Button... A worthy champion ?? - Page 2 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

E90SLAM · 10-19-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

I was rooting for Vettel out of the three contenders myself. But despite his DNF in Valencia which was not his fault, he only had three wins. He also had two DNFs (not including Valencia) and two finishes out of the points. So I don't believe he was more deserving than Button.

Vettel is still maturing. He made a few stupid mistakes. Australia for one. If he had given up position to Kubica, he would've finished third, giving him six points. Then, he would not have the ten spot grid penalty in Malaysia, so he would've started 3rd. That race was stopped due to rain, so he would've finished somewhere in the points. That could've made his season.

Vettel WILL WIN a World Champion one day....very talented and composed driver...but he did have his moments once a while...

e.g. Turkish GP...just one mistake in the opening lap and Button gave no mercy and took the lead and disappear in the distance.....

MontegoblueE92 · 10-19-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rto

Brawn -> English team
Factory -> located in the UK
Ross Brawn (owner) -> English
Major sponsor -> Virgin (English)
Jenson -> English

Do u have any doubts who would win?

How many problems JB had on his pit stops thru out the season?
How many problems RB had???

After mid of season when other cars were even better than Brawn who scored 2 incredible victories? And an incredible pole position?

Just so you know, every team is British except for Toyota. They're German. Every lead mechanic on the grid is also British. It has nothing to do with nationality.

How many problems did Sebastian Vettel have on pit stops? Or Kimi Raikkonen? Or Alonso? Or Buemi?

You're trying too hard to put Button down, but in the end, you're only insulting your intelligence.

MontegoblueE92 · 10-19-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

So Round 1 thru 7 doesn't count anymore???

To me...this is called selective statistics....to pick part of the statistics in favor to your argument...If Vettel or Barrichello won this year...are they worthy champion??? we're gonna raise the question too...

Vettel didn't have a competitive car in the beginning of the season...and Barrichello had multiple mitakes of over-torquing his gearbox race starts....

Afterall....FIA World Champion is being decided with 17 races....with a certain amount of point available for grab...

its a like marathon...for the first 8-10 miles...the leader build up an insane gap...then in the last 10 miles...other runners are catching up....but whoever crosses the line first wins (as who can grab the MOST available points first)....

if we're using Bernie's medal system....Button would've win the champion months ago....

(Bernie should've be glad that didn't happen...)

+1

Too many people trying too hard to put Button down. It's because they can't remember more than a month back. So, only the passed 3 or 4 races play out in their minds where Button was a middle of the pack driver. The championship is decided by 17 races, not the last few.

taliesen · 10-19-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Just so you know, every team is British except for Toyota. They're German. Every lead mechanic on the grid is also British. It has nothing to do with nationality.

How many problems did Sebastian Vettel have on pit stops? Or Kimi Raikkonen? Or Alonso? Or Buemi?

You're trying too hard to put Button down, but in the end, you're only insulting your intelligence.

I mostly agree with you - though I think the Tifosi might get a little upset with the omission of a certain Italian team

E90SLAM · 10-19-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Just so you know, every team is British except for Toyota. They're German. Every lead mechanic on the grid is also British. It has nothing to do with nationality.

How many problems did Sebastian Vettel have on pit stops? Or Kimi Raikkonen? Or Alonso? Or Buemi?

You're trying too hard to put Button down, but in the end, you're only insulting your intelligence.

And yet....Toyota still needs to prove themselves...they made many promises and havn't deliver a solid result yet...sometimes bad luck...and sometimes a poor mechanical set up where tracks like Monaco needs the most...

KANdaddy · 10-19-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Then who should win this season???
Vettel??? who only got three wins???
Barrichello??? Who didn't perform the best out of BGP001 until Valencia???
Webber??? you've gotta be kidding me....
Hamilton??? Who complained the car is like a friggin boat...can't even keep up with the friggin Renault during Turkish GP....???
Raikkonen??? Who doesn't give a shit about almost everything and wearing a ridiculous big hat???

They're all great drivers....but Button took the most advantage in the beginning of the season while everyone struggle and laid down a very solid foundation towards today's champion....

EXACTLY. I agree with those supporting Button. He was the most consistent throughout the year. When he knew he had a huge points lead he didn't risk the championship....he just quietly scored points. In Brazil when his points lead became jeopardized, who became aggressive and passed many cars in the opening laps to ensure the championship......umm...Button. End of story.

josephr25 · 10-19-2009, 11:27 PM

He proved he was a great driver in 2004, and proved that you do really need a car and team to win.

People who say he was in the right car at the right time - that's been every champion for the last two decades... give me a break. Oh I forgot, I didn't realize how many F1 drivers we had on this forum, especially with their JB3.

E90SLAM · 10-19-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

EXACTLY. I agree with those supporting Button. He was the most consistent throughout the year. When he knew he had a huge points lead he didn't risk the championship....he just quietly scored points. In Brazil when his points lead became jeopardized, who became aggressive and passed many cars in the opening laps to ensure the championship......umm...Button. End of story.

Even though during European races....the car is a dog and he cannot out-his teammate Barrichello or the RedBulls....but his large gaps in championship points allows him to relax and the luxury to take their time to fix whatever it was that caused the car so slow....

I remember I heard from Bob Varsha during SPEEDTV....in the final few races...you just need a few points to clinch the championship....those are just the few points you slumped in the beginning season!!!

In Formula 1...there are 17-19 races each season....and ALL THE RACES ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT!!! The 10 points you scored in the season opening might just be the life saver you need in the final race.....

MontegoblueE92 · 10-20-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

ALL THE RACES ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT!!! The 10 points you scored in the season opening might just be the life saver you need in the final race.....

Unfortunately, Sebastian found that out the hard way. From here on out it's going to be really tough. There's not going to be a huge technical regulation change next season, so no huge design slump from the manufacturer teams. With Alonso at Ferrari and Raikkonen and Hamilton at McLaren, I think the customer teams are going to get dominated again like they have been the past decade.

MontegoblueE92 · 10-20-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taliesen

I mostly agree with you - though I think the Tifosi might get a little upset with the omission of a certain Italian team

Lol, I got so caught up making a statement I left out Ferrari. My bad. All but 2 teams are British.

E90SLAM · 10-20-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Unfortunately, Sebastian found that out the hard way. From here on out it's going to be really tough. There's not going to be a huge technical regulation change next season, so no huge design slump from the manufacturer teams. With Alonso at Ferrari and Raikkonen and Hamilton at McLaren, I think the customer teams are going to get dominated again like they have been the past decade.

I cannot wait till next season already...the winter break is killing me!!!
Brawn and RBR will continue to be strong...and Ferrari and McLaren in the mix....WOW!!!

nmulax · 10-20-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Lol, I got so caught up making a statement I left out Ferrari. My bad. All but 2 teams are British.

umm...
Ferrari: Italy
Toro Rosso: Italy
BMW: Germany/Switzerland
Toyota: Germany

Ramos · 10-20-2009, 11:24 AM

Let's come back to this thread a year from now when Button doesn't even finish in the top 5 next year and that will confirm what I am saying... He is NOT WORTHY

A worthy champion continues to get maximum out of the car even when car is bad, he finds way to get results somehow...

Examples: Alonso, kimi, Lewis
I would like to see Button get a win or a podium with an uncompetitive car like those 3 seem to be able to do

Enough said

E90SLAM · 10-20-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Let's come back to this thread a year from now when Button doesn't even finish in the top 5 next year and that will confirm what I am saying... He is NOT WORTHY

A worthy champion continues to get maximum out of the car even when car is bad, he finds way to get results somehow...

Examples: Alonso, kimi, Lewis
I would like to see Button get a win or a podium with an uncompetitive car like those 3 seem to be able to do

Enough said

So one time champions were never worthy???

E90SLAM · 10-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Many recent WDC won when they have a good car that year....so...are they worthy?

KANdaddy · 10-20-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Let's come back to this thread a year from now when Button doesn't even finish in the top 5 next year and that will confirm what I am saying... He is NOT WORTHY

A worthy champion continues to get maximum out of the car even when car is bad, he finds way to get results somehow...

Examples: Alonso, kimi, Lewis
I would like to see Button get a win or a podium with an uncompetitive car like those 3 seem to be able to do

Enough said

Its not that Button didn't get the max out of his car mid season.....its that he did enough to keep his pursuers for the WDC at bay without jeapordizing his overall chances at the WDC. Alonso, Kimi, Lewis were all out of the championship by this time so they had nothing to lose by pushing for a win and risking a crash as there was nothing for them to throw away.

Your dislike for Button obvioulsy makes it impossible for you to be objective even when the facts are right in front of your face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

I cannot wait till next season already...the winter break is killing me!!!
Brawn and RBR will continue to be strong...and Ferrari and McLaren in the mix....WOW!!!

+1000. Can't wait either. Its going to be an even better season. I'll miss BMW tho

E90SLAM · 10-20-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Its not that Button didn't get the max out of his car mid season.....its that he did enough to keep his pursuers for the WDC at bay without jeapordizing his overall chances at the WDC. Alonso, Kimi, Lewis were all out of the championship by this time so they had nothing to lose by pushing for a win and risking a crash as there was nothing for them to throw away.

Your dislike for Button obvioulsy makes it impossible for you to be objective even when the facts are right in front of your face.

+1

Then why didn't Barrichello or Vettel won the WDC???
They didn't even give the max out of their best car...while Jenson did!!!
Gives the best out of the best car he got on the grid...makes the fewest mistakes (compare to barrichello stalled twice on the grid...and a few mistakes from Vettel in Turkey and Singapore)...that's what makes a champion....

E90SLAM · 10-20-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

+1000. Can't wait either. Its going to be an even better season. I'll miss BMW tho

speaking of BMW Sauber....props to Kubica!!!

P2 in Brazil...!!! they can transform to a new team with thier chins up!!!

KANdaddy · 10-20-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

speaking of BMW Sauber....props to Kubica!!!

P2 in Brazil...!!! they can transform to a new team with thier chins up!!!

Yup! Good way to end the season for them. I've always liked Kubica too. Hopefully he will be able to succeed with the POS Renault. Well the engines seem to be good for RBR so maybe the factory team can produce a better chassis and give Kubica a chance.

Ramos · 10-20-2009, 12:23 PM

Actually the Renault engines were the downfall of Red Bull, they even wanted to switch to Merc power and away from Renault...

Hard to imagine Renault doing well now that they don't even have sponsorship

G-Mach1 · 10-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Then who should win this season???
Vettel??? who only got three wins???
Barrichello??? Who didn't perform the best out of BGP001 until Valencia???
Webber??? you've gotta be kidding me....
Hamilton??? Who complained the car is like a friggin boat...can't even keep up with the friggin Renault during Turkish GP....???
Raikkonen??? Who doesn't give a shit about almost everything and wearing a ridiculous big hat???

They're all great drivers....but Button took the most advantage in the beginning of the season while everyone struggle and laid down a very solid foundation towards today's champion....

I am not here to say who should have won. The question was in he a worthy champion? In my mind he is not. If he was a good driver he would have won many more races than what he won in his time in F1. For crying out loud he was behind a rookie who had never seen the track before in Brazil.
In my mind JB is not even in the same league as some of the other drivers you listed here. you can't compare JB to Vettel,Hamilton or Raikkonen.
This year Brwan was benefited from a loop hole in the design. Lets see how they are going to be next year.

JSH · 10-20-2009, 01:29 PM

Every year someone makes a thread coming up with all sorts of convenient stats and arguments why the new world champ isnt worthy.

- When Hamilton won people said he wasn't the best, it was the car.
- Raikkonen, only won in Michaels car.
- Michael wasn't worthy because he was an arrogant @#$%(other peoples words not mine)..

The list goes on...

At the end of the day Button took maximum advantage of his opportunities when he and his car had a jump on the competition. As the "fully funded" teams kept introducing updates and catching Brawn, Button and Brawn stayed consistent and amassed as many points as they could to protect their lead.

They ran the best campaign a non factory funded team could and proved that you don't have to be called McLaren or Ferrari to win.

How any of that makes you unworthy, I don't understand.

10-19-2009, 11:27 PM	#29
josephr25 Major Drives: 2008 E92 335i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 1,455 iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i Coupe [0.00]	He proved he was a great driver in 2004, and proved that you do really need a car and team to win. People who say he was in the right car at the right time - that's been every champion for the last two decades... give me a break. Oh I forgot, I didn't realize how many F1 drivers we had on this forum, especially with their JB3. __________________ "Yeah; well, my interior is better."

10-20-2009, 11:34 AM	#37
E90SLAM Supreme Allied Commander Drives: A BBS WHORE Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: . Posts: 60,582 iTrader: (6) Garage List 2006 330i [4.67]	Many recent WDC won when they have a good car that year....so...are they worthy? __________________

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10-20-2009, 11:24 AM	#35
Ramos Lieutenant Colonel Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (6)	Let's come back to this thread a year from now when Button doesn't even finish in the top 5 next year and that will confirm what I am saying... He is NOT WORTHY A worthy champion continues to get maximum out of the car even when car is bad, he finds way to get results somehow... Examples: Alonso, kimi, Lewis I would like to see Button get a win or a podium with an uncompetitive car like those 3 seem to be able to do Enough said

10-20-2009, 12:23 PM	#42
Ramos Lieutenant Colonel Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (6)	Actually the Renault engines were the downfall of Red Bull, they even wanted to switch to Merc power and away from Renault... Hard to imagine Renault doing well now that they don't even have sponsorship

10-20-2009, 01:29 PM	#44
JSH Private Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 80 iTrader: (0)	Every year someone makes a thread coming up with all sorts of convenient stats and arguments why the new world champ isnt worthy. - When Hamilton won people said he wasn't the best, it was the car. - Raikkonen, only won in Michaels car. - Michael wasn't worthy because he was an arrogant @#$%(other peoples words not mine).. The list goes on... At the end of the day Button took maximum advantage of his opportunities when he and his car had a jump on the competition. As the "fully funded" teams kept introducing updates and catching Brawn, Button and Brawn stayed consistent and amassed as many points as they could to protect their lead. They ran the best campaign a non factory funded team could and proved that you don't have to be called McLaren or Ferrari to win. How any of that makes you unworthy, I don't understand.