E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Take 3: Vishnu 335i coupe Tuning Update



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-12-2006, 11:04 AM   #265
ahnh77
chichen
 
ahnh77's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 325xi
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: san francisco (south beach), ca

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to ahnh77 Send a message via MSN to ahnh77 Send a message via Yahoo to ahnh77
i'm definitely interested....in taking a look at your work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Hi,
Other Stuff
We're thinking about organizing a little meet here in the Blackhawk auto museum. Perhaps next weekend. We think it would be a nice opportunity to grab some good grub, meet everyone, and kick some tires. We'll have our car there and will be offering test drives/rides to anyone who is interested. Anyone?

I think that just about covers it. If you have any more questions, let me know.

Cheers,
shiv
ahnh77 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:04 AM   #266
thinbev
proud BMW 335 owner
 
thinbev's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Highland Beach, FL

Posts: 117
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Pricing
Without have final pricing from our exhaust manufacturer, we hope to see the price of the full 380bhp kit to fall just under $3000. This includes Xede with reversible (no wire cutting) harness, aux. boost control solenoid and fully divorced dual 2.5" exhaust (with secondary cat deletes). Our in-house dyno tuning rate is, as always, $250/hr. Each custom map should take no longer than 1 hour. So if you only need a 91oct map, expect 1 hour of tuning. If you need a 91 oct map and a 100oct map, expect up to 2 hours of tuning. Of course, valet maps or fuel economy maps don't require dyno tuning.
Shiv, could you give us more details on the Valet Map, Fuel Economy Map, and the Performance Map w/o the exhaust.

Thanks!
thinbev is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:16 AM   #267
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator
Shiv,

What's the est. price if you just want the Xede (shipped to another state)? Do you think you'll have reduced "introductory" or "Forum member" pricing for out-of-state customers as well, before the offical Xede release? I take it that just adding the Xede is possible without the whole exhaust system and custom maps kit and that the Xede alone will also add significant power gains w/o all the extras. Thanks.
The Xede alone will make power. However, one of the things about tuning its that it's always better to extract power from more than one area. Trying to make more power simply from ECU tuning deeply right into your margin of safety. It's doable, there is no doubt in my mind that adressing both the exhaust issue and the Xede will be better for the car. The idea of the exhaust is to relieve the engine of exhaust backpressure which is one of the biggest contributors of thermal stress and knock. With backpressure alleviated, we can take safey take advantage of things by tuning fuel/timing/boost more aggressively. Without improving the operating environment of the engine (by reducing backpressure, increasing octane or improving charge cooling), trying to tune things up can be tricky. That said, we will still offer Xede-only packages for those who simply cannot upgrade their exhaust for whatever reason. But probably not for a little while. We'll need to put the stock exhaust back on our car and do some more long term testing. As for price, expect the Xede alone to cost around $1300 with the harness and aux boost control solenoid.

Cheers,
Shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:24 AM   #268
sstarch1
From Russia With Boost
 
sstarch1's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i - Vroom
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 1,078
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Have you guys thought of a cever design for the XEDE switch (like the ashtray..or anything else)?
__________________
2007 BMW 335i - Delivered 9/8/06
Sparkling Grpahite with Black Leather/Aluminum Trim
Premium Package, Sports Package, Comfort Access.
sstarch1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:25 AM   #269
sflgator
Major General
 
sflgator's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: U.S.

Posts: 5,389
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The Xede alone will make power. However, one of the things about tuning its that it's always better to extract power from more than one area. Trying to make more power simply from ECU tuning deeply right into your margin of safety. It's doable, there is no doubt in my mind that adressing both the exhaust issue and the Xede will be better for the car. The idea of the exhaust is to relieve the engine of exhaust backpressure which is one of the biggest contributors of thermal stress and knock. With backpressure alleviated, we can take safey take advantage of things by tuning fuel/timing/boost more aggressively. Without improving the operating environment of the engine (by reducing backpressure, increasing octane or improving charge cooling), trying to tune things up can be tricky. That said, we will still offer Xede-only packages for those who simply cannot upgrade their exhaust for whatever reason. But probably not for a little while. We'll need to put the stock exhaust back on our car and do some more long term testing. As for price, expect the Xede alone to cost around $1300 with the harness and aux boost control solenoid.

Cheers,
Shiv

Thanks for your response. The reason I asked about that is b/c my car will be leased (for only 30 months), and I'm not interested in doing major mods, only to have to worry about them or remove them at lease turn-in. However, if the Xede alone will add, say another 30+ HP, it may be worthwhile, even if I have to remove it (I take it that it's relatively easy to remove) before turning the car in.

Also, one other question -- from your knowledge of the past, how will the Xede (as a standalone mod) compare with an updated performace chip from Dinan (again, another standalone mod w/o changing the exhaust, etc.)? I'm assuming you know a bit about what Dinan has done in the past to the BMW 3er's chip to increase power. Thanks again.
sflgator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:51 AM   #270
AHY
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 335i, e70 3.0 m-sport
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: N. California, East Bay

Posts: 332
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
This includes Xede with reversible (no wire cutting) harness, aux. boost control solenoid and fully divorced dual 2.5" exhaust (with secondary cat deletes).
More info in why your decided for a 2.5" rather than a 3".
AHY is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 11:53 AM   #271
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Shiv do you think theres enough space on the engine to put bigger turbos or an intercooler later on? (defenetly not now)
There is certainly enough space for larger turbos. It will involve casting new exhaust manifolds but its certainly doable. Although I'm not sure how many people will be looking to make over ~400bhp on pump gas. Bigger turbos start to make more sense on race gas when you have the ability to run the kind of boost they are capable of supporting. On pump gas, I'd be surprised if they offered much more power than stock. And they will certainly be laggier. And unless built with similar material as the stock turbos, they wont be as robust.

Quote:
Have you guys thought of a clever design for the XEDE switch (like the ashtray..or anything else)?
I don't know about clever but we do have some ideas We're thinking of just casting new ashtry inserts with an integrated switch in LED. I just have to look at how easy it would be to route the two necessary wires from under the hood, to the ashtray.

Quote:
Thanks for your response. The reason I asked about that is b/c my car will be leased (for only 30 months), and I'm not interested in doing major mods, only to have to worry about them or remove them at lease turn-in. However, if the Xede alone will add, say another 30+ HP, it may be worthwhile, even if I have to remove it (I take it that it's relatively easy to remove) before turning the car in.
There is nothing at major about upgrading the cat-back exhaust. You can easily put the factory exhaust back on later if you choose to for whatever reason. There are no seals to break or locks to crack Just a few bolts and voila.

Quote:
Also, one other question -- from your knowledge of the past, how will the Xede (as a standalone mod) compare with an updated performace chip from Dinan (again, another standalone mod w/o changing the exhaust, etc.)? I'm assuming you know a bit about what Dinan has done in the past to the BMW 3er's chip to increase power. Thanks again.
I've met Steve before. In fact, he was even nice enough to give me a tour of his Morgan Hill facility last year. It was very impressive. He's actually a very good friend of our very friend and test driver, Paul Gerrard. But to tell the truth, I'm really not that familiar with his products. I'm sure whatever he comes out with will be safe and stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHY
More info in why your decided for a 2.5" rather than a 3".
Because 3" is overkill. There are two separate exhaust systems on the car. As such, each system is asked to support 1/2 of total horsepower. So if we're making 380bhp, each exhaust system is only being asked to flow 190bhp worth of exhaust flow. That being the case, even 2.5" is a bit on the big side. All you will be gaining with going bigger is exhaust noise, in my opinion. Plus, trying get two 3" pipes running side-by-side down the transmission tunnel without rubbing against anything or banging around during cornering is tough. The stock exhaust is miserable being it is excessively bent and heavily crushed in many locations. The secondary cats also introduce a bunch of backpressure.

Cheers,
shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:03 PM   #272
inTgr8r
Major General
 
inTgr8r's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 M Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

Posts: 8,014
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Because 3" is overkill. There are two separate exhaust systems on the car. As such, each system is asked to support 1/2 of total horsepower. So if we're making 380bhp, each exhaust system is only being asked to flow 190bhp worth of exhaust flow. That being the case, even 2.5" is a bit on the big side. All you will be gaining with going bigger is exhaust noise, in my opinion. Plus, trying get two 3" pipes running side-by-side down the transmission tunnel without rubbing against anything or banging around during cornering is tough.

-shiv
^WHS
Also bigger can cool the exhaust gasses & reduce velocity.
inTgr8r is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:05 PM   #273
sstarch1
From Russia With Boost
 
sstarch1's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i - Vroom
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 1,078
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Yeah, get that Chevy Camaro exhaust sound out of here. Good work shiv, i love the idea of a ashtray switch.

Absolutely cannot wait.
__________________
2007 BMW 335i - Delivered 9/8/06
Sparkling Grpahite with Black Leather/Aluminum Trim
Premium Package, Sports Package, Comfort Access.
sstarch1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:06 PM   #274
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaViT
VIDEOS!!! =) good job shiv!
Ok!!



http://www.vishnutuning.com/Files/Vishnu%20BMW.mov

Note: The video was taken on the way to the 24hrs of LeMons endurance race on a flat road with 2 passengers, a trunk full of racing tools and a tank full of 91oct from Valero. So it's safe to say that it represents the lowest common denominator as far as performance goes. Still, 0-100mph should be around 10sec.

enjoy,
shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 10-12-2006 at 02:32 PM.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:08 PM   #275
PresaMat
Major
 
PresaMat's Avatar
 
Drives: 67 GT500,69 Boss 429, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston,TX

Posts: 1,170
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Shiv,

Do you think you will be squeezing much more power with the mandrel exhaust etc compared to the last dyno you posted? Im very excited for the products but am just curious what you think the average final HP to be. Thanks!

Mat

PS. YAY! for the video
PresaMat is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:12 PM   #276
BoostedBMW
Moderator
 
BoostedBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: TiAg E92 335
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 6,787
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to BoostedBMW
Shiv, I have been following this thread, and you have made some nice progress with your tuning. Have you thought about developing an intake also? I'm not concerned so much for power since gains would likely be minimal, but more for sound. I'm just wondering how an intake would have an effect on the tune if you were to add one later. Also, i'm assuming that an out of state customer that has 93 octane gas should expect around 330whp from the exede/exhaust without a custom tune, correct? Keep up the good work!
BoostedBMW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:15 PM   #277
anidjare
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: Le Mans E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Florida

Posts: 232
iTrader: (1)

Shiv:

When you say 380 hp, is that at the wheels or crank?
anidjare is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:20 PM   #278
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by anidjare
Shiv:

When you say 380 hp, is that at the wheels or crank?
When i say bhp, it is crank hp. When i say whp, it is wheel hp. I don't think I ever say just hp because it can get ambiguous

-shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:23 PM   #279
jerrygarcia
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335 sedan eventually
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston

Posts: 491
iTrader: (0)

shiv, what about the valet map?
jerrygarcia is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:25 PM   #280
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrygarcia
shiv, what about the valet map?
It'll be slower than stock. How much slower? I'm not sure. I'll basically make it run minimum boost, retarded timing and very rich AFR. I could do things such as induce a fuel cut above 4000rpm but that would be logged as a trouble code which is something we are trying to avoid for obvious reasons.

cheers,
shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:31 PM   #281
sstarch1
From Russia With Boost
 
sstarch1's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i - Vroom
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 1,078
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Some sort of codec on this movie?
__________________
2007 BMW 335i - Delivered 9/8/06
Sparkling Grpahite with Black Leather/Aluminum Trim
Premium Package, Sports Package, Comfort Access.
sstarch1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:33 PM   #282
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PresaMat
Shiv,

Do you think you will be squeezing much more power with the mandrel exhaust etc compared to the last dyno you posted? Im very excited for the products but am just curious what you think the average final HP to be. Thanks!

Mat

PS. YAY! for the video
After looking at it a bit, I really don't expect the product exhaust to make any more power than the current one. There are no even moderately sharp bends in the upgraded exhaust system. If there were, that would be another story. And with dual 2.5" pipes with straight-through mufflers, backpressure at the power levels we are talking about is as close to zero as we can hope to get.

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 10-12-2006 at 01:19 PM.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:43 PM   #283
thinbev
proud BMW 335 owner
 
thinbev's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Highland Beach, FL

Posts: 117
iTrader: (1)

Shiv, I'm interested in that fuel economy map. I drive most of the time very normaly and would like to get the best mileage possible out of my 335i. When I crave a little more "umph" I would like to press that switch in my ash tray and get that 380 hp.

Could you please tell us what exactly what the Xede will do to the car when it's on a fuel economy map?

Thanks and nice work!
thinbev is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 12:45 PM   #284
ericash
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2008 e93 328i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: HV, NY

Posts: 36
iTrader: (0)

Tuning

Shiv,

I live in NY, so if I were to buy the 380hp package (exhaust, xede) would I need tuning or will it be set up, from you, for my 335 sedan??

Would the 93 octane gas here effect the tune??
ericash is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 01:28 PM   #285
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbev
Shiv, I'm interested in that fuel economy map. I drive most of the time very normaly and would like to get the best mileage possible out of my 335i. When I crave a little more "umph" I would like to press that switch in my ash tray and get that 380 hp.

Could you please tell us what exactly what the Xede will do to the car when it's on a fuel economy map?

Thanks and nice work!
The fuel economy map, does almost the same things as the 380bhp map when it comes to maximizing fuel consumption. Both maps bump up timing and target learner A/F ratios during cruise/low load conditions. The only difference is that the 380bhp map builds boost at lower throttle angles. Which means that it feels much more "eager" to get up and go. As a result, it is more eager to consume fuel. If drive very casually (prolonged cruising), both the 380bhp map and the fuel economy map will deliver the same mpg. I've logged as much as 34-35mpg during extended highway cruise on the 380bhp map, FWIW.

Quote:
I live in NY, so if I were to buy the 380hp package (exhaust, xede) would I need tuning or will it be set up, from you, for my 335 sedan??

Would the 93 octane gas here effect the tune??
You will not need any additional tuning. While custom tuning will always help to some degree, the car should have no problem making the advertised hp without custom tuning. Especially on 93oct fuels. The only question in my mind is whether the exhaust will fit on a sedan since we have only tested it on a coupe. I'm sure we'll cross that bridge soon during the early adopter turn-key phase.

cheers,
shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-12-2006, 01:32 PM   #286
PresaMat
Major
 
PresaMat's Avatar
 
Drives: 67 GT500,69 Boss 429, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston,TX

Posts: 1,170
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Houston Dyno Day?!?!

Hey Shiv,

When can we have a Houston Dyno day?!?!
PresaMat is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST