E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > Government to control what YOUR get paid!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-11-2009, 01:00 PM   #1
EDK99
Captain
 
Drives: 07 E85 M
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 935
iTrader: (0)

Government to control what YOUR get paid!

First it was companies that got bailouts now the government wants to control ALL employee compensation for public companies!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Admini...0519.html?.v=6

I just want to barf at the thought of this. I guess it should not be to shocking given this administration move towards socialism.

I guess when you have a president that has ZERO executive experience and couldn't run the corner lemonade stand that he doesn't understand when you reduce peoples pay your also reducing the income tax they pay. Oh wait he will just raise that more.

Unbelievable...Barney Frank at his best
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=359093
__________________
2007 e85
Imola Red | Black Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats
EDK99 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2009, 01:43 PM   #2
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

How do you make the leap from enacting legislation that allows owners of a company to decide on pay for management to the government deciding what everyone makes?
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-11-2009, 04:55 PM   #3
Nixon
Banned
 
Drives: :
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: :

Posts: 1,396
iTrader: (0)

The only direct mediations over pay will be for the top 25 executives of the 7 companies where the US is now the largest single stockholder. That is a total of 175 people in the entire US that will be directly impacted. That's all.

"Obama administration’s “special master” on executive pay, will have authority to regulate compensation for 175 executives at seven companies that received “exceptional” government help."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9fdMzFJAHVc

I find no conflict in ensuring that US tax dollars aren't funneled out of these companies through irresponsible executive compensation packages. It is appropriate for the US in it's role as the largest stockholder in these companies to send a mediator to represent our stockholder interests.

This is nothing different than what any other major stockholder in any other company would do.

It would be irresponsible for the gov't NOT to protect US taxpayer dollars that are temporarily invested in these companies from being all lost to excessive executive compensation packages.

-----------------------------------------------------------------


I don't see any problem in limiting the compensation for individuals who wouldn't even have a job right now because of their own poor management of their own companies. They only have jobs because it was in the best interest for the US economy for them all not to fail all at once when the economy was at the brink of destruction last summer.

Now that the commercial credit market is no longer at the brink of complete failure, some of these companies will go the way of GM and Chrysler anyways. They will be split up and killed in an orderly and organized fashion, the way AIG is being sold off to private investors piece by piece right now.

The value that the US tax payers get out of their money is that this is done in an orderly and organized fashion such that the failure of these companies will not utterly destory the entire US economy with them. So far, it's been working. We've had a much softer landing than had we just allowed the entire US banking system to crash and go out of business all at once.

Many people fail to recognize that the banking system was saved from utter destruction last summer by the joint action of Democrats and Republicans. These folks have the same mentality that takes for granted that there haven't been any terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11. Pretending that a disaster being averted is a non-event by sticking their heads in the sand and pretending there never was a threat.
Nixon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-14-2009, 04:13 AM   #4
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,844
iTrader: (0)

we need a Pay Czar to make sure we all get paid the same. its called equaility. from the GM union worker that get paid to stay home and is garunteed a job for life or until death becasue a robot replaced his job to the managment executive for a multi-billion dollar corpoaration that can be fire by one vote - all the same, all for one and one for all. !
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2009, 03:49 PM   #5
EDK99
Captain
 
Drives: 07 E85 M
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 935
iTrader: (0)

Digging up the old thread...

Here it comes. Government to slash Executive pay up to 90% at companies that got bailed out.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/33417281
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJYVn5B5q1AY
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-pla....html?x=0&.v=1

So what do people do when there pay gets cut by 90%. I for one would be looking for a new job! So now all these bailed out companies are going to have a mass exodus and fail again. Good job government!! I guess this is what a socialist government does.
__________________
2007 e85
Imola Red | Black Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats
EDK99 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2009, 04:41 PM   #6
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EK_335i View Post
Digging up the old thread...

Here it comes. Government to slash Executive pay up to 90% at companies that got bailed out.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/33417281
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJYVn5B5q1AY
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-pla....html?x=0&.v=1

So what do people do when there pay gets cut by 90%. I for one would be looking for a new job! So now all these bailed out companies are going to have a mass exodus and fail again. Good job government!! I guess this is what a socialist government does.

First, this only applies to the top 25 best paid executives at the company, ie the people who would have most likely made the horrible decisions that necessitated the bail out. Second, these folk have been paid very, very well over their careers and will be just fine. Third, without the bail out most of these people would be unemployed when their companies went bust.

Hell, I work on a trading floor (not a TARP bank) and I have no problem with this at all.
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2009, 05:29 PM   #7
JB135i
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SW burbs

Posts: 478
iTrader: (0)

It all good to come to the forum and complain....

But if this stuff really bothers you get involved in some campaigns for good people in your districts/counties/states.

More and more reasonable Democrats are seeing what's going on, and of course us Republicans have seen it all along. Get good people elected!
JB135i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2009, 09:52 PM   #8
lib
Major
 
lib's Avatar
 
Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

Posts: 1,405
iTrader: (0)

This random WSJ article probably sums it up best:
Quote:
Citigroup agreed to revamp the contracts of a handful of traders and senior investment bankers, according to people familiar with the matter. But several Citigroup officials briefed on the company's dialogue with Mr. Feinberg's office said salaries and total compensation of the company's highest-paid employees aren't expected to shrink dramatically.

Partly as a result, some Citigroup officials on Wednesday dismissed as political posturing reports that Mr. Feinberg intended to slash pay packages by 50% or more. One executive described it as "a bit of a hoax."
lib is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2009, 10:46 PM   #9
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,844
iTrader: (0)

the FEDs have controlled Pay for years. as a give away to the unions. every federal or california state (google Davis beacon) dollar to any public works project SHALL pay government listed prevaiing wages. this garuntees our tax dollars are not used efficently and will go to union shops.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 09:49 AM   #10
lyndon_h
Lieutenant Colonel
 
lyndon_h's Avatar
 
Drives: e90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Madagascar

Posts: 1,920
iTrader: (2)

Selective reading at its best or worse...

I thought it was interesting how many of the companies who didn't like some the ultimatums given by the govt decided that they would repay the loaned money at a much faster rate. Isn't that what we want? There has to be a deterant for companies to take public money.
lyndon_h is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 04:42 PM   #11
EDK99
Captain
 
Drives: 07 E85 M
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 935
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
Selective reading at its best or worse...

I thought it was interesting how many of the companies who didn't like some the ultimatums given by the govt decided that they would repay the loaned money at a much faster rate. Isn't that what we want? There has to be a deterant for companies to take public money.
The only thing cutting pay will do is deter them from continuing to work for that company.

It is funny how the government controlled AIG's CEO gets a nice compensation package. How much of our money did AIG get????
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/06/news...berg/index.htm

What a joke.

The bigger joke is we have this Pay Czar who was appointed by Obama, did not have to go through Senate confirmations and only reports to Obama and can dictate executive pay at companies.
__________________
2007 e85
Imola Red | Black Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats
EDK99 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 04:49 PM   #12
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EK_335i View Post
The only thing cutting pay will do is deter them from continuing to work for that company.

It is funny how the government controlled AIG's CEO gets a nice compensation package. How much of our money did AIG get????
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/06/news...berg/index.htm

What a joke.

The bigger joke is we have this Pay Czar who was appointed by Obama, did not have to go through Senate confirmations and only reports to Obama and can dictate executive pay at companies.
So which is it, should the compensation czar allow market comp for CEOs or not? The AIG guy didn't cause the mess and he's now being paid inline with other CEOs with a large protion of his pay being restricted and deferred. And subject to clawback.

Oh, and those folks who might be detered from working for TARP banks, if anyone wanted them, and if they wanted to move they'd be gone by now. The fact that they are sticking around means they don't want to leave or no-one wants them.
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 05:00 PM   #13
lib
Major
 
lib's Avatar
 
Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

Posts: 1,405
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
Oh, and those folks who might be detered from working for TARP banks, if anyone wanted them, and if they wanted to move they'd be gone by now. The fact that they are sticking around means they don't want to leave or no-one wants them.


As far as I'm aware this news was a surprise to everyone. For them to go somewhere else due to this they first needed to know about it. Or are you suggesting that they all make career choices with a crystal-ball?

I will agree with you that they aren't going anywhere but I have a much simpler reason why not. Despite what's being said they aren't actually getting a pay cut. If some guy had a total compensation of $10M/yr before this you can rest assured that he'll still end up with a total compensation of at least $10M/yr after.

Last edited by lib; 10-22-2009 at 05:19 PM.
lib is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 05:31 PM   #14
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lib View Post


As far as I'm aware this news was a surprise to everyone. For them to go somewhere else due to this they first needed to know about it. Or are you suggesting that they all make career choices with a crystal-ball?

I will agree with you that they aren't going anywhere but I have a much simpler reason why not. Despite what's being said they aren't actually getting a pay cut. If some guy had a total compensation of $10M/yr before this you can rest assured that he'll still end up with a total compensation of at least $10M/yr after.
Funny, every NY or London based trading floor person I know was pretty certain the TARP banks would have some sort of comp cap, and many left the TARP banks because of it. But yeah, roll you eyes as much as you want when someone who actually knows what's going on is speaking.
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 05:51 PM   #15
lib
Major
 
lib's Avatar
 
Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

Posts: 1,405
iTrader: (0)

^ kk. Let me know when that person shows up

Edit:
I'm sure you'll misunderstand that so I'll say a bit more...

The article linked by the OP is talking only about the top 25 executives spread across all of the bailout companies (aka, the top few executives at each company).

The desk/floor traders you know may be worried about their pay but they're pretty low on the totem pole compared to the people we're talking about. If you think the "top 25" are going to see much of a change you're kidding yourself. The changes will be in name only.

Last edited by lib; 10-22-2009 at 06:31 PM.
lib is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2009, 06:14 PM   #16
EDK99
Captain
 
Drives: 07 E85 M
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 935
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
So which is it, should the compensation czar allow market comp for CEOs or not? The AIG guy didn't cause the mess and he's now being paid inline with other CEOs with a large protion of his pay being restricted and deferred. And subject to clawback.

Oh, and those folks who might be detered from working for TARP banks, if anyone wanted them, and if they wanted to move they'd be gone by now. The fact that they are sticking around means they don't want to leave or no-one wants them.
That is funny. Maybe all these executives should just swap companies. Since they did not cause the mess at their new company they would be paid like the AIG guy. Brilliant!!
__________________
2007 e85
Imola Red | Black Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats
EDK99 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 06:48 AM   #17
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EK_335i View Post
That is funny. Maybe all these executives should just swap companies. Since they did not cause the mess at their new company they would be paid like the AIG guy. Brilliant!!
How did Met Life do during the crisis?
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 06:50 AM   #18
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lib View Post
^ kk. Let me know when that person shows up

Edit:
I'm sure you'll misunderstand that so I'll say a bit more...

The article linked by the OP is talking only about the top 25 executives spread across all of the bailout companies (aka, the top few executives at each company).

The desk/floor traders you know may be worried about their pay but they're pretty low on the totem pole compared to the people we're talking about. If you think the "top 25" are going to see much of a change you're kidding yourself. The changes will be in name only.
I'm talking about top 25 people. My bank has hired several former top 25 people from TARP banks.

Here's an article from the Washington Post talking about defections, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=sec-business you'll notice that many people left long before this ruling came out. The ones who are left couldn't get an offer, or want to stay to rehab their image.

Last edited by jaiman; 10-23-2009 at 08:49 AM.
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 09:06 AM   #19
lib
Major
 
lib's Avatar
 
Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

Posts: 1,405
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
I'm talking about top 25 people. My bank has hired several former top 25 people from TARP banks.

Here's an article from the Washington Post talking about defections, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=sec-business you'll notice that many people left long before this ruling came out. The ones who are left couldn't get an offer, or want to stay to rehab their image.
It doesn't surprise me that people are moving around. My point is I don't expect there to be any significant change, even for the people that are directly targeted by this.

The last three paragraphs of that article express a similar view:
Quote:
But Nomi Prins, a former Goldman Sachs employee, said Feinberg's rulings are unlikely to change the culture of bonuses on Wall Street.

"I don't think Wall Street is afraid of this at all," said Prins, author of "It Takes a Pillage: Behind the Bailouts, Bonuses, and Backroom Deals from Washington to Wall Street."

"It's going to affect a small portion of a small portion of the industry. It won't have a lasting impact."
lib is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 09:19 AM   #20
EDK99
Captain
 
Drives: 07 E85 M
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL

Posts: 935
iTrader: (0)

This is way bigger then the top 25 people at the TARP handout companies getting pay reductions. This is just the start of government control over what you can make if you got TARP funds or not.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...executive-pay/

Quote:
In a similar move, the Federal Reserve is proposing for the first time to police banks' pay policies to ensure they don't encourage employees to take reckless gambles like those that contributed to the financial crisis.

Unlike the Treasury plan, the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout. The Fed would not actually set compensation. Instead, the central bank would review -- and could veto -- pay policies that could cause too much risk-taking by executives, traders or loan officers.
This is just the start. First banking then automotive, oh and airlines too and what about software companies? Is Microsoft to big to fail? What about drug companies, natural resources companies like oil, power. What about your company?

Sounds like socialism to me.
__________________
2007 e85
Imola Red | Black Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats
EDK99 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 09:35 AM   #21
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EK_335i View Post
This is way bigger then the top 25 people at the TARP handout companies getting pay reductions. This is just the start of government control over what you can make if you got TARP funds or not.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...executive-pay/



This is just the start. First banking then automotive, oh and airlines too and what about software companies? Is Microsoft to big to fail? What about drug companies, natural resources companies like oil, power. What about your company?

Sounds like socialism to me.
Did you actually read the Fed proposal? It includes gems like if 2 traders generate the same revenue, the one who takes less risk should be paid more. That's not socialism, that's good business. And it was generally what happened. The problem was that some traders were genereating profits that were so massive there was no-one generating similar profits with lower rsik levels to compare comp to.

As for your ramblings about airlines and Microsoft, if they ever need to be bailed out, yes I'd expect the Gov to be able to put pay caps on them. The other option is that the companies fail and these folks are unemployed. Now whether the government should intervene with auto makers, airlines and software companies is a whole other debate.
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2009, 09:38 AM   #22
jaiman
Captain
 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 657
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lib View Post
It doesn't surprise me that people are moving around. My point is I don't expect there to be any significant change, even for the people that are directly targeted by this.

The last three paragraphs of that article express a similar view:
So you think a top executive at AIG getting 200k is business as usual?
jaiman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST