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      10-24-2009, 02:35 AM   #1
sayemthree
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Health care to cost ANOTHER $1 TRILLION!!!!!

WASHINGTON - Health care legislation taking shape in the House carries a price tag of at least $1 trillion

and do you think you government representatives will be covered by this ill concienved plan? noooooo!!! they already have thier own fully paid medical plans, the best there is. I think that whoever votes for this should stand in line for health care in the future like the rest of us will.
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      10-24-2009, 07:19 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
WASHINGTON - Health care legislation taking shape in the House carries a price tag of at least $1 trillion

and do you think you government representatives will be covered by this ill concienved plan? noooooo!!! they already have thier own fully paid medical plans, the best there is. I think that whoever votes for this should stand in line for health care in the future like the rest of us will.

Thats 1/2 price compared to the cost of the Iraq war to date. Really shows where the priorities are don't it?
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      10-24-2009, 07:51 AM   #3
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Thats 1/2 price compared to the cost of the Iraq war to date. Really shows where the priorities are don't it?
And we give 50 billion/yr is foreign aid...I say....bring all the troops home, cut off all foreign aid...and their should be a few dollars left over for our homeless, schools and healthcare for all
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      10-24-2009, 08:51 AM   #4
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      10-24-2009, 09:29 AM   #5
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And we give 50 billion/yr is foreign aid...I say....bring all the troops home, cut off all foreign aid...and their should be a few dollars left over for our homeless, schools and healthcare for all
I am all for stopping the war but cutting off foreign aid is a no no. Rich countries have a responsibility to the less fortunate. You cut off foreign aid any you really become a target for terrorism.
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      10-24-2009, 11:02 AM   #6
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Thats 1/2 price compared to the cost of the Iraq war to date.

That is BS, the Iraq war has not cost the US Gov't. $2 Trillion dollars to date. I know there are a ton of "studies" out there that say the "true" cost of the war is that high, when they try to factor in things like lost productivity, future health care expenses for veterans, increased cost of goods, etc. Those are not hard and fast figures, just estimates and conjectures, but not what has actually been spent out of the Treasury.

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Really shows where the priorities are don't it?
From a pure Federal government perspective as envisioned by the Founding Fathers and the Constitution, fighting wars is what the federal government SHOULD be doing, not providing health care.
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      10-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #7
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I am all for stopping the war but cutting off foreign aid is a no no. Rich countries have a responsibility to the less fortunate. You cut off foreign aid any you really become a target for terrorism.
So we haven't really been a target of terrorism yet? I guess all that aid we have been sending out must be viewed as an insult, and we should increase it 10 fold....

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      10-24-2009, 12:27 PM   #8
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That is BS, the Iraq war has not cost the US Gov't. $2 Trillion dollars to date. I know there are a ton of "studies" out there that say the "true" cost of the war is that high, when they try to factor in things like lost productivity, future health care expenses for veterans, increased cost of goods, etc. Those are not hard and fast figures, just estimates and conjectures, but not what has actually been spent out of the Treasury.
You are right. I think the projected cost was close to 3 trillion. Either way still expensive.


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From a pure Federal government perspective as envisioned by the Founding Fathers and the Constitution, fighting wars is what the federal government SHOULD be doing, not providing health care.
I dont imagine the founding fathers intended to wage war on countries to keep gas in the family Buick.
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      10-24-2009, 12:49 PM   #9
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You are right. I think the projected cost was close to 3 trillion. Either way still expensive.
The cost of the Iraq War to date is less than $700 billion.

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I dont imagine the founding fathers intended to wage war on countries to keep gas in the family Buick.
Right, the war was about oil.

If we wanted oil, we would not need to go to Iraq. We would just go north.
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      10-24-2009, 01:00 PM   #10
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The cost of the Iraq War to date is less than $700 billion.



Right, the war was about oil.

If we wanted oil, we would not need to go to Iraq. We would just go north.
You really dont believe it is about oil? Too much Fox for you.

PS. ~15% of crude is already supplied by Canada.
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      10-24-2009, 01:04 PM   #11
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You really dont believe it is about oil? Too much Fox for you.

PS. ~15% of crude is already supplied by Canada.
No, it is not about oil. What evidence do you have that it was. Is Iraq oil now under US control? Do we get it t a discounted rate?

If we just wanted to invade a country to get their oil we would just take yours. You are more convenient and a lot less dangerous.
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      10-24-2009, 01:15 PM   #12
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No, it is not about oil. What evidence do you have that it was. Is Iraq oil now under US control? Do we get it t a discounted rate?

If we just wanted to invade a country to get their oil we would just take yours. You are more convenient and a lot less dangerous.
Are you kidding me? Even McCain admitted the war is about oil. Honestly..what do you think it was about? WMDs? Iraq was more stable when Sadam was in power then it is now.

And yes, Americans do have a huge discount on oil compared to other countries.

As for your last statement. Grow up.
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      10-24-2009, 01:20 PM   #13
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No, it is not about oil.


Sure thing. It was all about all of those WMDs that they found.

Oh wait.
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      10-24-2009, 01:22 PM   #14
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Are you kidding me? Even McCain admitted the war is about oil. Honestly..what do you think it was about? WMDs? Iraq was more stable when Sadam was in power then it is now.

And yes, Americans do have a huge discount on oil compared to other countries.

As for your last statement. Grow up.
McCain said we invaded Iraq to get their oil? When?

The Soviet Union was also more stable under Stalin than Russia is today. What is your point?

Americans pay less for oil than other people? Does that mean you think Exxon-Mobil pays less than Shell or BP for oil on the world market? Or just that Iraq sells it to Exxon cheaper?
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      10-24-2009, 01:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
McCain said we invaded Iraq to get their oil? When?
Google it.

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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
The Soviet Union was also more stable under Stalin than Russia is today. What is your point?
Thanks for proving it. Learn from history.

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Americans pay less for oil than other people? Does that mean you think Exxon-Mobil pays less than Shell or BP for oil on the world market? Or just that Iraq sells it to Exxon cheaper?
I only care what the price is at the consumer level. American oil is cheaper to US consumers at the expense of others.
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      10-24-2009, 01:48 PM   #16
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Google it.
You asserted it, substantiate it.

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Thanks for proving it. Learn from history.
Mass murderers who provide stability are your preferred form of government? Damn, you are sick.

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I only care what the price is at the consumer level. American oil is cheaper to US consumers at the expense of others.
American consumers pay less for oil because our government taxes it less. If you believe that is to your detriment, talk to your MP's.
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      10-24-2009, 02:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
You asserted it, substantiate it.


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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Mass murderers who provide stability are your preferred form of government? Damn, you are sick.
More casualties/year have resulted in Iraq while under US occupation then under Sadams control.


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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
American consumers pay less for oil because our government taxes it less. If you believe that is to your detriment, talk to your MP's.
Actually the average tax collected on a US Liter of gas is ~$.13. In Canada the average is ~$.16. Not much difference.

Generally...people need to take their heads out of their asses about what is going on in the world.
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      10-24-2009, 02:26 PM   #18
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The cost of the Iraq War to date is less than $700 billion.
I was looking this up the other day and the numbers I saw claimed that if you add up all of the additional congressional approvals from 9/11/01 to today they totaled just under $900 billion. Essentially $100 billion/yr. [1]

Does the OP's article claim (link it next time!) that health-care costs $1 trillion total or that it would add another $1 trillion to the deficit on top of what we already spend on health-care? Is that the cost after it's averaged over 10 years or is that the addition to the deficit in every year?

If it's $1 trillion spread over the next 10 years then you could claim it costs about the same as what we've been spending on the war on terror.

If it's adding $1 trillion to the deficit every year then you're essentially fighting another full war on terror every year.

Either way, it's a lot of money.

(If you don't like the phrase "the war on terror" that's your problem, I don't want to hear about it. It's a quick way to describe a large collection of things.)
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      10-24-2009, 02:40 PM   #19
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I am all for stopping the war but cutting off foreign aid is a no no. Rich countries have a responsibility to the less fortunate. You cut off foreign aid any you really become a target for terrorism.
Our country is not RICH...if China stopped buying our debt...the earth would stop rotating around its axis...

We have an unmanageable debt and are in no position to be giving money away or spending it on frivolous things...if the president were to call into Suze Orman's show...she would tell him to stop spending money

BTW...in case you haven't noticed...some of my posts are prone to hyperbole...but you get the point...
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      10-24-2009, 02:56 PM   #20
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I can only assume you are from Quebec because no one who speaks English as a first language would hear that as saying we went to Iraq to take their oil.

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More casualties/year have resulted in Iraq while under US occupation then under Sadams control.
I guess you weren't one who believed that the sanctions were killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children.

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Actually the average tax collected on a US Liter of gas is ~$.13. In Canada the average is ~$.16. Not much difference.

Generally...people need to take their heads out of their asses about what is going on in the world.
What is your source for this? I usually avoided citing Wiki but they have the average gas tax for Canada at $1.19 (US)/gallon vs. $0.49 in the US.

If it is not the taxes, what do you believe explains the price disparity? Is Canada paying more for its own oil than they are charging us?
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      10-24-2009, 03:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lib View Post
I was looking this up the other day and the numbers I saw claimed that if you add up all of the additional congressional approvals from 9/11/01 to today they totaled just under $900 billion. Essentially $100 billion/yr. [1]

Does the OP's article claim (link it next time!) that health-care costs $1 trillion total or that it would add another $1 trillion to the deficit on top of what we already spend on health-care? Is that the cost after it's averaged over 10 years or is that the addition to the deficit in every year?
...
I believe the $900 billion figure is for both Iraq & Afghanistan. The number I cited was Iraq only.

The numbers I have seen thrown around for health care are for 10 years. What is interesting about the Baucus bill which is supposed to add nothing to the deficit is that it gets that by starting the taxes 5 years before the program takes effect. So you get to include 10 years of taxes for 5 years of expenses.
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      10-24-2009, 03:24 PM   #22
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I can only assume you are from Quebec because no one who speaks English as a first language would hear that as saying we went to Iraq to take their oil.
Based on your silly logic the MSNBC guys if from Quebec as well? PS I am not from Quebec.


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I guess you weren't one who believed that the sanctions were killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children.
Not sure what you mean? US sanctions were responsible for Iraqi deaths? I was pointing out that if indeed US invaded Iraq to save people from the ruthless dictator it didn't work based on the yearly death toll of Iraqis.


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What is your source for this? I usually avoided citing Wiki but they have the average gas tax for Canada at $1.19 (US)/gallon vs. $0.49 in the US.

If it is not the taxes, what do you believe explains the price disparity? Is Canada paying more for its own oil than they are charging us?
I think you are right with the taxes it varies by province and have to include sales as well as excise taxes. Here is a good breakdown based on 2007 numbers. http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/2139.aspx

Regardless of the taxes, the US federal government provides the oil industry with numerous tax breaks designed to ensure that domestic companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.
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