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      10-22-2009, 03:54 PM   #155
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A lot of the hate on the internet comes from the $375k price. Do I think that's a crazy price? Hell yeah. Does Lexus care that I think that or that most people think that? Probably not. They didn't make this car for me or 99.99% of the population to buy - that's why they are just making 500 of them.

It seems that Lexus wanted to build a car that would cause buzz and get more people to know that they are no longer a company that builds only boring cars. Judging from all the postings and articles the past few days, I think they've succeeded at least in creating buzz.

Lexus has developed some interesting technology for this car and I for one hope that they incorporate it into more performance oriented cars that are in my price range. I had a Lexus IS a few years ago and I loved that car - you can't argue with Lexus reliability and it was a fun car to drive. I can't wait to see what they come out with in the future.

As for the people saying that this car will not outperform other cars, what is your basis? Let's wait until there are reviews and comparisons before we jump to conclusions here.
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      10-22-2009, 04:05 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpWtE92 View Post
A lot of the hate on the internet comes from the $375k price. Do I think that's a crazy price? Hell yeah. Does Lexus care that I think that or that most people think that? Probably not. They didn't make this car for me or 99.99% of the population to buy - that's why they are just making 500 of them.
of course, they could have priced it at $125k and sold them in volume, FOR A PROFIT.

the only reason they're taking a loss is because they're making only 500 of them, which is less than they need to make to cover the R&D costs.

If that's what they want to do fine, but let's not pretend that they couldn't have sold it for less and made them in decent volume. Lexus really has no business in the high end sports car market. Then again, only making 500 of them ever means they're not really in the high end market anyway. They're just selling a collector's item.
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      10-22-2009, 04:13 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by graider View Post
this car is worth 375k.


No, it's worth about $150k. and if they were making them in volume instead of trying to make it a collector's item, it WOULD be $150k. Maybe even less.
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      10-22-2009, 04:53 PM   #158
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I would liken the comparison of this car to the release of the SL65 Black Series (only 350 to be built). The SL65 Black is an accomplishment of sorts for the AMG division, but at its current price tag of $320,000, it is difficult to justify. Now, dealers are offering it for an "invoice" of $289,000 (well at least two I spoke to).

The LFA seems like a logical decision for Lexus and hats off to them for creating this wonderful machine. However, I agree with most here that the LFA's pricing structure is a bit high. Even for the wealthy, there is something called "value" that is considered most of the time in big ticket purchases. In this case, it is not there. If Lexus launched this car 7+ years ago, they should have no problem selling them, but with the current global economy and with the ZR1 and GTR on the market, justification would be considered.

I am interested in seeing one, driving one, just not owning one.
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      10-22-2009, 05:15 PM   #159
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Looks sick in matte black.



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      10-22-2009, 06:37 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian1480 View Post
of course, they could have priced it at $125k and sold them in volume, FOR A PROFIT.

the only reason they're taking a loss is because they're making only 500 of them, which is less than they need to make to cover the R&D costs.

If that's what they want to do fine, but let's not pretend that they couldn't have sold it for less and made them in decent volume. Lexus really has no business in the high end sports car market. Then again, only making 500 of them ever means they're not really in the high end market anyway. They're just selling a collector's item.
Nobody is "pretending" that Lexus couldn't have sold this car for less if they made more, but I'm not sure what your point is. If Porsche made more Careera GTs, or Ferrari made more Enzos, I'm sure they could have lowered the price for those cars too. That wasn't the point of those cars and that's not the point of this car. Lexus itself says that the purpose of this car is to "cast a halo" over its brand and line of F-cars, and that they are purposefully being selective about who owns one. I see no obvious fault with their strategy.

I also wonder if anyone questioning the price of this car has actually looked closely at the features and technology that is in it. For example, the chasis and body are both made almost completely out of composite materials and CF and the engine is unique to this car and derived from one of Toyota's F1 engines. It seems to me that the material costs to build this car is not cheap and is in line with or exceeds what is found other cars costing over $250K. Car and Driver seems to think that the car is actually a "bargain!": http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review

I think people are being a bit quick to jump to the conclusion that this car is not worth the money purely because it is from Lexus/Toyota. If it came from Ferrari, Aston Martin, or even AMG, I'm sure the reaction would be much different. There are plenty of other cars out there that are more expensive and offer the same if not less technology and features. That is exactly the kind of thinking/prejudice that Lexus wants to chip away at with the release of this car. It remains to be seen if they will be successful.
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      10-22-2009, 08:47 PM   #161
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I am sure it will raise the bar of engineering and excitement in the automotive industry.

They developed this car with a single focus for 7 years. Fastest race track performance possible. They will make only 500 of these so they will be choosing the buyers rather than the buyers choosing the LF-A.

The engine and exhaust note are just about the best I ever heard with Porsche Carrera GT a close second.

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Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
You are a very convincing person, 330CIZHP.

I'm very excited to see if the LF-A can prove everyone wrong.
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      10-22-2009, 11:55 PM   #162
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The Lexus LF-A revealed!!!



I know its non-1 series new but WOW...

I am extremely excited about this vehicle. I am sure everyone remembers the Supra. Toyota knows how to build great perfromance cars, but I guess they would rather sell 1 million camry's.

Anyway, enjoy





Thats the sound of a 9000RPM revvng v10!!
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      10-23-2009, 12:06 AM   #163
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Car Magazine sums up LF-A perfectly:

Clunky gearchange and mushy carbon brakes aside, it’s a supercar that you really would be happy to use every day, not something you could say for a Lamborghini Murcielago or Ferrari Enzo. The chassis is great and the soundtrack superb. But this is not a £325k car. It doesn’t look like one, doesn’t accelerate like one and, whether Lexus likes it or not, it doesn’t have the badge or motorsport/supercar pedigree that many image-conscious supercar buyers demand.

At the £150k the new Ferrari 458 or McLaren MP4-12C will cost, you could make a strong case for the new Lexus LF-A, but at £325,000, it just doesn’t add up.
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      10-23-2009, 12:13 AM   #164
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      10-23-2009, 01:01 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epik View Post
Looks sick in matte black.



Damn...it does. Wow.
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      10-23-2009, 01:09 AM   #166
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Check the non-bmw section.
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      10-23-2009, 01:10 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
You clearly haven't driven either an R8v10 and probably neither of the other two (F430 or GT3) to not see why the R8 is regarded so highly. It better than a F430, maybe not the Scuderia but then it's really an all out racer which is also true for the GT3, both offer far less in the way of creature comforts or refinement and yet in reality offer little more in outright lap pace.

Now to the question of the LF-A. I don't think everyone here are Toyota haters, well most aren't of which I include myself, but the facts remain that this car is way over priced for the performance available and the reason for that is it's about 6~7 years too late to the party. I do agree that the engine note is truly incredible but on a Lexus , a brand that hasn't nor shouldn't really stand for ultimate race car experience which really is what this car is all about. I'm sure it will be a thrilling drive and will be right up there with the best of them but sadly all of the others is will be compared to will be about half the price and all have a brand image that in this particular market stands for far more than Lexus ever could.

If they sell all 500 units then there is far too many rich d1cks in the world with too much money and not a clue of what to spent it on.

Actually I have driven an R8 (uncles) and my dad had a 430 before his 599 GTB, which I have also driven. Opps and yes he owned a 997 GT3 as well. So Ive driven all. The R8 I drove was a 8 cylinder version, and honestly it didnt feel any different from my friends RS4 I have also driven. Interior, Steering, and Handling all felt like an RS4. I really didnt understand and still dont on what all the hype is. The GT3 felt like a proper sports cars, as did the F430.

Aditionally, how many cars that are almost completely composite, and F1 dervieved engine that revs to 9000 rpm are there? I can think of only a few cars that even come to mind. Pagoni Zonda, McClaren F1, Carrera GT, Konesiegggggg? Whats the price tag on those?
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      10-23-2009, 01:16 AM   #168
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      10-23-2009, 01:21 AM   #169
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Does anyone notice it's got that supra-ish silhouette? Looks kinda sexy.
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      10-23-2009, 01:40 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital.James View Post
Aditionally, how many cars that are almost completely composite, and F1 dervieved engine that revs to 9000 rpm are there? I can think of only a few cars that even come to mind. Pagoni Zonda, McClaren F1, Carrera GT, Konesiegggggg? Whats the price tag on those?
The LF-A isn't completely composite, only part. The engine has nothing to do with F1 at all, it was just designed by the same department.

All the cars you talk about perform better and there is no doubting the pedigree.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      10-23-2009, 02:17 AM   #171
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The LF-A isn't completely composite, only part. The engine has nothing to do with F1 at all, it was just designed by the same department.

All the cars you talk about perform better and there is no doubting the pedigree.
When the Zonda and Konesiegg came out they had less pedigree than Toyota. At least Toyota had the Supra... which is more performance than either of those two had. My point is those are two fantastic cars. And the orginal Zonda didnt shatter any performance records either, but is still an amazing car and my personal favorite at the momment. I think the Toyota is just not being given a fair shake, well just because its a Toyota. I remember the same shit back in 1990 when Honda announced the NSX.
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      10-23-2009, 02:25 AM   #172
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They should have just came out with Nissan's answer to the GT-R, a slightly more expensive supra that can compete with the GT-R =/
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      10-23-2009, 02:25 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epik View Post
Looks sick in matte black.
To be fair, most cars looks sick in matte black ...
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      10-23-2009, 02:37 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital.James View Post
When the Zonda and Konesiegg came out they had less pedigree than Toyota. At least Toyota had the Supra... which is more performance than either of those two had. My point is those are two fantastic cars. And the orginal Zonda didnt shatter any performance records either, but is still an amazing car and my personal favorite at the momment. I think the Toyota is just not being given a fair shake, well just because its a Toyota. I remember the same shit back in 1990 when Honda announced the NSX.
I understand some of the points you strive to make but the Zonda C12 was absolutely faster than a Supra. The difference with Honda is that they understood what they needed to make the NSX do: More reliability, faster and a bit cheaper than the 348 (they succeeded in all of those, of course).

This LF-A costs nearly twice the 458 and is made of inferior components (single clutch gearbox that is said to be unresponsive to input? ). It's performance is also a subject of debate when looking at the initial reviews.

If it cost anywhere near the 458 and MP12, i would really not mind the badge. I love the Ford GT.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      10-23-2009, 02:37 AM   #175
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Quote:
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They should have just came out with Nissan's answer to the GT-R, a slightly more expensive supra that can compete with the GT-R =/
Plus one.

We need more of those cars. Sad thing is, even the LF-A accelerates slower than a GT-R.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      10-23-2009, 02:55 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
I understand some of the points you strive to make but the Zonda C12 was absolutely faster than a Supra. The difference with Honda is that they understood what they needed to make the NSX do: More reliability, faster and a bit cheaper than the 348 (they succeeded in all of those, of course).

This LF-A costs nearly twice the 458 and is made of inferior components (single clutch gearbox that is said to be unresponsive to input? ). It's performance is also a subject of debate when looking at the initial reviews.

If it cost anywhere near the 458 and MP12, i would really not mind the badge. I love the Ford GT.
Just to counter some of your arguments with what Car and Driver reported from their test drive:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
The chassis and body are made largely of carbon-fiber composite, just like those of an Enzo or a Mercedes SLR McLaren

The engine is a 4.8-liter V-10 codeveloped with Yamaha. Itís a compact unit that makes 553 horsepower at 8700 rpm and revs to a giddy 9000 rpm. Maximum torque of 354 pound-feet peaks at 6800 rpm, with 90 percent available between 3700 and 9000 revs.

The rear-mounted, six-speed automated manual transaxle incorporates a Torsen limited-slip differential. Control arms comprise the front suspension, with a multilink arrangement at the back. To keep weight down, the suspension pieces and the remote-reservoir monotube KYB dampers are aluminum.

Brembo carbon-ceramic brake setup consists of discs 15.4 inches in diameter and six-piston monoblock calipers up front, with 14.2-inch discs and four-piston calipers at the back. Forged aluminum 20-inch BBS wheels sit inside bespoke 265/35 front and 305/30 rear Bridgestone Potenza tires.

Exotic features of this engine include titanium valves and connecting rods, individual throttle bodies for each cylinder, carbon- and silicon-coated rocker arms with integrated oil jets, and magnesium alloy cam covers

The LFA uses a central carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic monocoque with aluminum subframes at the front and rear, which are bolted on and reinforced with glue.
Those don't sound like inferior components to me. yeah it's expensive. But hey, in today's age, 350K carbon fiber bodied cars are a dime a dozen. Would I buy one? Nope. I would buy a 430 Scuderia in a heart beat. But I can give credit where credit is due.
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