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      02-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #1
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A quick intro:

I'm a long time member of the forum, but really only lurk to find info and post an occasional response when I'm inspired to do so. I slowly built my '07 e90 until it was FBO, and only turned to audio upgrades once my need for speed was satisfied.

I did acquire over the years some of my audio, but have not yet installed anything. Now I'm to the point where I'm ready to install, and would like the expert advice of some of the guys whose posts I've read over the years... I'll drop names if I have to! lol

The components I have so far:
JL stealthbox with the 13.5" subs.
SWSx underseats (may not use based on advice thus far)
Rainbow SLC 210s
Technic Harness for L7
High quality amp kit (oxygen free 100% copper)
Jl audio jx 1000/1 (pending delivery)

Components I need:
Front stage amp (I've been searching for a JL 600/6, but not 100%)
Some dynamat or similar dampening material

OK so some of the things I'm unsure of follows:

1. Will the Technic harness get the job done? I know it has a set of RCAs, and the JL amps have pre-amp outs, so can I connect one amp to the harness, and then daisy chain the second amp to those pre-outs? If so, does it matter if I connect the trunk sub amp first and daisy chain from it, or vice versa? ANSWERED

2. I have a set of the SWS underseats, but do I even need them since I have two JL TW5s in the trunk? I've considered three underseat options, and dont know which would be best with what I have. One would be giving the L7s more juice with the 600/6 (but would the bridged 200w be way too much? turn the gain down all the way on those channels?). Second option would be leave one L7, add one SWS for a blended solution up front (again, with the gain and crossovers on the 600/6 unique to each). Third would be both SWS swapped in for the L7s (although I feel like this would be too bass heavy overall with the stealthbox, and would be too lack miding in midbass). ANSWERED

3. I am looking for a pro out in the L.A. area, and have seen many references to "Don" out on the east coast. Who is the "Don" of the west coast? I'm in North Hollywood for those familiar with the Los Angeles area. Once I get all the amps and some input, I want to have someone do the install. STILL NEED THAT LOCAL PRO!

I might just start with the stealthbox and Technic harness and some dynamat since I know I'm at least proficient enough for that part, and add the front stage after I get the guidance I need. The bass is so lacking, and I feel like I'll be 100% happier once I fill in that void, and adjust the rest of the stock L7 accordingly once the bass is in. Its hard to have the subs sitting in my apartment and the only reason I haven't already ordered the Technic harness is I'm a little over analytical and have been reading a million other build threads just to see what other people have done etc.

Lets hear what y'all think!!!

Thanks in advance,

Adam
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      02-11-2017, 02:29 PM   #2
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Since you have the L7 system you have some difficult decisions to make.
Like do you bail on the L7 amp and recode or just use speaker outs or
buy and expensive mobridge pre amp. The technic harness for L7 is designed
for people that just want to add a sub or amp there underseats.
It could be modified for signal breakout.
So you must decide if you are going to use the L7 as a pre amp, buy a mobridge or recode and loose the L7.

Vp Electricity was the West Coast equivalent to Don that used to hang here.
But he's in Portland.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wzlmJOgpS_kb-g
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      02-11-2017, 02:40 PM   #3
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Thanks, and bummer he's up in Oregon now...

If I got a Dynavin N6 with the most adapter would that fix the problem you mentioned? Would the stock L7 amp still feed the rest of the speakers I leave stock? Would I even need a Technic harness if I went that route? Or is he a wizard that could customize a harness for what I'm describing? *ahem* (enter Technic here) lol

I might still just start with the harness and JL stealthbox since I'm Jonesing for bass with this beautiful setup just sitting in my apartment. It doesn't help that my buddy just got his system hooked up in his '66 Chevelle. She's a beaut!!!
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      02-11-2017, 02:42 PM   #4
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VP has always been on Oregon.
http://musicarnw.com/
He had some shops in LA that did installs of his kits
so he might be able to tell you where to go.
With a Dynavin N6 you would remove the Most adapter and
run analog to you aftermarket amps if you want to do a total
upgrade then you could tap into the speaker lines from the L7
system to run your speakers if you don't want to lay new lines.
Technic no longer is a member of this board if you want to
contact him you will have to go to his site,
I could see using the Technic harness as basis for a signal breakout point
when tapping into the speaker wiring .

If you are going to buy an N6 and use it with the L7 is doesn't
really solve the problem of speaker and amp upgrades.

Last edited by ctuna; 02-19-2017 at 02:22 PM.
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      02-11-2017, 05:47 PM   #5
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Ok, thanks ctuna. Hopefully VP does still have a footprint down here, he is one of those guys (as are you) whose posts have been valuable reads as I got closer to pulling the trigger in my audio upgrade.

I would prefer to not rerun wires to power the front stage but I've also read that upgrading the L7 is a pita, so I guess I should prepare myself for that possibility.

Let's get some more input on here guys!
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      02-12-2017, 04:01 PM   #6
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Also, I thought the N6 with MOST adapter allowed to keep factory output AND add subs...

Like the N6 power the rear stage, and add amps for trunk sun and front stage via pre-amp outputs on N6 head unit.

Is this possible?
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      02-12-2017, 06:48 PM   #7
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If you are putting in an aftermarket head unit the advantage
the N6 offers you is it allows you to keep the L7 amp.
The obstacle is the L7 amp presents to adding amps and speakers
is you have to use the L7 amp as a preamp using the speaker
outs to power your aftermarket amp . Even the Technic Harness
for L7 does this. So adding the N6 does not move you down the
road to aftermarket speakers and amps any further.

What the N6 provides is a way to put and aftermarket head unit
in and with the adapter not have to junk the L7 amp and its
the only head unit that does that. And to have Nav and various other
features that most pro radio setups don't have.

Last edited by ctuna; 02-19-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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      02-12-2017, 07:04 PM   #8
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Ctuna did you mean " *not* even the technic harness..."

I guess I don't understand why the L7 harness can help me easily add a sub, but I can't daisy chain another sub from the pre-amp outs on that sub amp to drive the front stage...
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      02-12-2017, 08:07 PM   #9
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Logic 7 has no preamp outs .
It has a fiberoptic cable that supplys the input from the idrive or pro
radio and it has 9 amped chanels out that feed the speakers.
Technic taps of some combination of the speaker outs to run a speaker
out to low level converter that runs the trunk sub amp and I assume he uses
or taps the speaker outs that run the underseats to allow you to
run those into an additional amp of your choosing that takes speaker levels
for you to use to amp the underseats at least that is the way I understand it.
You need to talk to him for the details.
What is does is to allow you not to cut into the factory harness.
He explains all this on his website.
There is no daisy chaining with this stuff .
You route signals to channels if you have to use speaker outs
you get and amp that takes them or in the case of a trunk sub
you generate another channel by using a level conversion device.

Last edited by ctuna; 02-12-2017 at 08:18 PM.
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      02-12-2017, 11:55 PM   #10
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If you have trunk subs, use a proper midbass driver instead of sws
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      02-13-2017, 08:28 AM   #11
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That's what I figured. I got the SWS a couple years ago, but never installed them. I picked up the stealthbox just recently and that is obviously the far better bass solution.

So far it seems adding anything other than trunk subs to the L7 might be more complicated than I thought. Kinda all or nothing when considering replacing the existing speakers.

I might just start with the JL and adjust EQ of the Logic7 and then see where I'm at...

Unless there's some local audio wizard that jumps in here and makes me feel better about replacing the front stage and adding another amp!
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      02-13-2017, 01:43 PM   #12
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Additional info for subs

subwoofer threads
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=66
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=Ultimate+Sub
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=subwoofer
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      02-14-2017, 11:31 PM   #13
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So the loc gives me a signal to feed the amps for a trunk sub. I understand this. Why can't I then use the pre-amp outs from that amp to feed another amp that pushes the front stage? I appreciate all the links but I've already read most of these. I know the logic 7 uses the fiber optic from the hu which is one reason the "professional" stereo isn't a simple upgrade, but Technic's harness taps into the L7 amp, provides the missing low level out via RCAs, and voila, you get subs. What stops me from adding a 600/6 by feeding it with a pre-amp out from the 1000w mono amps from the trunk sub? Obviously you couldn't use the factory lines from the L7 but couldn't you run new lines to aftermarket front stage speakers? Am I missing something!?
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      02-15-2017, 12:19 AM   #14
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If you use the speaker outs to drive for instance a door channel you want
the output from the amp that drives that channel to be routed to that particular speaker because it has the decoded
information for that channel and its full range to that channel.(its called stereo)
When you have basic stereo you want the left channel information to go to the left channel speaker etc.etc. In general a true trunk sub is a mono signal with a very limited frequency range.
So to get channels where there suppose to be you would take the speaker out signal for say the front left door speaker and run it through and amp that takes a speaker out amp level signal and then route that channel through your new amp to the left door speaker . And you would do the same for each channel you wanted additional amplification on . If the amp does not take speaker out signals you have the option of putting loc or loc type device in between.

Some amps may even have a pass through for sub output that would eliminate the need for a sub lok.

The thing is you have to be comfortable with using your existing amp as
a pre amp which is kind of an inelegant solution IMHOP

But people do it.

Also you have to separate the Head Unit or Idrive from the equation
its the sound system that determines the hookup. The l7 hookup problems are the same no matter if it's a idrive or pro radio with
a L7 speaker and amp package.

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

Last edited by ctuna; 02-15-2017 at 12:30 AM.
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      02-15-2017, 12:17 PM   #15
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ctuna, thanks. That really helps me understand it better. So that's why the technic harness is suitable for subs (mono, non full range output of the LOC is adequate for subs but not really the signal you want to then route to front stage speakers) but not the rest...

Or at least that's how I interpreted what you just said. So I've preserved the technic harness and a JL audio jx/1000 for the stealthbox. After I install and tweak the eq I'm hoping I'll be a lot closer to the sound I'm looking for. Now I wish I just originally had hifi, LOL
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      02-15-2017, 02:12 PM   #16
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Most people that have the L7 I think are pretty satisfied with it.
The recent fashion in stereo is to have big bass to the exclusion
of a balanced system . I think that is why Technic makes add a sub
harnesses for the L7 system and now for the Hi Fi system.

If I was doing a L7 upgrade I would look at upgrading the front doors
and floors as a stage one upgrade. I am not big on subs but if I was
sub guy I would do that at the same time.

If I was doing stage two I would take out the L7 amp recode or add
a Mobridge preamp and amps and speakers . Or recode and add
a Helix dsp/amp and aftermarket speakers to the the doors and floors.

A stage 3 would add Jehnert door boards and the appropriate dsp/amp
to that stuff

Last edited by ctuna; 02-19-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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      02-15-2017, 07:23 PM   #17
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Yeah that makes sense if you're not a big fan of bass. My stage one is to add the single frequency that is currently missing from the L7, what exists below the bottom range of the mid bass woofers. Music is recorded using instruments with enough sensitivity to capture the full intended range, and when played back on the L7 system the entire lower register is missing. That's a substantial and significant part of music from jazz to hip hop. I prefer the full range, with clean, musical bass, which is what a sealed box with JL subs does best, imho.

I'd love to do the front stage too and push more amplification up there but for now the simple plug and play that Technic's harness allows will be the first step taken.
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      02-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #18
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I'm not a fan of that stealth box. It traps the sound waves in the trunk. You'll need 1000w but it'll probably sound like 100w, and your trunk will vibrate and rattle. A good corner enclosure setup will sound better and be more efficient. And I second Taibanl, do NOT install the SWS. Keep the L7s in there and give them around 100w each in stereo, and high pass them at 50-60Hz with a 24 dB/oct slope.
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      02-16-2017, 02:25 AM   #19
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Kaigoss I've seen you in a lot of stereo posts and you've obviously had a lot of different set ups but that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard...

I will not claim to be the most technically knowledgeable person when it comes installing car audio, but I have at the very least a fundamental understanding of sound. Sub bass frequencies travel far, and are quite hard to "trap". I will confidently say that 1000 watts will not sound like 100, and I've never heard this system in person. There is a reason you can hear the BASS of a system before you even see the car coming, but only hear the high frequencies when a vehicle passes right by you with the windows down. Here's a quick read that might help illuminate things for you. http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/aiming.htm

Besides, personal preference is very subjective, and what you don't like has zero bearing on the focus of my thread. Thanks for weighing in, but I'm not really interested in anything that doesn't address the concerns stated in my original post.

Having said that I'm leaning towards not using the SWS as you and others have mentioned, and am curious how you would approach increasing the amplification of the L7 underseat mid bass given the previously mentioned obstacles with the Logic 7 system.
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      02-16-2017, 02:04 PM   #20
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Excuse me, sir, but there is nothing dumb about my comments. The only thing "dumb" is the ignorance that you display in your answer.

I said the sound waves get trapped in the trunk. You tell me it's BS and give an example of bass being heard for city blocks, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. The reason you can hear bass for city blocks is that bass waves are 1) unidirectional, and 2) carry much more energy than high frequencies. Then you post a link which confirms what I said: The orientation and placement of the stealth box causes cancellations and loss of output with the trunk closed. Sound waves being "trapped" or "cancelled" obviously means the same thing in this case.

Furthermore, your linked article confirms my recommendation of a corner-loaded enclosure being more efficient because it benefits from the same principle as scenario number 4 in the article, but it is even better since it uses multiple surfaces to reflect and "combine" mostly in-phase waves and directs them toward the cabin.

Perhaps you are being a bit overly defensive since you spent a lot of money on a flawed enclosure design, whereas you could have done much better with a third of the money. But hey, it's your money and you're obviously sticking to your guns so I wish you the best of luck with your build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LT View Post
Kaigoss I've seen you in a lot of stereo posts and you've obviously had a lot of different set ups but that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard...

I will not claim to be the most technically knowledgeable person when it comes installing car audio, but I have at the very least a fundamental understanding of sound. Sub bass frequencies travel far, and are quite hard to "trap". I will confidently say that 1000 watts will not sound like 100, and I've never heard this system in person. There is a reason you can hear the BASS of a system before you even see the car coming, but only hear the high frequencies when a vehicle passes right by you with the windows down. Here's a quick read that might help illuminate things for you. http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/aiming.htm

Besides, personal preference is very subjective, and what you don't like has zero bearing on the focus of my thread. Thanks for weighing in, but I'm not really interested in anything that doesn't address the concerns stated in my original post.

Having said that I'm leaning towards not using the SWS as you and others have mentioned, and am curious how you would approach increasing the amplification of the L7 underseat mid bass given the previously mentioned obstacles with the Logic 7 system.
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      02-16-2017, 04:08 PM   #21
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Look, thanks for ur reply. I don't really care to devolve this into a contest of who can assign who is butt hurt by the other's response. Do you know how much I paid for the "flawed design" enclosure? No. I couldn't even buy 1 half decent sub for 1/3 of what I paid, but that isn't the point. You are now making assumptions that have nothing to do with what I'm asking. You ignored my interest in your opinion about the part of your answer that might actually address my concerns, but chose instead to assume I'm offended by your original reply because I thought (and still think) it was stupid. Sweet reply, very helpful. I couldn't give a shit either way, because I never asked for anyone's two cents on whether they "like" the enclosure I bought. I'll be sure to post whether the high power, low frequency waves get trapped in the trunk after I install my wasted money flawed design that magically reduces the amplification by a factor of ten.
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      02-17-2017, 09:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LT View Post
Look, thanks for ur reply. I don't really care to devolve this into a contest of who can assign who is butt hurt by the other's response. Do you know how much I paid for the "flawed design" enclosure? No. I couldn't even buy 1 half decent sub for 1/3 of what I paid, but that isn't the point. You are now making assumptions that have nothing to do with what I'm asking. You ignored my interest in your opinion about the part of your answer that might actually address my concerns, but chose instead to assume I'm offended by your original reply because I thought (and still think) it was stupid. Sweet reply, very helpful. I couldn't give a shit either way, because I never asked for anyone's two cents on whether they "like" the enclosure I bought. I'll be sure to post whether the high power, low frequency waves get trapped in the trunk after I install my wasted money flawed design that magically reduces the amplification by a factor of ten.
I was just ticked by your characterization of what I had posted as dumb. It wasn't. I just told you something you didn't want to hear, that's all. Could I have refrained from commenting on the enclosure? - Sure, but sometimes I like to point these things out because people spend a lot of time and money on the install, and then end up changing things out again later because they don't work. The same goes for the Earthquakes - if you had installed those together with the trunk sub enclosure it would have been a mistake, and you would have had to do it all over again shortly thereafter. You're welcome. You came here looking for advice, then don't take it the wrong way when you are told that your choices are either wrong or not ideal.

Now, if it was me, I would at least give that JL enclosure a try, since you already have it, and I would purchase a used corner loaded enclosure and compare the two. You can swap those out in a matter of minutes and then sell the one you like less for a very small loss, or potentially at breakeven. When you try the corner loaded enclosure, take out the JL enclosure since it blocks sound waves from entering the cabin. If you have a ski-pass, open it.

I only heard the JL enclosure once and it didn't impress me. First, there was a delay to the front stage, as there was no DSP used. Second, it sounded "muffled" and disconnected, and you could tell the subwoofers were in the trunk. There were also audible rattles coming from the trunk. With the corner loaded set-up, of which I have heard several, the integration with the front stage is smoother, and, when reversing polarity (phase), or using a DSP, you will have a hard time hearing it coming from the trunk. The output is very efficient and clean, with zero trunk rattles, and best suited for SQ systems.
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