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      10-24-2009, 03:25 PM   #23
scollins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
You really dont believe it is about oil? Too much Fox for you.

PS. ~15% of crude is already supplied by Canada.
Canada is the #1 supplier of crude to the USA, and on a year to date basis, accounts for 23% of the oil supplied by the Top 15 Exporters to the USA. Iraq's exports to the US total 5.4% of the Top 15 YTD. If the war was about oil, I'd expect to be getting a much larger chunk of Iraq's exports....

Of those Top 15 Exporters, non-Persian Gulf countries account for 79% of the total, while Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait (the only 3 PG countries in the US's Top 15) account for the remaining 21%. 58% of the USA's imports from the Top 15 are from the Americas (North-South.)

Source: DOE's Website for Oil & Gas Imports.
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      10-24-2009, 07:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Based on your silly logic the MSNBC guys if from Quebec as well? PS I am not from Quebec.
Chris Matthews is not the brightest bulb.


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Not sure what you mean? US sanctions were responsible for Iraqi deaths? I was pointing out that if indeed US invaded Iraq to save people from the ruthless dictator it didn't work based on the yearly death toll of Iraqis.
The UN placed sanctions on Saddam's Iraq. According to multiple NGO's these sanctions were responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children dying. Far more than have died from the war.


Quote:
I think you are right with the taxes it varies by province and have to include sales as well as excise taxes. Here is a good breakdown based on 2007 numbers. http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx

Regardless of the taxes, the US federal government provides the oil industry with numerous tax breaks designed to ensure that domestic companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.
So, the answer to why our consumer price is lower is taxes, so back to your MP's.
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      10-24-2009, 09:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Chris Matthews is not the brightest bulb.
Are you simple? It is about oil that is it! What other reason is their?



Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
The UN placed sanctions on Saddam's Iraq. According to multiple NGO's these sanctions were responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children dying. Far more than have died from the war.
Annual deaths during Saddam rule: between 25,000 to 50,000
Annual deaths during U.S. Occupation: about 66,00


Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
So, the answer to why our consumer price is lower is taxes, so back to your MP's.
AGAIN. The US federal government provides the oil industry with numerous tax breaks designed to ensure that domestic companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.

Its not about taxes at the pumps. Its tax breaks to big oil to keep prices low. The rest of the world suffers so you can drive a Hummer.

Take off the blinders man Wake up!
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      10-24-2009, 09:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Canada is the #1 supplier of crude to the USA, and on a year to date basis, accounts for 23% of the oil supplied by the Top 15 Exporters to the USA. Iraq's exports to the US total 5.4% of the Top 15 YTD. If the war was about oil, I'd expect to be getting a much larger chunk of Iraq's exports....
Number 1 exporter not supplier. The cost to extract crude from tar sands is expensive. It only makes business sense at ~ $80/barrel. If the Iraq stabilizes the ratios will change.

Honestly, do you think the war was about anything other then oil?


Just wait till you realize you need us for electricity and water.
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      10-24-2009, 09:24 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Are you simple? It is about oil that is it! What other reason is their?
You run around yelling "War for oil" with no evidence but I'm the simpleton? For crissakes, if we wanted the oil, we would have seized the fields and left the rest of the country to rot. Hell, we could taken the oil in 1991. The fact that we do not get a significant portion of our oil from Iraq, we do not get the oil we do get from them at any discount, and that there are plenty of sources of oil more conveniently located that we haven't taken all contradict your claim.

Quote:
Annual deaths during Saddam rule: between 25,000 to 50,000
Annual deaths during U.S. Occupation: about 66,00
Source?

As I said, there were estimates that the sanctions were responsible for the deaths of half a million children from 1992-2002. Even half that number is more than double the amount of deaths caused by the war.

Quote:
AGAIN. The US federal government provides the oil industry with numerous tax breaks designed to ensure that domestic companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.

Its not about taxes at the pumps. Its tax breaks to big oil to keep prices low. The rest of the world suffers so you can drive a Hummer.

Take off the blinders man Wake up!
From factcheck.org:

Quote:
Oil Company Tax Breaks?

Both leading Democratic candidates have referred to tax breaks to oil companies:

Clinton, July 23, 2007: First of all, I have proposed a strategic energy fund that I would fund by taking away the tax break for the oil companies, which have gotten much greater under Bush and Cheney.

Obama, June 22, 2007: In the face of furious lobbying, Congress brushed aside incentives for the production of more renewable fuels in favor of more tax breaks for the oil and gas companies.

Both candidates are referring to H.R. 6, the 2005 energy bill that contained $14.3 billion in subsidies for energy companies. However, as we’ve reported numerous times, a vast majority of those subsidies (all but $2.8 billion) were for nuclear power, energy-efficient cars and buildings, and renewable fuels research. In addition, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the tax changes in the 2005 energy bill produced a net tax increase for the oil and gas companies, as we’ve reported time and time and time again. They did get some breaks, but they had more taken away.
Even if the US were to subsidize the oil companies, that does not prevent Canada or any other nation from doing the same.

How does the world suffer because Americans drive Hummers?

FWIW, I love how people on this board slam Hummers. Nvm that you can get a Hummer that gets the same mileage as an M3 or if you want the V8 it's mileage is still better than the X5M.

Last edited by shpirate87; 10-24-2009 at 09:41 PM.
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      10-25-2009, 01:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
I am all for stopping the war but cutting off foreign aid is a no no. Rich countries have a responsibility to the less fortunate. You cut off foreign aid any you really become a target for terrorism.
last I read Canada is not at war. i am confused?
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      10-25-2009, 09:48 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
You run around yelling "War for oil" with no evidence but I'm the simpleton? For crissakes, if we wanted the oil, we would have seized the fields and left the rest of the country to rot. Hell, we could taken the oil in 1991. The fact that we do not get a significant portion of our oil from Iraq, we do not get the oil we do get from them at any discount, and that there are plenty of sources of oil more conveniently located that we haven't taken all contradict your claim.
What do you think the Iraq war is over? Seriously if not oil then what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Source?

As I said, there were estimates that the sanctions were responsible for the deaths of half a million children from 1992-2002. Even half that number is more than double the amount of deaths caused by the war.



From factcheck.org:
The numbers I have been hearing are in excess of 600k.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Even if the US were to subsidize the oil companies, that does not prevent Canada or any other nation from doing the same.
That is the point. other nations dont do it because money is better spent elsewhere then oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
How does the world suffer because Americans drive Hummers?
A number of reasons, higher prices, environment, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
FWIW, I love how people on this board slam Hummers. Nvm that you can get a Hummer that gets the same mileage as an M3 or if you want the V8 it's mileage is still better than the X5M.
No one is slamming Hummers, just used it as an example..replace hummer with Toyota if it makes you feel better. the cost per gallon at the pump is the same.
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      10-25-2009, 09:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
last I read Canada is not at war. i am confused?
You are kidding right? You really dont know that Canada has been involved in the Afghanistan war since 2001?

Typical.
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      10-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Amusing thread so far. As a US citizen, I've been indoctrinated to believe the Iraq war was about oil. After all, that's what every news organization and every liberal politician has told me.

Well, if that's true...when do I get the oil? It's been 8 years now, and I'm getting a little impatient. They promised me a war for oil. We got the war, now dang-in, I want the oil.

BTW, your myopic question is a bit annoying. I guess you conveniently forgot the list of 7 or 8 justifications for war that Powell gave before the UN -- none of which included a statement about oil -- and only one of which included a statement about WMD's.
Explain to me what you believe the war is about?

Powell was initially against the war. As for the justifications did you not hear they were all based on false intelligence or lies. It is all BS.
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      10-25-2009, 04:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
You are kidding right? You really dont know that Canada has been involved in the Afghanistan war since 2001?

Typical.
I know that the Canadian forces have been active in Afghanistan. I believe that Canadian snipers hold the record for the longest confirmed kill (~2,400 meters!!!) That's 1.5 miles! Holy hell.

RIP Major Yannick Pépin and Corporal Jean-François Drouin (KIA 9/6/09.)
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      10-25-2009, 05:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
You are kidding right? You really dont know that Canada has been involved in the Afghanistan war since 2001?

Typical.
sorry - I thought the Canadiens are peace loving socialists. maybe you should get your own country in order.
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      10-25-2009, 06:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
I am all for stopping the war but cutting off foreign aid is a no no. Rich countries have a responsibility to the less fortunate. You cut off foreign aid any you really become a target for terrorism.
Is this a bonafide republican position? I cant believe the insanity of this statement.
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      10-25-2009, 06:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Explain to me what you believe the war is about?

Powell was initially against the war. As for the justifications did you not hear they were all based on false intelligence or lies. It is all BS.
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      10-26-2009, 07:56 AM   #36
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sorry - I thought the Canadiens are peace loving socialists. maybe you should get your own country in order.
Well of coarse we are peace loving. Aren't you? As for socialists..not quite, we do have socialized programs but we are just as capitalist as the next guy.

You like to point out that Canada are the socialists...do you not see what is going on in the US. the govt own mortgages, banks, manufactures. You guys are skipping right over socialism and heading right for communism.

As for getting our own country in order. We think it is. We volunteered to help you out with your Afgan war. You have to learn to clean up your own messes.
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      10-26-2009, 07:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mighty M View Post
Is this a bonafide republican position? I cant believe the insanity of this statement.
What is insane about it? Its foreign policies that started the whole mess.
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      10-26-2009, 09:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
What do you think the Iraq war is over? Seriously if not oil then what?
Let's see, maybe Iraq had been considered a threat since they invaded Kuwait and had to be forcibly removed. Maybe 9/11 changed the risk the US was willing to accept. Maybe the belief that terrorists were more interested in making a statement than in causing mass casualties was no longer operative. Maybe given this new reality, the threat posed by a tyrant who had a long history of supporting terrorists, a long history of developing and using the types of weapons that if used in a terror attack could make 9/11 look like a traffic accident, was suspected (by everyone) of maintaining stocks of those weapons, and had proven himself impervious to the most stringent sanctions ever imposed by the international community was a threat the US could no longer tolerate.

Makes more sense than oil.


Quote:
The numbers I have been hearing are in excess of 600k.
That number came from the discredited 'Lancet' study. All the other estimates, both private and government are in the 100-150K range.

Quote:
That is the point. other nations dont do it because money is better spent elsewhere then oil.
That is their prerogative. Don't bitch at us because we made a different decision.

Quote:
A number of reasons, higher prices, environment, etc.
No we are going to get environmental lectures from the guy with the 300hp sub-compact?
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      10-26-2009, 10:26 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
last I read Canada is not at war. i am confused?
You can read??

Canada has been in Afganistan since 2001, iirc.
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      10-26-2009, 10:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
a long history of developing and using the types of weapons that if used in a terror attack could make 9/11 look like a traffic accident,
By "developing" do you not mean "buying from the US"?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...al-weapons.do#
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      10-26-2009, 11:29 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
By "developing" do you not mean "buying from the US"?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...al-weapons.do#
The samples we allowed to be transferred to Iraq were NOT weapons. They were from the American Type Culture Collection which is a biological research center, NOT a weapons manufaturer. The ATCC routinely transfers samples to other nations for non-military research purposes. If Iraq misused the samples they were given, that is a strike against them not us.
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      10-26-2009, 12:26 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
The samples we allowed to be transferred to Iraq were NOT weapons. They were from the American Type Culture Collection which is a biological research center, NOT a weapons manufaturer. The ATCC routinely transfers samples to other nations for non-military research purposes. If Iraq misused the samples they were given, that is a strike against them not us.
Do you actually believe that the US gave them those samples for any reason other than weapons development to enable Iraq to defeat Iran?
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      10-26-2009, 12:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
Do you actually believe that the US gave them those samples for any reason other than weapons development to enable Iraq to defeat Iran?
Let's look at the evidence.

- The hard part about using anthrax as a weapon is the 'weaponization' of the samples not obtaining the samples. We did not transfer weaponized anthrax to Iraq.

- The Iraqis never used anthrax, botulism, or any other bio weapon against Iran. They used only chemical weapons.

What evidence do you have to support your idea of why we allowed the transfer?
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      10-26-2009, 12:39 PM   #44
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Well of coarse we are peace loving. Aren't you?
Not according to a lot of the crazies in the world. The way they tell it, you'd think we were all running around dressed up like Rambo.
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