[ahnh77]

i'm definitely interested....in taking a look at your work...

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi,
Other Stuff
We're thinking about organizing a little meet here in the Blackhawk auto museum. Perhaps next weekend. We think it would be a nice opportunity to grab some good grub, meet everyone, and kick some tires. We'll have our car there and will be offering test drives/rides to anyone who is interested. Anyone?

I think that just about covers it. If you have any more questions, let me know.

Cheers,
shiv

[thinbev]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Pricing
Without have final pricing from our exhaust manufacturer, we hope to see the price of the full 380bhp kit to fall just under $3000. This includes Xede with reversible (no wire cutting) harness, aux. boost control solenoid and fully divorced dual 2.5" exhaust (with secondary cat deletes). Our in-house dyno tuning rate is, as always, $250/hr. Each custom map should take no longer than 1 hour. So if you only need a 91oct map, expect 1 hour of tuning. If you need a 91 oct map and a 100oct map, expect up to 2 hours of tuning. Of course, valet maps or fuel economy maps don't require dyno tuning.

Shiv, could you give us more details on the Valet Map, Fuel Economy Map, and the Performance Map w/o the exhaust.

Thanks!

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Shiv,

What's the est. price if you just want the Xede (shipped to another state)? Do you think you'll have reduced "introductory" or "Forum member" pricing for out-of-state customers as well, before the offical Xede release? I take it that just adding the Xede is possible without the whole exhaust system and custom maps kit and that the Xede alone will also add significant power gains w/o all the extras. Thanks.

The Xede alone will make power. However, one of the things about tuning its that it's always better to extract power from more than one area. Trying to make more power simply from ECU tuning deeply right into your margin of safety. It's doable, there is no doubt in my mind that adressing both the exhaust issue and the Xede will be better for the car. The idea of the exhaust is to relieve the engine of exhaust backpressure which is one of the biggest contributors of thermal stress and knock. With backpressure alleviated, we can take safey take advantage of things by tuning fuel/timing/boost more aggressively. Without improving the operating environment of the engine (by reducing backpressure, increasing octane or improving charge cooling), trying to tune things up can be tricky. That said, we will still offer Xede-only packages for those who simply cannot upgrade their exhaust for whatever reason. But probably not for a little while. We'll need to put the stock exhaust back on our car and do some more long term testing. As for price, expect the Xede alone to cost around $1300 with the harness and aux boost control solenoid.

Cheers,
Shiv

[sstarch1]

Have you guys thought of a cever design for the XEDE switch (like the ashtray..or anything else)?

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The Xede alone will make power. However, one of the things about tuning its that it's always better to extract power from more than one area. Trying to make more power simply from ECU tuning deeply right into your margin of safety. It's doable, there is no doubt in my mind that adressing both the exhaust issue and the Xede will be better for the car. The idea of the exhaust is to relieve the engine of exhaust backpressure which is one of the biggest contributors of thermal stress and knock. With backpressure alleviated, we can take safey take advantage of things by tuning fuel/timing/boost more aggressively. Without improving the operating environment of the engine (by reducing backpressure, increasing octane or improving charge cooling), trying to tune things up can be tricky. That said, we will still offer Xede-only packages for those who simply cannot upgrade their exhaust for whatever reason. But probably not for a little while. We'll need to put the stock exhaust back on our car and do some more long term testing. As for price, expect the Xede alone to cost around $1300 with the harness and aux boost control solenoid.

Cheers,
Shiv

Thanks for your response. The reason I asked about that is b/c my car will be leased (for only 30 months), and I'm not interested in doing major mods, only to have to worry about them or remove them at lease turn-in. However, if the Xede alone will add, say another 30+ HP, it may be worthwhile, even if I have to remove it (I take it that it's relatively easy to remove) before turning the car in.

Also, one other question -- from your knowledge of the past, how will the Xede (as a standalone mod) compare with an updated performace chip from Dinan (again, another standalone mod w/o changing the exhaust, etc.)? I'm assuming you know a bit about what Dinan has done in the past to the BMW 3er's chip to increase power. Thanks again.

[AHY]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

This includes Xede with reversible (no wire cutting) harness, aux. boost control solenoid and fully divorced dual 2.5" exhaust (with secondary cat deletes).

More info in why your decided for a 2.5" rather than a 3".

[shiv@vishnu]

Shiv do you think theres enough space on the engine to put bigger turbos or an intercooler later on? (defenetly not now)

There is certainly enough space for larger turbos. It will involve casting new exhaust manifolds but its certainly doable. Although I'm not sure how many people will be looking to make over ~400bhp on pump gas. Bigger turbos start to make more sense on race gas when you have the ability to run the kind of boost they are capable of supporting. On pump gas, I'd be surprised if they offered much more power than stock. And they will certainly be laggier. And unless built with similar material as the stock turbos, they wont be as robust.

Have you guys thought of a clever design for the XEDE switch (like the ashtray..or anything else)?

I don't know about clever but we do have some ideas We're thinking of just casting new ashtry inserts with an integrated switch in LED. I just have to look at how easy it would be to route the two necessary wires from under the hood, to the ashtray.

Thanks for your response. The reason I asked about that is b/c my car will be leased (for only 30 months), and I'm not interested in doing major mods, only to have to worry about them or remove them at lease turn-in. However, if the Xede alone will add, say another 30+ HP, it may be worthwhile, even if I have to remove it (I take it that it's relatively easy to remove) before turning the car in.

There is nothing at major about upgrading the cat-back exhaust. You can easily put the factory exhaust back on later if you choose to for whatever reason. There are no seals to break or locks to crack Just a few bolts and voila.

Also, one other question -- from your knowledge of the past, how will the Xede (as a standalone mod) compare with an updated performace chip from Dinan (again, another standalone mod w/o changing the exhaust, etc.)? I'm assuming you know a bit about what Dinan has done in the past to the BMW 3er's chip to increase power. Thanks again.

I've met Steve before. In fact, he was even nice enough to give me a tour of his Morgan Hill facility last year. It was very impressive. He's actually a very good friend of our very friend and test driver, Paul Gerrard. But to tell the truth, I'm really not that familiar with his products. I'm sure whatever he comes out with will be safe and stable.

Originally Posted by AHY

More info in why your decided for a 2.5" rather than a 3".

Because 3" is overkill. There are two separate exhaust systems on the car. As such, each system is asked to support 1/2 of total horsepower. So if we're making 380bhp, each exhaust system is only being asked to flow 190bhp worth of exhaust flow. That being the case, even 2.5" is a bit on the big side. All you will be gaining with going bigger is exhaust noise, in my opinion. Plus, trying get two 3" pipes running side-by-side down the transmission tunnel without rubbing against anything or banging around during cornering is tough. The stock exhaust is miserable being it is excessively bent and heavily crushed in many locations. The secondary cats also introduce a bunch of backpressure.

Cheers,
shiv

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Because 3" is overkill. There are two separate exhaust systems on the car. As such, each system is asked to support 1/2 of total horsepower. So if we're making 380bhp, each exhaust system is only being asked to flow 190bhp worth of exhaust flow. That being the case, even 2.5" is a bit on the big side. All you will be gaining with going bigger is exhaust noise, in my opinion. Plus, trying get two 3" pipes running side-by-side down the transmission tunnel without rubbing against anything or banging around during cornering is tough.

-shiv

^WHS
Also bigger can cool the exhaust gasses & reduce velocity.

[sstarch1]

Yeah, get that Chevy Camaro exhaust sound out of here. Good work shiv, i love the idea of a ashtray switch.

Absolutely cannot wait.

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by NaViT

VIDEOS!!! =) good job shiv!

Ok!!



http://www.vishnutuning.com/Files/Vishnu%20BMW.mov

Note: The video was taken on the way to the 24hrs of LeMons endurance race on a flat road with 2 passengers, a trunk full of racing tools and a tank full of 91oct from Valero. So it's safe to say that it represents the lowest common denominator as far as performance goes. Still, 0-100mph should be around 10sec.

enjoy,
shiv

[PresaMat]

Shiv,

Do you think you will be squeezing much more power with the mandrel exhaust etc compared to the last dyno you posted? Im very excited for the products but am just curious what you think the average final HP to be. Thanks!

Mat

PS. YAY! for the video

[BoostedBMW]

Shiv, I have been following this thread, and you have made some nice progress with your tuning. Have you thought about developing an intake also? I'm not concerned so much for power since gains would likely be minimal, but more for sound. I'm just wondering how an intake would have an effect on the tune if you were to add one later. Also, i'm assuming that an out of state customer that has 93 octane gas should expect around 330whp from the exede/exhaust without a custom tune, correct? Keep up the good work!

[anidjare]

Shiv:

When you say 380 hp, is that at the wheels or crank?

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by anidjare

Shiv:

When you say 380 hp, is that at the wheels or crank?

When i say bhp, it is crank hp. When i say whp, it is wheel hp. I don't think I ever say just hp because it can get ambiguous

-shiv

[jerrygarcia]

shiv, what about the valet map?

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by jerrygarcia

shiv, what about the valet map?

It'll be slower than stock. How much slower? I'm not sure. I'll basically make it run minimum boost, retarded timing and very rich AFR. I could do things such as induce a fuel cut above 4000rpm but that would be logged as a trouble code which is something we are trying to avoid for obvious reasons.

cheers,
shiv

[sstarch1]

Some sort of codec on this movie?

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by PresaMat

Shiv,

Do you think you will be squeezing much more power with the mandrel exhaust etc compared to the last dyno you posted? Im very excited for the products but am just curious what you think the average final HP to be. Thanks!

Mat

PS. YAY! for the video

After looking at it a bit, I really don't expect the product exhaust to make any more power than the current one. There are no even moderately sharp bends in the upgraded exhaust system. If there were, that would be another story. And with dual 2.5" pipes with straight-through mufflers, backpressure at the power levels we are talking about is as close to zero as we can hope to get.

Shiv

[thinbev]

Shiv, I'm interested in that fuel economy map. I drive most of the time very normaly and would like to get the best mileage possible out of my 335i. When I crave a little more "umph" I would like to press that switch in my ash tray and get that 380 hp.

Could you please tell us what exactly what the Xede will do to the car when it's on a fuel economy map?

Thanks and nice work!

[ericash]

Shiv,

I live in NY, so if I were to buy the 380hp package (exhaust, xede) would I need tuning or will it be set up, from you, for my 335 sedan??

Would the 93 octane gas here effect the tune??

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by thinbev

Shiv, I'm interested in that fuel economy map. I drive most of the time very normaly and would like to get the best mileage possible out of my 335i. When I crave a little more "umph" I would like to press that switch in my ash tray and get that 380 hp.

Could you please tell us what exactly what the Xede will do to the car when it's on a fuel economy map?

Thanks and nice work!

The fuel economy map, does almost the same things as the 380bhp map when it comes to maximizing fuel consumption. Both maps bump up timing and target learner A/F ratios during cruise/low load conditions. The only difference is that the 380bhp map builds boost at lower throttle angles. Which means that it feels much more "eager" to get up and go. As a result, it is more eager to consume fuel. If drive very casually (prolonged cruising), both the 380bhp map and the fuel economy map will deliver the same mpg. I've logged as much as 34-35mpg during extended highway cruise on the 380bhp map, FWIW.

I live in NY, so if I were to buy the 380hp package (exhaust, xede) would I need tuning or will it be set up, from you, for my 335 sedan??

Would the 93 octane gas here effect the tune??

You will not need any additional tuning. While custom tuning will always help to some degree, the car should have no problem making the advertised hp without custom tuning. Especially on 93oct fuels. The only question in my mind is whether the exhaust will fit on a sedan since we have only tested it on a coupe. I'm sure we'll cross that bridge soon during the early adopter turn-key phase.

cheers,
shiv

[PresaMat]

Hey Shiv,

When can we have a Houston Dyno day?!?!