum whether or not I post each day, and have read numerous threads on AR designs DP's. That is not the issue, its that Andrew is attacking VK with his post inferring that the welds look like crap and will never hold. Then when somebody call him out on his unsubstantiated claims, he stoops down to personal attacks on them. Not exactly a way to represent his company...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I'm done, fellas. This is getting nowhere fast, being that some do not wish to hold a rational discussion.
You are the one who refuses to back up anything you say... If you would have come out and said something along the lines of "I purchased VK DP's to compare the differences in quality and performance, and the welds are inferior due to X, and on a dyno the AR made X more/less hp than VK", it would have been perfectly acceptable. You decided to just try to make people believe that unless you buy AR pipes, they are going to fail.

Let your products speak for themselves, and point out things that make your DP's great instead of taking pot shots at competition.

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Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
No matter ..how ever long we argue , both products have their own unique customers . whether one is better than the other or is the higher price justified is up to the customers.

Mods should close this thread...the time has come for us to relax.
I think anyone interested in purchasing any of AR's products should read this before they do so. I think some would decide they do not want to support a company that makes personal attacks on anyone who dares question the "weld guru".

Its also interesting how he immediately labels anyone who disagrees with him a Fanboi. I am not biased towards either company, and have never bought any of VK's ore Ar's products, and haven't even talked to Vince before. I have no sponsors who are able to give me a discount on VK parts, but one that carries AR products. If anything I would be biased in favor of AR. I am honestly looking to buy from a reputable company that conducts itself as such, and that makes great products. AR is lacking at least one of the criteria. I think I'm gonna have to give CP-E a call becuase their pipes look to be better quality anyways....
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      09-27-2009, 05:30 PM   #187
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complete boring ...
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      09-27-2009, 10:41 PM   #188
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All I have to say is:
--Thanks Vince for making cheap $$ DPs. (No comment on quality)
--Thanks Andrew for making quality DPs, and sorry for having E90post misunderstand your statements and jump on you (No comment on price)
--Thanks ETS Michael for showing us the sh*tty intercooler

Now everyone, talk to each other as if you are talking to your mother (or comparable figure that was once present in your life) and keep it civilized.
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